Hi,
I was wondering about the possibility of FreeBSD to provide an official
supported graphical environment.
UNIX (so FreeBSD) never had standard graphical environment or graphical
environment at all.
Xorg is standard in FreeBSD and most unices for graphics hardware support.
There are
This idea would precisely serve the purpose of removing this need and
eliminate redundancy of toolkits, when it comes to essential utilities
that FreeBSD would want to provide, like devices automounting,
partitioning (taking advantage of the system features) and so on... but
it's just an idea, of
regard GUI as a third-party bonus.
This is according to *your* use cases though. There are many of us who
do not put X - or any graphical environment - on our FreeBSD servers.
and there are many of us that do not put any graphical environment while
using Xorg, making actually productive one.
want to develop GUI applications on FreeBSD, supporting features as
panel integration, reliable messageboxes and other trivial things, on
other operating systems, that are apparently unavailable on UNIX without
pulling in significant portions of lots of environments.
this make sense. but it is
Replying more to the Wayland comments, yes..
FreeBSD/NetBSD/OpenBSD need to implement the Wayland `protocol`
because xorg-server development is slowly being killed over time, but
that's the main reason i already frozen package tree, so i will be able to
use Xorg in 5 years or more.
From a programmer's point of view, GUI is a protocol, a graphical
language. It's true. But users don't care. Users don't care how their
graphical commands are being implemented.
Such users don't use FreeBSD, or at least doesn't have admin rights.
___
actually come out of it). I then faced the problem that there are lots
of GUI toolkits, lots of scenarios to take into account, lots of desktop
You cannot change it. There are lots of GUI toolking and none are really
consistent. None are part of FreeBSD and none will.
If you want to write
To be succinct: this is not OSX/Windows. True Unix and Unix clones can
be decoupled from a desktop environment enough that forcing everyone
to have one choice for desktop user experience doesn't make sense, and
the fact that there isn't a common GUI development toolkit (GTK, QT,
etc) encourages
make a GUI application for FreeBSD? You are asking yourself what desktop
environment will work for sure on FreeBSD? There you have it, Blah DE
works just well and is perfectly documented.
use any X toolking you want (well almost, i recommend avoiding Qt) and use
it properly without assuming
Can you perhaps read the whole thread and organise your thoughts into just
one email?
Chris
On 18 Sep 2012 09:09, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl
wrote:
To be succinct: this is not OSX/Windows. True Unix and Unix clones can
be decoupled from a desktop environment enough that
I spent years using Linux before I truly appreciated the key difference between a desktop
environment and a graphical environment. Probably because everyone had to have a
desktop environment.
I define graphical environment as simply X11 and a window manager.
good that you as first one
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 09:54:41 +0200 (CEST)
From: Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl
Actually i don't see any real future for wayland and linux. Linux is
already pushed out by *BSD on the professional side, and by
Are you mad?
Have you looked at
desktop environment or similar ideas?
Tell you what:
When you have at least 75% of the user population of FreeBSD agreeing
on which window manager we should offer as the default, we can talk
about this.
so if 76% would decide that FreeBSD should have KDE included in system -
it means that
Hi,
On Tue, 18 Sep 2012 10:39:43 +0200 (CEST)
Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote:
desktop environment or similar ideas?
Tell you what:
When you have at least 75% of the user population of FreeBSD
agreeing on which window manager we should offer as the default, we
In message alpine.bsf.2.00.1209181004510.44...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl, Wojci
ech Puchar writes:
That's all true. But do anyone understand why there is still so much
pressure for every open source OS and specifically *BSD on default
desktop environment or similar ideas?
Tell you what:
When
In message alpine.bsf.2.00.1209181039140.44...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl, Wojci
ech Puchar writes:
desktop environment or similar ideas?
Tell you what:
When you have at least 75% of the user population of FreeBSD agreeing
on which window manager we should offer as the default, we can talk
On 18 Sep 2012 09:41, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl
wrote:
desktop environment or similar ideas?
Tell you what:
When you have at least 75% of the user population of FreeBSD agreeing
on which window manager we should offer as the default, we can talk
about this.
so if
Am 17.09.2012 21:52, schrieb Lorenzo Cogotti:
Even the userbase/time spent developing ratio matters. What also matters
is the interest that a system shows in something, I think it's obvious
that FreeBSD can't get much attention as a desktop system if no effort
is put into it. It is not a bad
In message blu0-smtp510b16745b704c714268e2d5...@phx.gbl, Lorenzo Cogotti writ
es:
Hi,
I was wondering about the possibility of FreeBSD to provide an official
supported graphical environment.
We already do: It's called X11 :-)
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:35 AM, Lorenzo Cogotti miciam...@hotmail.it wrote:
Hi,
I was wondering about the possibility of FreeBSD to provide an official
supported graphical environment.
Currently FreeBSD doesn't provide any standard desktop environment, this
means that, in a way much
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote:
In message blu0-smtp510b16745b704c714268e2d5...@phx.gbl, Lorenzo Cogotti
writ
es:
Hi,
I was wondering about the possibility of FreeBSD to provide an official
supported graphical environment.
We already do: It's
Il 17/09/2012 17:42, Poul-Henning Kamp ha scritto:
In message blu0-smtp510b16745b704c714268e2d5...@phx.gbl, Lorenzo Cogotti
writ
es:
Hi,
I was wondering about the possibility of FreeBSD to provide an official
supported graphical environment.
We already do: It's called X11 :-)
(sending
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Zhihao Yuan lich...@gmail.com wrote:
I definitely agree with this. Sun has a book, UNIX Essentials
featuring the Solaris..., and GUI takes a big part in the book. A
default GUI is essential to a modern UNIX. FreeBSD can no longer
regard GUI as a third-party
In message CAGsORuAnDs_E=l747+tp95nxjxdonnsqfvfco+xd2hjsj-u...@mail.gmail.com
, Zhihao Yuan writes:
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk
wrote:
In message blu0-smtp510b16745b704c714268e2d5...@phx.gbl, Lorenzo Cogotti
writ
es:
Hi,
I was wondering about the
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@freebsd.org wrote:
In message
CAGsORuAnDs_E=l747+tp95nxjxdonnsqfvfco+xd2hjsj-u...@mail.gmail.com
, Zhihao Yuan writes:
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk
wrote:
In message
On 09/17/12 11:14, Lorenzo Cogotti wrote:
Il 17/09/2012 17:42, Poul-Henning Kamp ha scritto:
In message blu0-smtp510b16745b704c714268e2d5...@phx.gbl, Lorenzo Cogotti writ
es:
Hi,
I was wondering about the possibility of FreeBSD to provide an official
supported graphical environment.
We
In message cagsorub4yd8rknlrwmctx16idohwjkd1rnyarb98nwn+pwv...@mail.gmail.com
, Zhihao Yuan writes:
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@freebsd.org wrote:
My suggest was 100% serious: Assume X11 _is_ the graphical
environment, pick a toolkit which is written to work with
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Lars Engels lars.eng...@0x20.net wrote:
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:00:21AM -0500, Zhihao Yuan wrote:
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:35 AM, Lorenzo Cogotti miciam...@hotmail.it
wrote:
Hi,
I was wondering about the possibility of FreeBSD to provide an official
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:28 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@freebsd.org wrote:
In message
cagsorub4yd8rknlrwmctx16idohwjkd1rnyarb98nwn+pwv...@mail.gmail.com
, Zhihao Yuan writes:
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@freebsd.org wrote:
My suggest was 100% serious: Assume X11
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:00:21AM -0500, Zhihao Yuan wrote:
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:35 AM, Lorenzo Cogotti miciam...@hotmail.it
wrote:
Hi,
I was wondering about the possibility of FreeBSD to provide an official
supported graphical environment.
Currently FreeBSD doesn't provide any
Il 17/09/2012 18:20, Tom Evans ha scritto:
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Zhihao Yuan lich...@gmail.com wrote:
I definitely agree with this. Sun has a book, UNIX Essentials
featuring the Solaris..., and GUI takes a big part in the book. A
default GUI is essential to a modern UNIX. FreeBSD
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 8:35 AM, Lorenzo Cogotti miciam...@hotmail.it wrote:
Hi,
...
Replying more to the Wayland comments, yes..
FreeBSD/NetBSD/OpenBSD need to implement the Wayland `protocol`
because xorg-server development is slowly being killed over time, but
unfortunately that work is
On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 11:40:33 -0500
Zhihao Yuan lich...@gmail.com wrote:
GUI is a concept. People can use WM or DE as their GUIs. X11 is not
usable from a user's point of view, so it's out of the question. So
far, your statement Assume X11 _is_ the graphical environment is
already nonsense.
As
What are you trying to achieve?
Are you trying to write a set of utilities for FreeBSD that are GUI in
nature? And you'd like to know which toolkit is blessed for a
consistent, integrated feel and development environment?
Adrian
___
From a programmer's point of view, GUI is a protocol, a graphical
language. It's true. But users don't care. Users don't care how their
graphical commands are being implemented.
Well, let's make it more straightforward. I hope people can agree with
this: a default, officially supported modern
Il 17/09/2012 19:26, Adrian Chadd ha scritto:
What are you trying to achieve?
Are you trying to write a set of utilities for FreeBSD that are GUI in
nature? And you'd like to know which toolkit is blessed for a
consistent, integrated feel and development environment?
Adrian
Right now I
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Lorenzo Cogotti miciam...@hotmail.it wrote:
Il 17/09/2012 19:26, Adrian Chadd ha scritto:
What are you trying to achieve?
Right now I was interested in creating a desktop oriented automounter,
in order to experiment with devd (I don't know if something useful
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 1:05 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote:
In message
CAGsORuBqiodwt_EmVqB+fO=tgOVeZOERopSE2y=mla8jp6z...@mail.gmail.com
, Zhihao Yuan writes:
Well, let's make it more straightforward. I hope people can agree with
this: a default, officially supported modern
In message CAGsORuBqiodwt_EmVqB+fO=tgOVeZOERopSE2y=mla8jp6z...@mail.gmail.com
, Zhihao Yuan writes:
Well, let's make it more straightforward. I hope people can agree with
this: a default, officially supported modern desktop environment is
essential to FreeBSD.
No, it is not.
It would certainly
On 17 Sep 2012 17:22, Tom Evans tevans...@googlemail.com wrote:
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Zhihao Yuan lich...@gmail.com wrote:
I definitely agree with this. Sun has a book, UNIX Essentials
featuring the Solaris..., and GUI takes a big part in the book. A
default GUI is essential to
I spent years using Linux before I truly appreciated the key difference between
a desktop environment and a graphical environment. Probably because
everyone had to have a desktop environment.
I define graphical environment as simply X11 and a window manager. That's all
you need to run
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Zhihao Yuan lich...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 1:05 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk
wrote:
In message
CAGsORuBqiodwt_EmVqB+fO=tgOVeZOERopSE2y=mla8jp6z...@mail.gmail.com
, Zhihao Yuan writes:
Well, let's make it more straightforward.
Il 17/09/2012 20:32, Garrett Cooper ha scritto:
*gathers breath for really tangential/OT rant*
joking
Sounds like we have someone volunteering to write a chapter in the
handbook and do some X11 development to make Gnome, KDE, XFCE, LXDE,
Fluxbox, [...], or etc work better on FreeBSD!
Am 17.09.2012 17:35, schrieb Lorenzo Cogotti:
Hi,
I was wondering about the possibility of FreeBSD to provide an official
supported graphical environment.
Currently FreeBSD doesn't provide any standard desktop environment, this
means that, in a way much similar to Linux, a developer cannot
| Hi,
| I was wondering about the possibility of FreeBSD to provide an official
| supported graphical environment.
What i really miss compared to 4.* and 5.3 (and compared to NetBSD
and OpenBSD) is that there is a single package with a known name
that can be downloaded and unpacked and you
Am 17.09.2012 19:51, schrieb Lorenzo Cogotti:
Il 17/09/2012 19:26, Adrian Chadd ha scritto:
What are you trying to achieve?
Are you trying to write a set of utilities for FreeBSD that are GUI in
nature? And you'd like to know which toolkit is blessed for a
consistent, integrated feel and
Il 17/09/2012 21:13, Matthias Andree ha scritto:
What is the particular problem? All major toolkits ultimately talk X11,
and most applications that I have seen will work in any desktop environment.
Working with any desktop environments is different than working well,
taking full advantage of
Am 17.09.12 17:42, schrieb Poul-Henning Kamp:
In message blu0-smtp510b16745b704c714268e2d5...@phx.gbl, Lorenzo Cogotti
writ
es:
Hi,
I was wondering about the possibility of FreeBSD to provide an official
supported graphical environment.
We already do: It's called X11 :-)
and for the
Mike Meyer m...@mired.org http://www.mired.org/
mwm?
Why! It's my preferred WM,
part of x11-toolkits/open-motif.
Talk about coincidences!
___
freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 12:01 PM, Lorenzo Cogotti miciam...@hotmail.it wrote:
Il 17/09/2012 20:32, Garrett Cooper ha scritto:
*gathers breath for really tangential/OT rant*
joking
Sounds like we have someone volunteering to write a chapter in the
handbook and do some X11 development to make
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Steffen Daode sdao...@gmail.com wrote:
| Hi,
| I was wondering about the possibility of FreeBSD to provide an official
| supported graphical environment.
What i really miss compared to 4.* and 5.3 (and compared to NetBSD
and OpenBSD) is that there is a
Lorenzo Cogotti miciam...@hotmail.it wrote:
Il 17/09/2012 20:32, Garrett Cooper ha scritto:
*gathers breath for really tangential/OT rant*
joking
Sounds like we have someone volunteering to write a chapter in the
handbook and do some X11 development to make Gnome, KDE, XFCE, LXDE,
Fluxbox,
Il 17/09/2012 22:55, Mike Meyer ha scritto:
You requested that this work be done. Then you did it again in several
places, the first one being here:
[...]
Maybe I did (as you might notice my English is not very good :) ), but I
thought it was clear that I'd like to cooperate in this.
-Original Message-
From: owner-freebsd-hack...@freebsd.org
[mailto:owner-freebsd-hack...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Zhihao Yuan
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 1:54 PM
To: Mike Meyer
Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Providing a default graphical environment on FreeBSD
-Original Message-
From: owner-freebsd-hack...@freebsd.org
[mailto:owner-freebsd-hack...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Steffen Daode
Nurpmeso
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 3:51 PM
To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Providing a default graphical environment on FreeBSD
| Hi
On 17 September 2012 10:53, Zhihao Yuan lich...@gmail.com wrote:
From a programmer's point of view, GUI is a protocol, a graphical
language. It's true. But users don't care. Users don't care how their
graphical commands are being implemented.
Well, let's make it more straightforward. I hope
And then, a modern GUI should take care of Wifi, automount,
No thanks, seperate issues.
and many
things can't be done with a single WM. That's why I said twm is not a
modern GUI. So far, any questions?
TWM is not a modern window manager, but is small light, comes
with X11. I'm happy we
Hi,
On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 17:35:40 +0200
Lorenzo Cogotti miciam...@hotmail.it wrote:
I was wondering about the possibility of FreeBSD to provide an
official supported graphical environment.
for taking resources away from FreeBSD itself? I do not see the need
for this as long there is a single
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