Re: [FRIAM] Seminal Papers in Complexity

2007-06-18 Thread Günther Greindl
Hello Russell, Sum of the parts is more metaphoric than literal. IMHO, the key to the kingdom is emergence, and nonlinearity is only necessary to I used to throw around the word emergence around until I noticed that I used it there where I did not understand what was really going on, like in:

Re: [FRIAM] Seminal Papers in Complexity

2007-06-18 Thread Russell Standish
Yes, there is an enormous amount of confused writings about emergence, but no this doesn't mean emergence isn't a well-defined and meaningful term. I think the best introduction to this topic is my paper on complexity and emergence, precisely because it is concise and to the point. However, there

Re: [FRIAM] Apologies for last post...

2007-06-18 Thread Robert Holmes
OK - I'll bite. What does a RMAR think? I ask, because your last question to me at Wedtech (So Robert, ARE you a materialist?) sent me scurrying to my reference books from which I'm only just emerging and - apparently - I'm a glutton for punishment. And in answer to your question, yes I am; in

Re: [FRIAM] reductionism

2007-06-18 Thread Russell Standish
I would contend that this criticism may well be valid for certain forms literary criticism, but only when the author is unaware of the precise mathematical or scientific definitions of the terms. I have seen the terms nonlinear, reductionism, emergence and complexity all abused to lend some kind

Re: [FRIAM] Seminal Papers in Complexity

2007-06-18 Thread Phil Henshaw
Doug, Well, I think the better choice is to try to understand why English needs the word 'emerge' to letting us talk about the world. Emerging is appearing from nowhere, or coming out of the shadows or passing through an opening or becoming fully formed. The last one there points to what we

Re: [FRIAM] Apologies for last post...

2007-06-18 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Well, Robert, as it happens the RMAR rant for which I have already apologized, never made it to the list. In the first place I had the devil's own time sending it out of my machine, and by the time I managed to send it to the list, it had magically tripled itself in length, so the List

Re: [FRIAM] Seminal Papers in Complexity

2007-06-18 Thread Russell Standish
I disagree. Some counterexamples. Game of Life is not a growth process. Yet it exhibits clear emergence in the form of gliders. So you supposed connection is one-sided at best. Whilst most growth processes involving interacting particles will produce emergence, if the particles do not interact,

Re: [FRIAM] reductionism

2007-06-18 Thread Phil Henshaw
Glen, I think that's a very consistent argument, and very similar to the one Bohr used as the basis for the Copenhagen convention and dumping Einstein's idea of the physical world. As I recall, the argument was that science is information and so nothing exists for science except what exists as