Re: [FRIAM] What is an agent [was: Philosophy and Science}

2023-07-14 Thread Nicholas Thompson
Some examples I like to think about: Waves arrange pebbles on a beach from small to large A puddle maintains its temperature at 32 degrees as long as it has ice in it. The carotid sinus maintains the acidity of the blood by causing us to breath more oxygen when it gets to acid. (I hope I have

Re: [FRIAM] What is an agent [was: Philosophy and Science}

2023-07-14 Thread David Eric Smith
I have had a version of this problem for several years, because I want to start with small-molecule chemistry on early planets, and eventually talk about biospheres full of evolving actors. I have wanted to have a rough category system for how many qualitative kinds of transitions I should

Re: [FRIAM] What is an agent [was: Philosophy and Science}

2023-07-14 Thread Russ Abbott
I'm not sure what "closure to efficient cause" means. I considered using as an example an outdoor light that charges itself (and stays off) during the day and goes on at night. In what important way is that different from a flashlight? They both have energy storage systems (batteries). Does it

Re: [FRIAM] What is an agent [was: Philosophy and Science}

2023-07-14 Thread glen
I'm still attracted to Rosen's closure to efficient cause. Your flashlight example is classified as non-agent (or non-living ... tomayto tomahto) because the efficient cause is open. Now, attach sensor and effector to the flashlight so that it can flick it*self* on when it gets dark and off

[FRIAM] What is an agent [was: Philosophy and Science}

2023-07-14 Thread Russ Abbott
I was recently wondering about the informal distinction we make between things that are agents and things that aren't. For example, I would consider most living things to be agents. I would also consider many computer programs when in operation as agents. The most obvious examples (for me) are

Re: [FRIAM] Philosophy and Science

2023-07-14 Thread Frank Wimberly
>I do suspect that the practice and vocation of philosophy is being altered in the face of things like the development of Category Theory and now LLMs One of Joe Ramsey's colleagues, Steve Awodey, is working on a reformulation of the foundations of mathematics based on category theory. ---

Re: [FRIAM] Philosophy and Science

2023-07-14 Thread Steve Smith
I like the term "epistemic trespass" and generally agree with the idea glen promotes in that regard. My direct experience with *many* experimentalists trained and self-selected as physicists or chemists or materials scientists was that many of them were excellent engineers, computer systems

Re: [FRIAM] Philosophy and Science

2023-07-14 Thread glen
This merely seems like triggered gatekeeping to me. Yeah, sure, working philosophers have skills and behaviors working [insert your favorite other clique] don't have. But, if it's not already obvious, especially to anyone who's had ANY contact with organizations like the SFI, epistemic

Re: [FRIAM] Philosophy and Science

2023-07-14 Thread Nicholas Thompson
That is indeed a nifty quote, frank. Thanks for posting it. I spaced out and came late to Thuram. Stephen and had a really enlightening (for me) conversation.. Well into my second reading of MCarthy's Stella Maris. N On Fri, Jul 14, 2023 at 11:33 AM Frank Wimberly wrote: > Joe Ramsey, who

[FRIAM] Philosophy and Science

2023-07-14 Thread Frank Wimberly
Joe Ramsey, who took over my job.in the Philosophy Department at Carnegie Mellon, posted the following on Facebook: I like Neil DeGrasse Tyson a lot, but I saw him give a spirited defense of science in which he oddly gave no credit to philosophers at all. His straw man philosopher is a dedicated