This is especially true given that there is NO tablet that can run a
completely free operating system. Only desktop and laptop machines
This is not quite true. The options are very limited and in some cases
you cannot use all the hardware (often the 3D acceleration) but there
Theres the forthcoming PengPod (www.pengpod.com). I'm not 100% sure
that its entirely free, but it sounds as though it may be.
On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 7:02 PM, Richard Stallman r...@gnu.org wrote:
This is especially true given that there is NO tablet that can run a
completely free
On Thu, 2012-11-15 at 18:31 -0500, Richard Stallman wrote:
...
Anyway, if we want to give freedom to lots of users, it is clear we
need to support mobile computers and do a good job for them. Thus,
the basic goal of GNOME 3 is an important one, even a necessary one.
First: Watch
Hi Philippe,
On 11/29/2012 08:29 PM, Philippe Normand wrote:
when you refer people to a youtube video would you please recommend a
free download script people can use to view it without running nonfree
software?
I don't know what is that nonfree Javascript you mention.
Much Javascript in
I don't know what is that nonfree Javascript you mention.
If you try to use youtube.com with HTML5, you will see that it sends
you JavaScript code. That code does not carry a free software license,
so it is nonfree. (Any program lacking an explicit free license
is nonfree.)
It will
2012/11/28 Jeremy Allison j...@google.com
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 5:15 PM, Liam R E Quin l...@holoweb.net wrote:
On Tue, 2012-11-27 at 17:06 -0800, Jeremy Allison wrote:
Is the GNU system for programmers only ? I doubt that is what you
mean.
I'm sure it isn't.
I know :-), I'm just
- Mensaje original -
De: Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com
Para:
CC: foundation-list@gnome.org
Enviado: Miércoles 28 de noviembre de 2012 3:28
Asunto: Re: GNOME now
On 27 November 2012 19:51, Richard Stallman r...@gnu.org wrote:
When what you're really talking about is GNU
On Tue, 2012-11-27 at 17:22 -0800, Jeremy Allison wrote:
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 5:15 PM, Liam R E Quin l...@holoweb.net wrote:
On Tue, 2012-11-27 at 17:06 -0800, Jeremy Allison wrote:
Is the GNU system for programmers only ? I doubt that is what you
mean.
I'm sure it isn't.
I know
2012/11/28 Bastien Nocera had...@hadess.net
On Tue, 2012-11-27 at 17:22 -0800, Jeremy Allison wrote:
I'm really not worried about programmers desktops - GNU/Linux is so
widespread in the technical fields that this is a battle we are
already doing well in (not as well as I'd like, I'm still
What I took from that is that the freedom to modify your computing
environment is only meaningful in the first degree to programmers.
And if GNOME continues to bury all the configuration in secret corners
without a UI, and even the basic stuff only by an add on (tweak tool)
you'll continue to
digress). The goal we should be aiming for is freedom for all computer
users, and like it or not, the majority of computer uses in the next 5
years will be on phones and tablets.
To pretend otherwise and focus on PC-style devices is trying to gain
traction in a shrinking market, which
hi;
On 28 November 2012 11:02, Alan Cox a...@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk wrote:
What I took from that is that the freedom to modify your computing
environment is only meaningful in the first degree to programmers.
And if GNOME continues to bury all the configuration in secret corners
without a UI,
On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 13:33:26 +
Emmanuele Bassi eba...@gmail.com wrote:
hi;
On 28 November 2012 11:02, Alan Cox a...@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk wrote:
What I took from that is that the freedom to modify your computing
environment is only meaningful in the first degree to programmers.
And
Hi,
On 11/28/2012 02:33 PM, Emmanuele Bassi wrote:
On 28 November 2012 11:02, Alan Cox a...@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk wrote:
And if GNOME continues to bury all the configuration in secret corners
without a UI, and even the basic stuff only by an add on (tweak tool)
you'll continue to fail to empower
hi Dave;
On 28 November 2012 13:57, Dave Neary dne...@gnome.org wrote:
And if GNOME continues to bury all the configuration in secret corners
without a UI, and even the basic stuff only by an add on (tweak tool)
you'll continue to fail to empower users to modify their computing
environment.
On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Emmanuele Bassi eba...@gmail.com wrote:
hi Dave;
On 28 November 2012 13:57, Dave Neary dne...@gnome.org wrote:
And if GNOME continues to bury all the configuration in secret corners
without a UI, and even the basic stuff only by an add on (tweak tool)
you'll
hi;
On 28 November 2012 14:42, Emily Gonyer emilyyr...@gmail.com wrote:
with the first one being the one shipped by default.
Lets be intellectually honest - a command line client editor is *NOT*
user-friendly.
I don't agree at all with this assessment: it depends entirely on the
audience it
Lets be intellectually honest - a command line client editor is *NOT*
user-friendly.
I don't agree at all with this assessment: it depends entirely on the
audience it is targeting.
If the goal is freedom then presumably the goal is freedom for all not
freedom for the special elite who
On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 10:11 AM, Alan Cox a...@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk wrote:
Lets be intellectually honest - a command line client editor is *NOT*
user-friendly.
I don't agree at all with this assessment: it depends entirely on the
audience it is targeting.
If the goal is freedom then
On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 10:26:22AM -0500, Emily Gonyer wrote:
Exactly. This is what most browsers do now as well - they have a
'preferences' with very basic, standard things (much as we have in
settings currently). Then theres a little button for advanced - and
then you get all sorts of
On 28 Nov 2012, at 16:11, Alan Cox a...@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk wrote:
If you look at say a modern digital TV - which is a product that
notoriously has to deal with everyone from the totally tech clueless to
the video nuts who want to hand adjust everything then it is all in the
settings.
Most
On 28 November 2012 09:53, Emmanuele Bassi eba...@gmail.com wrote:
And why can't it be shipped by default? Whats wrong with that?
that is not entirely our decision, considering that GNOME is currently
shipped by distributions downstream of us. the most that GNOME as
project can do is saying
Your TV allows that:
http://prolost.com/blog/2011/3/28/your-new-tv-ruins-movies.html
I don't think we want to compare GNOME to TVs with awful UIs.
There is nothing awful about the TV UI. Look at the facts. The problem
with TV settings is the same as the benchmarketing game in computing - it
GNU/Linux is mostly used on PCs, but we want it to be used on tablets
and phones too. Thus, making GNOME work well on those machines is
useful. However, until the day people prefer to do programming on a
tablet, the desktop will remain important.
Is the GNU system for
We started GNOME so that GNU/Linux would have a 100% free
software desktop environment, which is why the G in GNOME stands for
GNU.
Except that it doesn't. GNOME is not an acronym any more.
The G stands for GNU anyway.
--
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software
This is especially true given that there is NO tablet that can run a
completely free operating system. Only desktop and laptop machines
This is not quite true. The options are very limited and in some cases
you cannot use all the hardware (often the 3D acceleration) but there are
a few such
On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Richard Stallman r...@gnu.org wrote:
This is especially true given that there is NO tablet that can run a
completely free operating system. Only desktop and laptop machines
can do that. Thus, those of us who want to live in freedom need to
avoid tablets.
On Wed, 2012-11-28 at 20:37 +, Alan Cox wrote:
I would not count Gnome3 as usable on such device anyway - it is too
resource hungry even on a typical x86 tablet.
Do you have any evidence of that? My tablet doesn't have a fast graphics
card (integrated Intel on Atom CPU), but certainly not
I enjoyed reading everyone's responses.
And while I agree with Jason that a mailing list is not the best way to
reach a proposal and consensus, I do think it's really important for us to
have this discussion as a project and for everyone to be able to follow
along.
I just have a few thoughts I'd
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 3:15 AM, Stormy Peters stormy.pet...@gmail.comwrote:
* The desktop market is not growing. We can continue to define ourselves
as a desktop but that's not a growing market. I'm not talking about Linux
versus Windows, I'm talking about desktop vs mobile. The average
I'm not talking about Linux
versus Windows,
Linux and Windows are not comparable: Windows is a complete operating
system, but Linux is just a kernel. I think you must have in mind
the rivalry between Windows and the GNU/Linux system.
When what you're really talking about is GNU, please
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 4:51 PM, Richard Stallman r...@gnu.org wrote:
GNU/Linux is mostly used on PCs, but we want it to be used on tablets
and phones too. Thus, making GNOME work well on those machines is
useful. However, until the day people prefer to do programming on a
tablet, the
On Tue, 2012-11-27 at 17:06 -0800, Jeremy Allison wrote:
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 4:51 PM, Richard Stallman r...@gnu.org wrote:
GNU/Linux is mostly used on PCs, but we want it to be used on tablets
and phones too. Thus, making GNOME work well on those machines is
useful. However, until
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 5:15 PM, Liam R E Quin l...@holoweb.net wrote:
On Tue, 2012-11-27 at 17:06 -0800, Jeremy Allison wrote:
Is the GNU system for programmers only ? I doubt that is what you
mean.
I'm sure it isn't.
I know :-), I'm just pointing out that's what it looked like.
The
On 27 November 2012 19:51, Richard Stallman r...@gnu.org wrote:
When what you're really talking about is GNU, please don't call it
Linux -- particularly in the context of a GNU activity such as this
ne. We started GNOME so that GNU/Linux would have a 100% free
software desktop environment,
It is a fact that many people use DRM schemes, but that gives them no
legitimacy. We are trying to convince people to reject them. We MUST
try, not only because DRM denies the users long-established freedoms,
but also because the wide use of DRM works against the adoption of
Why not just include an About GNOME section in System Settings where
we can talk about these sorts of things - about software freedom and
what it means. About DRM and why we don't include tools to allow its
use, and why free formats like OGG are preferable. We could have
This is why we started the DefectiveByDesign.org. I suggest making
GNOME inform users about DefectiveByDesign.org so as to boost the
campaign. (People reading this might want to sign up.)
How do you propose GNOME should inform users?
By displaying the information on the
Consume is not the best word to use as you point out. Some works of
art are expensive and require financing. Most movies or digital games
cost a small fortune to make, for example. DRM may not be the best way
for such works to be financed, but it is a popular way used by many
On Tue, 2012-11-20 at 09:44 -0800, Lefty wrote:
Mr. Stallman thinks [...]
Please let's not have personal attacks on the foundation list.
The GPL does not prohibit making money; it seeks to prohibit people from
profiting by withholding knowledge from others.
Let's get back to the questions of
Why not just include an About GNOME section in System Settings where
we can talk about these sorts of things - about software freedom and
what it means. About DRM and why we don't include tools to allow its
use, and why free formats like OGG are preferable. We could have
multiple tabs: One about
On Tue, 2012-11-20 at 13:38 -0500, Emily Gonyer wrote:
Why not just include an About GNOME section in System Settings
It would be a start, but some down sides might be -
. administrators locking away access to about gnome
. people not thinking to look in a configuration tool for information on
Good point... perhaps make it a seperate app then? Just call it About
GNOME that way anytime you open up the applications over view its the
first listing. Give it a GNOME foot logo, and write it in Python
GTK+3 (or similar basic languages) so its simple to update and edit as
needed.
On Tue, Nov
El 20/11/12 15:26, Liam R E Quin escribió:
Actually I think Richard made a really helpful suggestion - a screen
built in to the desktop that explains the goals. Can the desktop by
default at least have such a document on it for people to read?
Regards, Liam
Hello,
I believe this is indeed a
I think it's a great idea to include an About GNOME in the product.
However, it's more important for us as a project to know what we are doing
and why. If we do the right thing for the audience we are targeting, they
will know what and why.
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Liam R E Quin
Actually I think Richard made a really helpful suggestion - a screen
built in to the desktop that explains the goals. Can the desktop by
default at least have such a document on it for people to read?
One place to put it is part of an introductory first run tutorial which
also explains things
O , 2012-11-20 13:48 -0500, Emily Gonyer rakstīja:
Good point... perhaps make it a seperate app then? Just call it About
GNOME that way anytime you open up the applications over view its the
first listing. Give it a GNOME foot logo, and write it in Python
GTK+3 (or similar basic languages) so
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 1:48 PM, Emily Gonyer emilyyr...@gmail.com wrote:
Good point... perhaps make it a seperate app then? Just call it About
GNOME that way anytime you open up the applications over view its the
first listing. Give it a GNOME foot logo, and write it in Python
GTK+3 (or
RMS:
On 11/17/12 07:53 PM, Richard Stallman wrote:
Tools that use non-free technologies like Skype or
Vonage are not just popular, but a requirement for many people who
pay
for such services. How many average people would purchase a device
Another big area is applications. We are working on a new suite of
core applications, which are designed in accordance with our
high-level goals (cloud integration is a key objective here).
Anything designed using the term cloud is taking a risk
of encouraging practices that are
I respect that those artists who create digital art should have
mechanisms to own their artwork or to control how it should be
consumed or presented.
DRM is a scheme to restrict the public. This deserves opposition and
defeat -- not respect. DRM additionally attacks the free
RMS:
On 11/19/12 03:32 PM, Richard Stallman wrote:
I respect that those artists who create digital art should have
mechanisms to own their artwork or to control how it should be
consumed or presented.
This is why we started the DefectiveByDesign.org. I suggest making
GNOME
I agree completely. However, that doesn't mean we should make it
purposefully *hard* to get those things. Should we warn people?
Absolutely. They should know what they are doing and be informed. But
that doesn't mean we need to make it hard, and certainly not on
purpose.
On Sat, Nov 17, 2012
I agree completely. However, that doesn't mean we should make it
purposefully *hard* to get those things. Should we warn people?
Absolutely. They should know what they are doing and be informed. But
that doesn't mean we need to make it hard, and certainly not on
purpose.
The
Tools that use non-free technologies like Skype or
Vonage are not just popular, but a requirement for many people who
pay
for such services. How many average people would purchase a device
that did not support such tools?
Is this a real issue?
Hey Benjamin,
Benjamin Otte o...@gnome.org wrote:
Peteris Krisjanis pecisk at gmail.com writes:
I think we are in same business as Apple - we are trying to offer
unified user experience. Difference between us and Apple though is that
(in my opinion) most of us strongly believe that
We are in the business of challenging the status quo in free software.
That is a strange goal -- in effect, it aims for change for the sake of change.
Why should change as such be considered a virtue?
--
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation
51 Franklin St
Boston MA 02110
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 9:10 AM, Seif Lotfy s...@lotfy.com wrote:
So many different point of views and ideas in the community that are
not well discussed. The first thing that pops up in my head is GNOME
OS. But then I am kinda lost. Maybe this is something we need to
discuss here on the
Tools that use non-free technologies like Skype or
Vonage are not just popular, but a requirement for many people who pay
for such services. How many average people would purchase a device
that did not support such tools?
Is this a real issue? On a free operating system,
Richard:
On 11/16/12 07:12 PM, Richard Stallman wrote:
Tools that use non-free technologies like Skype or
Vonage are not just popular, but a requirement for many people who pay
for such services. How many average people would purchase a device
that did not support such
I don't really have a clear answer for an all-encompassing vision and
roadmap, but I may offer my blog post from this summer as a starting
point:
http://jeff.ecchi.ca/blog/2012/08/05/staring-into-the-axis-abyss-the-railgun-map/
It tries to frame things from an ecosystem standpoint and the
The overarching aspiration behind GNOME 3, in my opinion, is to create
a free user experience that is fit for the contemporary world. That
means addressing the changing needs of users, as well as changes in
hardware. It also means doing better than what we did before: UX
design has got a lot
Good points Brian :)
I like the last part this advanced UNIX-hacker type does not seem to
be the primary user GNOME is focusing on anymore.
May I ask you however to try to reply to each question with one
sentence if possible so I can create a small overview able chart
later?
Cheers
Seif
On Thu,
Seif:
On 11/15/12 03:31 AM, Seif Lotfy wrote:
Good points Brian :)
I like the last part this advanced UNIX-hacker type does not seem to
be the primary user GNOME is focusing on anymore.
For better or worse, I would say that most Solaris GNOME users probably
fall either in the advanced
T , 2012.11.14. 17:10 +0100, Seif Lotfy rakstīja:
Quoting Stormy Peters comment on a recent blog post concerning GNOME:
We haven’t shared our vision or our roadmap for the future. Where’s
the product going? What problem are we trying to solve? How are we
going to do that?
I think we are in
T , 2012.11.14. 22:37 -0600, Brian Cameron rakstīja:
Seif:
On 11/15/12 03:31 AM, Seif Lotfy wrote:
Good points Brian :)
I like the last part this advanced UNIX-hacker type does not seem to
be the primary user GNOME is focusing on anymore.
For better or worse, I would say that most
Brian Cameron brian.came...@oracle.com wrote:
...
For better or worse, I would say that most Solaris GNOME users probably
fall either in the advanced UNIX-hacker category, or the type of user
who uses a Solaris GNOME desktop in a very focused or controlled
environment such as a kiosk or call
On Wed, 2012-11-14 at 18:26 -0600, Brian Cameron wrote:
this advanced
UNIX-hacker type does not seem to be the primary user GNOME is focusing
on anymore.
An open source environment needs to attract four main types of people if
it's going to remain viable -
1. programmers, to work on it
2.
First up, I know my post is likely out of order, but I'm not sure how
to correct that... I'm reading and replying to the first post by Seif
in the archive... Anyhow..
So Seif's three questions were/are:
[1] Where’s the product going?
[2] What problem are we trying to solve?
[3] How are we going
Peteris Krisjanis pecisk at gmail.com writes:
I think we are in same business as Apple - we are trying to offer
unified user experience. Difference between us and Apple though is that
(in my opinion) most of us strongly believe that openness/freedom and
consistent user experience (trough user
What you say is not a vision. That's a what, not a why. Also, are we in
the same business as Apple? Apple is in the business of challenging the
status quo and thinking differently. ($:04 in the video) Are we?
WHY are we doing GNOME?
We are in the business of challenging the status quo in free
I am loving the replies until now. But can we try to keep this
focused. Can we try to answer the three questions with three short
answers.
[1] Where’s the product going?
[2] What problem are we trying to solve?
[3] How are we going to do that?
On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 8:54 PM, Debarshi Ray
WHY are we doing GNOME?
The reason we started GNOME is to make it possible to have a graphical
desktop without nonfree software. KDE existed, but had a fatal flaw:
it depended on Qt which at the time was nonfree.
Who are we selling it to?
The question is important but the word selling
Allan:
On 11/15/12 06:46 AM, Allan Day wrote:
Brian Cameronbrian.came...@oracle.com wrote:
But I think the GNOME community has been
conscious that platforms like Solaris were being left behind as
decisions were being made.
That really depends on how you define the needs of the advanced
Peteris:
On 11/15/12 06:36 AM, Peteris Krisjanis wrote:
T , 2012.11.14. 22:37 -0600, Brian Cameron rakstīja:
On 11/15/12 03:31 AM, Seif Lotfy wrote:
But is there any strong reasons why Oracle won't chime in and support
further development of GNOME Panel (let's call it GNOME Classic - that
Lets Call all questions as:
[1] Where’s the product going?
[2] What problem are we trying to solve?
[3] How are we going to do that?
Then lets answer as my ones:
[1] Merge Mobility user interface with the desktop. Making Easy and
Productivity to your work and life style. Create a productive
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 8:10 AM, Seif Lotfy s...@lotfy.com wrote:
Quoting Stormy Peters comment on a recent blog post concerning GNOME:
We haven’t shared our vision or our roadmap for the future. Where’s
the product going? What problem are we trying to solve? How are we
going to do that?
I think one of the most significant challenges for any free desktop
that is trying to reach the average user is how to deal with the fact
that most people like using computers, tablets, smartphones, etc. to
interact with non-free multimedia. Not just viewing movies and
listening to music, but
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