Re: [FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

8^) While I appreciate the troll, I don't see how either of those articles contradict my claim. I'd be happy if you'd explain that to me. And I also have to point out that you've modified your phrase from "mental model" to "mental map", which is progress! If you can find it in you to drop

Re: [FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

"So when the student part of the brain is learning how to sing a song, the tutor part has to tell it whether the song it produced was good or bad and give instructions on how to improve." Like the remarkable generative adversarial networks..

Re: [FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

Marcus, Good point and that took a moment to grasp. What you point out is a very complex issue, much more than a simple transform of a matrix. Which also may be regarded as leaving no footprints. Or so I thought, but we all seem to use "mental maps" -Original Message- From: Friam

Re: [FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

Vladimyr writes: "If the referents are robustly entrenched in formalism then likely so are the artifacts." I work on source-to-source compilers. There's no real-world referent. Just transformations between representations. Marcus

Re: [FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

>Marcus wrote " Others are just involved in collective performance art in the hopes of pushing their citation count higher." They profit since so many are seduced by crappy graphics. My last academic supervisor was one of these characters. But knowing that I finally completed my sentence in

Re: [FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

Hm. while I don't disagree with Nick, I also don't think he answered the question. It might well be that when we ask what a thinking man is doing in any particular instance, we are missing the point. And yet, as the man sits for longer and longer in his thoughts, that argument seems itself

Re: [FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

Although I really like and agree with Nick's answer, his is a little dense. So I'll try for something more pedestrian. Your math concepts are the result of many iterations between the measurement of marks on paper and the evolving concepts in your physiology. From your first sight of some math

Re: [FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

Hi, Frank, Heluva Question, there! Allow me to skip to what seems to be the core question you are asking: “Nick: What is it that you Peirceian’s think I am doing when I think I am modeling stuff in my head.” Gilbert Ryle put this in an even more succinct manner. What is

Re: [FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

So it's easy to substitute the word 'conceptual' for the word 'mental' whenever I talk to you (or Nick). I'm curious. My qualifying exam in real analysis consisted of 10 questions (stimuli, inputs?) like "State and prove the Heine-Borel Theorem". The successful response was a written version of

Re: [FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

Heh, it amuses and frustrates me the pressure to publish when one could instead do something useful like develop and share code. Those "mental models" scribbled down on paper obviously have less value than tools to solve the general problem (i.e. working through all the boring but necessary

Re: [FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

I've made this same point 10s of times and I've clearly failed. I'll try one last time and then take my failure with me. When you assert that there's a dividing line between rigorous and whimsical mental models, what are you saying? It makes no sense to me, whatsoever. Rigor means

Re: [FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

On 04/22/2017 04:41 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote: > I have a "mental map" of the streets of Santa Fe. I can plan a route to the > dump, or even alternative routes, which I can then successfully follow. > Model or figment? If you believe that "mental map" is _purely_ mental, then it's a figment.

Re: [FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

Glen, My “imaginary brain farts” became tangible through effort. I have no doubt about their validity but some were clearly stupid. However loosely I used the term model without prefixes these imaginary procedures are not without dependencies, or referents. But this can only arise in a

Re: [FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

I have a "mental map" of the streets of Santa Fe. I can plan a route to the dump, or even alternative routes, which I can then successfully follow. Model or figment? I'm sure you've heard many times that all models are wrong; some are useful. Frank Frank Wimberly Phone (505) 670-9918 On Apr

Re: [FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

On 04/22/2017 11:44 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote: > "I argue that this mental model is a figment of your imagination..." > > In other words, a mental model. Heh, no. Despite being a huge term that covers almost everything under the sun, "model" _does_ at least require a referent. A purely

Re: [FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

"I argue that this mental model is a figment of your imagination..." In other words, a mental model. Frank Frank Wimberly Phone (505) 670-9918 On Apr 22, 2017 9:48 AM, "┣glen┫" wrote: > Excellent! Thanks for providing some concrete context. I now realize you > are

Re: [FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

Excellent! Thanks for providing some concrete context. I now realize you are focusing on a describable subset of the amorphous cloud of the word "model". Progress in the argument is impossible without that. And I'll try to avoid the endless caveats, qualifiers, and prefixes for the ambiguous

Re: [FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

Glen, making you nauseous was not my intention. So some models use Rigid Metrics others seem to bePattern Comparisons and then there are Neural Models I have been labouring for some time on another which was once thought by myself to be a machine motion algorithm but when graphically

Re: [FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

On 04/20/2017 09:45 PM, Vladimyr wrote: > "If you don't know how to measure it, then you don't know how to model it." > > That statement has the feel of circularity about it. > It may be quite correct in some cases but it completely fails when a simple > predator > models the terrain in its

Re: [FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

"If you don't know how to measure it, then you don't know how to model it." That statement has the feel of circularity about it. It may be quite correct in some cases but it completely fails when a simple predator models the terrain in its brain without a Lufkin tape measure. Mental models seem

Re: [FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

On 04/19/2017 04:10 PM, Vladimyr wrote: > I don't know of any measuring device that operates in these realms. Exactly. If you don't know how to measure it, then you don't know how to model it. > You might be able to help with one of my issues,... How to make one object > talk to another

Re: [FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

Glen and the gang, "measure-dependent concepts like honesty, morality, gullibility, etc. is to over-emphasize one small set of measures to the detriment of all the other measures and their scopes." I don't know of any measuring device that operates in these realms. But in general a domestic

Re: [FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

On 04/18/2017 06:54 PM, Vladimyr wrote: > Evolution is operating like a skinflint or miser rarely inventing something > totally new. At least since cyanobacteria figured out oxygen usefulness. Ahh, but whether that's true or false hinges on the inherent ambiguity in the word "new". So, I posit

Re: [FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

Glen, impute? or impune I had a reputation once... for building complex structures. No matter what the object it started with much simpler components and complex emerged from many iterations. In my mind iterations only baffle the audience. Evolution is operating like a skinflint or miser

Re: [FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

OK. Sorry. I mistook your message as suggesting an additional mechanism, rather than a plea for simpler models. In general, I agree that simpler models should be falsified before adding mechanisms like the modal one you suggested. But, as is obvious with the special sciences like biology,

Re: [FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

Glen, Your models are so sophisticated that I barely grasp their intricacies. I only offered a suggestion that could possibly reduce your work load. In my opinion you ascribe overly complex behavior to very dumb characters. At the most primitive level living organisms are predominantly selfish

Re: [FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

Interesting. So, just to repeat back, to see if I understand. Steve wondered if there were (a good) model of the evolution of individuals in political state space. I responded that there are lots of (bad) models. But the more important point is _why_ model that evolution (including models

Re: [FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

Glen, Try something else... Create Agents that only behave honestly when they think they are under observation. When they think they have been detected they will weave a rationalization out of standard clichés, that appears as if they were honest but mistaken due to ambiguity of language.

Re: [FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

On 04/13/2017 03:06 PM, Steven A Smith wrote: > > Not just because I want to predict their behaviour, I might want to adopt > that part of their memome into my own? Ugh! Thanks for reminding me why I hate the idea of memes. The problem me and Robert argued about extensively awhile ago is

Re: [FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

On 04/13/2017 12:36 PM, Steven A Smith wrote: > *I* DO care why someone voted for Trump. If that someone is someone I know, > I am interested in how that factoid (voting for Trump) effects my other > dealings with them. Many anti-Trump folks will virtually excommunicate a > friend or

[FRIAM] the arc of socioeconomics, personal and public: was VPN server

Glen - Walking back up a few branches, Vladimyr made a comment about (I think) flocking, mob rules, tribalism, etc. My response was that the _essentialist_ concepts he (many of us, actually) would _like_ to see governing people's behavior don't really exist. What does exist is the trace, the