Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

Marcus , You are quite correct and describe the Hitler type quite well. I never agreed with some of the Nuremberg trial conclusions that wished to attribute all the sins of Nazi Germany on a few maniacs. The truth was that the Germans knew quite well what was happening. The arrival of skinheads

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

Vladimyr writes: < So I cause confusion only because I do not fit into any well established classification system. I bring this up because my experience in life defies most systems which you are attempting to tease apart. Trump may well be a Narcissist and deluded in some traditional manner.

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

To Glen and Marcus, Not so fast gentlemen. You managed to pull apart a few strands using tried assumptions. The Alpha is the most conspicuous personality type commonly encountered in smallish sample sizes, <10,000 individuals. Once when lounging about in the grad students lounge a group of

Re: [FRIAM] [SPAM] Re: [[Narcissism Again]again]

Thank you for forwarding this Owen, I didn’t receive the original. > So. Let me just share one thought. I have said a hundred times that I think > the great achievement of the Right in my life time has been to problematize > (Ugh!) the Deweyan consensus of the 1950’s One of the elements of

Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]

No problem, Marcus, I think Friam's thread-shortening algorithm cuts off at two, so I wanted to make sure that I had the last word. No Nietszchean, I. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University

Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]

< What nick said was, "[For such a person as trump,] there is no truth of the matter, there is only the exercise of power." > I was capturing the essential bit. Nothing good ever comes from attribution. Marcus FRIAM Applied

Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2YLS80Nmls On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 8:31 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: > By the way, all. > > > > What nick said was, “[For such a person as trump,] there is no truth of > the matter, there is only the exercise of power.” > > > > Nick,

Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]

By the way, all. What nick said was, "[For such a person as trump,] there is no truth of the matter, there is only the exercise of power." Nick, himself, is irrationally dedicated to there being a truth, and that, with effort and good will, people can arrive at it. [signed] Nick

Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]

- Anti-social behavior. Trump University, grabbing "women". - Sadism. Mocking disabled person - Aggressiveness. Kicking people out of his rallies. - Paranoia. The press is against me. - Grandiosity. I will be the greatest...Ever. - Entitled. Having affairs during three

Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]

Glen said I hadn't provided enough evidence. Arguing by citing authority I offer: http://bipartisanreport.com/2017/01/27/johns-hopkins-top-psychotherapist-releases-terrifying-diagnosis-of-president-trump/ Frank Frank Wimberly Phone (505) 670-9918 On Jan 27, 2017 7:04 PM, "Nick Thompson"

Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]

Sorry. It’s one of those words I use because I thought everybody ELSE knows what it means. I guess I meant, “To cause what had hitherto been seen as straightforward to be thought of as a problem.” To undermine a consensus. N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and

Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]

Just a thought: Don't emergency rooms have to treat anyone who walks through the door? I recall seeing a *lot* of that when my mom-in-law was in the hospital. These were folks with fairly minor problems like a rash or the flu. And I'm delighted they got care. So all minimizing ACA will do is up

Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]

Nick writes: "There is no truth of the matter; there is only the exercise of power. " [..] "So, if we are going to counter Trump, it cannot be by demonstrating that he lies. It has to be by demonstrating that liars don't win." He's old and nearing the last round of his iterated Prisoner's

Re: [FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]

> > problematize (Ugh!) the Deweyan to see as problematic? On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 5:57 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: > Hi everybody, > > > > I kind of got buried by the list last week, but we seem to keep coming > back to this topic, even when we are talking about

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

Take the test and imagine what Trump would answer if he were being honest. Frank Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz Santa Fe, NM 87505 wimber...@gmail.com wimbe...@cal.berkeley.edu Phone: (505) 995-8715 Cell: (505) 670-9918 -Original Message- From: Friam

[FRIAM] [[Narcissism Again]again]

Hi everybody, I kind of got buried by the list last week, but we seem to keep coming back to this topic, even when we are talking about globalism. So. Let me just share one thought. I have said a hundred times that I think the great achievement of the Right in my life time has been

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

For What It's Worth as I understand it: -It's a spectrum. -Someone can have aspects of both. -How someone recharges is offten a clue what end of this spectrum they're on. For example someone that talks a lot and then feels recharged has some extrovert tendencies. However -Making matters worse is

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

In her book "Neurosis and Human Growth", Karen Horney (Horn-Eye) has chapters on "the self-effacing solution" and "the expansive solution". Both solutions are responses to unconscious, neurotic conflicts. The self-effacing version is introversion-like and the expansive version is

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

OK. I'm sure everyone's tired of my emails by now (and my sim's almost finished). So this is the last for today. I have to consider what you say below in the context of the "manipulationist" conception of causality. You can't sit in the back fo the class watching and making sense. By

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

Right, it's fine for us to be talking about ambiguous concepts... in fact, I'd argue those are the things that need the most discussion. Just for context, since I'm still waiting for my hepatocyte culture simulation to finish, I took this test:

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

“Introversion is often caused by grandiose or exhibitionistic impulses.” For me, I would not say it is not self-inhibition, to, say, stay out of trouble. A simple explanation, like dopamine response sounds right.

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

p.s. I showed my wife, who was a therapist and mental health counselor for many years, a bit of this discussion she says that you are correct, Glen, in that you can't be a NPD sufferer without being insecure. Their behavior is symptomatic of this. "I know more about ISIS than the Generals!

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

Well, this isn't physics or math so any assertion is ambiguous, complicated and uncertain. But...Introversion is often caused by grandiose or exhibitionistic impulses. Once I saw a TV interview in which Barbra Streisand claimed to be a shy introvert. (That's the correct spelling of her name). To

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

No. It seemed to me that you quit the conversation. Of course, I can't be sure you got my last message. But I left off challenging the (especially remote) diagnosis of NPD as purely phenomenological (type 2). And given Nick's idea that recursive explanations are fundamentally different from

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

Some of the most nuanced, useful analyses of people I get from other introverts. I mean, there's a difference between interacting in a particular familiar way, and sitting in the back of the class, meeting room, etc. watching, and making sense of what you see. -Original Message-

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

Sorry, but Trump is not an introvert. It's true that introversion can be caused by extrovert-like impulses. But Trump is a narcissist. I thought I had sent enough evidence. Frsnk Frank Wimberly Phone (505) 670-9918 On Jan 27, 2017 1:43 PM, "gepr" wrote: > Heh, I

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

That diversity means that any (given) introvert may well respect the idea that a low-dimensional connection is at least a connection of some sort, allowing them to choose whether or not another person is a member of some class (e.g. "elites") or not. Hence the know-nothings that are

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

"Of course that raises the question of whether the introverts really _can_ care about anyone other than themselves." Some introverts seek strong connections to tight network of friends (a preference for actual similarity or well-understood differences), some might look at others fearfully and

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

Heh, I shoulda known you wouldn't let that slide. You're right. But any introvert that wants to contribute and the only way to contribute is to get past the vapid (but very real) barriers must be capable of establishing that thin similarity _before_ dialing it back and refining the

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

" But I think that type, that can't be "persuaded" [*] based on low-dimensional similarity and familiarity, has very few members. The real problem is establishing the similarity and familiarity." Most any introvert has had the experience of some patronizing know-nothing `help' them out of

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

And now we have a whole cabinet of billionaires. Thank goodness we are free of those darn elites! From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff Sent: Friday, January 27, 2017 12:44 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

Glen writes: < The more work you have to put in to see a return, to understand what's being said/done, the more likely the author/sender is an "elite". > I've gone to talks where I eventually figure-out that the topic is fairly simple, but I didn't know the hash from the list of historical

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

It's mostly about people who have money and power. They go together. On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 10:18 AM, glen ☣ wrote: > > I remain confused by the concept of "elites". Each one of those listed in > the article is "anti-establishment". Is that what "elites" means? And if

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

OK, maybe. But I think that type, that can't be "persuaded" [*] based on low-dimensional similarity and familiarity, has very few members. The real problem is establishing the similarity and familiarity. H Clinton was not very good at it. B Clinton was. And even when confronting an

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

Marcus wrote: There is type of person that can be persuaded based on low-dimensional similarity and feelings of familiarity. When the Donald complemented his overly long (compensate much?) Red Tie with a Red "gimme cap", it did double duty of covering his embarassing (but surely very

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

< Hm. I suppose it's reasonable to further circumscribe "elites" by saying that it simply _cannot_ have a definite referent. When the particular populist sits down with someone like Hillary Clinton to quaff a pint and eat a hot dog, it's likely Clinton will be either removed as a member of

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

On 01/27/2017 10:17 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > Many Trump voters, e.g. midwest blue collar folks, don't appear to want to > present it as victimhood. They came to expect a standard of living, but it > was no longer sustainable given the evolution of the economy.They want to > believe it

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

< The way you describe it, it sounds like "elites" is yet another aspect of "victimhood". In order to be susceptible to the (purposefully vague) rhetoric, you have to feel like a victim. And you might be especially ripe for the rhetoric if you have _not_ already identified your perpetrator.

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

OK. Cool. So if we go back to Lakoff's idea that at least part of Trump's appeal is his vague use of language, allowing particular audience members more flexibility in their inferences from what Trump said, then there must be

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

< I remain confused by the concept of "elites". > An elite is a symbol for an unknown bad guy. The bad buy exists somewhere at a distance. The elite must have caused me and my kind pain, or ignored me and my pain, because things aren't going well for me.This symbol validates their

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

I remain confused by the concept of "elites". Each one of those listed in the article is "anti-establishment". Is that what "elites" means? And if so, then what does "establishment" mean? To be clear, I'm not asking for any one person's opinion of who is or is not "elite" or what defines

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

I think of "culture is what you take for granted" and you fine yourself a bit taken aback or surprised when your culture stumbles across aspects in other cultures that you *don't* take for granted. Not unpleasant or threatening, just "oh, looka that!". I think about what I called "our" kind of

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

Indeed! ^_^ On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 7:30 AM, Steven A Smith wrote: > Gil - > > The sun just rose here as well, as I read this... I guess Donald's powers > are weaker than he thinks. > > - Steve > > On 1/27/17 7:24 AM, Gillian Densmore wrote: > > For What It's Worth at around

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

Gil - The sun just rose here as well, as I read this... I guess Donald's powers are weaker than he thinks. - Steve On 1/27/17 7:24 AM, Gillian Densmore wrote: For What It's Worth at around 710AM before some meditation on a stunningly nice FridayMorning: It depends. Sounds to me you're

Re: [FRIAM] Globalism in the age of populism? .. & Open Source Software

For What It's Worth at around 710AM before some meditation on a stunningly nice FridayMorning: It depends. Sounds to me you're just geeking out about Social Media That's totally fine. It's pretty cool- or can be.. Keep in mind only certain Geeks are likely to know about or even want to use GitHub