[FRIAM] reluctant spiritual exploration: Day 283 Science and Health, Chapter 12 Thursday: Mary Baker Eddy: Frank J. Ellis: Rich Murray 2013.10.10

2013-10-11 Thread Rich Murray
reluctant spiritual exploration: Day 283 Science and Health, Chapter 12 Thursday: Mary Baker Eddy: Frank J. Ellis: Rich Murray 2013.10.10 http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2013/10/reluctant-spiritual-exploration-day-283.html My first dogmatism in life was modern science, embraced eagerly after my

Re: [FRIAM] Firefox phone

2013-10-11 Thread Arlo Barnes
[Cleaning up the very last of the old email] Arlo? Are you back from summer camp on the ISS or somewhere equally amazing? Oh man, I wish!I was somewhere only marginally less awesome, a Santa Fe Institute summer camp...in Groton, Massachusetts. Some more details

[FRIAM] Notions of entropy

2013-10-11 Thread Nick Thompson
At Friam today, we had our first discussion of entropy in a while. It was like old times. I really enjoyed it. But the following disagreement came up. I am, I think, a bit of what philosophers call an essentialist. In other words, I assume that when people use the same words for two

Re: [FRIAM] [WedTech] aluminum ant colony

2013-10-11 Thread Steve Smith
Owen sed: I wonder how they deduce which areas are used for what purpose? They stated several cases but w/o explanation, I think. Taking this to FRIAM where introspective, tangential maunderings are more tolerated. I'm sure they knew a *huge* amount about ant colony structure and function

Re: [FRIAM] Notions of entropy

2013-10-11 Thread Russell Standish
I'd say bollocks to that. Entropy is clearly information in disguise. That changes in it can also be related to the amount of heat processed at a given temperature is also something that comes out of considering rearrangements of kinetic molecular motion, and ultimately gives rise to the well

Re: [FRIAM] Notions of entropy

2013-10-11 Thread Jochen Fromm
Nice to see the list is still alive :-) Entropy as information in disguise. Interesting. Isn't Entropy related to disorder, that is to say lack of information? -J. On 10/11/2013 11:10 PM, Russell Standish wrote: I'd say bollocks to that. Entropy is clearly information in disguise. That changes

Re: [FRIAM] Notions of entropy

2013-10-11 Thread Tom Carter
All -- Ah, entropy . . . A couple of references: http://bayes.wustl.edu/etj/articles/gibbs.vs.boltzmann.pdf http://charlottewerndl.net/Entropy_Guide.pdf A couple of quotes from the E. T. Jaynes article (gibbs.vs.boltzmann reference above): It is interesting that

Re: [FRIAM] Notions of entropy

2013-10-11 Thread Russell Standish
On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 11:08:18PM +0200, Jochen Fromm wrote: Nice to see the list is still alive :-) Entropy as information in disguise. Interesting. Isn't Entropy related to disorder, that is to say lack of information? -J. Something like that. The exact relationship is S + I = SM where

Re: [FRIAM] Notions of entropy

2013-10-11 Thread Merle Lefkoff
On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 3:38 PM, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.auwrote: On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 11:08:18PM +0200, Jochen Fromm wrote: Nice to see the list is still alive :-) Entropy as information in disguise. Interesting. Isn't Entropy related to disorder, that is to say lack of

[FRIAM] Avogadro vs Loschmidt vs Jeane Baptiste Perrin

2013-10-11 Thread Steve Smith
Tom Carter sed: p.s. Pedagogical question: An exercise I do in class from time to time is to ask this question: What would Avogadro's Number have been if the French Revolution had failed? (Justify your answer . . .) (Hint: step 1: what possible relation might those have to each

Re: [FRIAM] Avogadro vs Loschmidt vs Jeane Baptiste Perrin

2013-10-11 Thread Russell Standish
Speaking of which, I have very fond memory of avacodo's number being prepared at the table at a restaurant just outside Santa Fe that Andy Wuensche took me to. Cheers On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 04:08:18PM -0600, Steve Smith wrote: I have a question for you... If Avogadro's number is a

Re: [FRIAM] Avogadro vs Loschmidt vs Jeane Baptiste Perrin

2013-10-11 Thread Steve Smith
Russel - Speaking of which, I have very fond memory of avacodo's number being prepared at the table at a restaurant just outside Santa Fe that Andy Wuensche took me to. That's gotta be Gabriel's (unless it was more than 20 years ago, then it was likely the same location then called Los

Re: [FRIAM] Notions of entropy

2013-10-11 Thread Steve Smith
Merle - Thanks for the link to your TedX talk... I certainly was inspired by the sentiments expressed in general but was hoping for a more direct connection with Complexity Science... Is there anything written up, making a deeper connection perhaps? - Steve On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at

Re: [FRIAM] Avogadro vs Loschmidt vs Jeane Baptiste Perrin

2013-10-11 Thread Russell Standish
On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 04:53:35PM -0600, Steve Smith wrote: Russel - Speaking of which, I have very fond memory of avacodo's number being prepared at the table at a restaurant just outside Santa Fe that Andy Wuensche took me to. That's gotta be Gabriel's (unless it was more than 20

Re: [FRIAM] Avogadro vs Loschmidt vs Jeane Baptiste Perrin

2013-10-11 Thread Steve Smith
Russell - Probably Gabriel's. It was 15 years ago. And still the best I've ever tasted. Cheers And it is the ultimate in open source... all the ingredients and the method of preparation are presented to you completely transparently... and somehow, nobody else seems to be able to beat it! I

Re: [FRIAM] Avogadro vs Loschmidt vs Jeane Baptiste Perrin

2013-10-11 Thread Tom Carter
Steve - Mostly going for other units (I like oz-mols . . . but I also like the teaspoon-mol -- what it might have been if the British had taken charge . . . :-) -- but going in the direction of something like science as an embodied, social/political activity, etc., etc. . . . Also,

Re: [FRIAM] Notions of entropy

2013-10-11 Thread lrudolph
Nick writes, in relevant part: I am, I think, a bit of what philosophers call an essentialist. In other words, I assume that when people use the same words for two things, it aint for nothing, that there is something underlying the surface that makes those two things the same. So,

Re: [FRIAM] Notions of entropy

2013-10-11 Thread Russell Standish
On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 08:49:44PM -0400, lrudo...@meganet.net wrote: Most recently, I've been going through the same exercise (again for a chapter, now not in a book of my own) for recursion and recursive. Again, I have accumulated ... what a mess! Back in the day when I was teaching

[FRIAM] TMobile

2013-10-11 Thread Owen Densmore
My contract is up at Vzn .. where I went to get an iPhone, get a seniors plan and to have better coverage. But I'm thinking of going back to Tmo simply because they are doing some interesting stunts like being honest about the phone contract, and having digital roaming in europe. And I prefer

Re: [FRIAM] Notions of entropy

2013-10-11 Thread Owen Densmore
OK, I'll bite. Why NOT let entropy simply be an equation that is useful in certain domains? I rather like the lack of ambiguity. -- Owen On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 7:52 PM, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.auwrote: On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 08:49:44PM -0400, lrudo...@meganet.net wrote:

Re: [FRIAM] Notions of entropy

2013-10-11 Thread Nick Thompson
OK, I'll bite your bite. For the same reason that the world was outraged when some experimental psychologists defined emotionality as the number of turds left in an open field maze by a white rat. N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University

Re: [FRIAM] Notions of entropy

2013-10-11 Thread Owen Densmore
Do you really feel that turds are equivalent to probability measures? I can see that a mouse emits more turds when excited, that's fine. It doesn't lead to measures of security on the internet. It doesn't quantify information. And thermodynamics and information theory have made good use of the

Re: [FRIAM] TMobile

2013-10-11 Thread Robert Holmes
This might be a reason to go to T-mobile: http://boingboing.net/2013/10/10/t-mobile-pitches-unlimited-no.html On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Owen Densmore o...@backspaces.net wrote: My contract is up at Vzn .. where I went to get an iPhone, get a seniors plan and to have better coverage.

Re: [FRIAM] TMobile

2013-10-11 Thread Owen Densmore
I saw that .. but found that there is a bit of controversy: the data roaming is 2G some claim. To tell the truth, it seem to me that GSM should have world wide roaming .. data and voice .. to take advantage of their GSM standard. Its quite a pain to have to get a temp SIM every time I go to

Re: [FRIAM] Notions of entropy

2013-10-11 Thread Nick Thompson
OMIGOSH, no. You complete mistook me. Sorry. I am the last person to compare math to rat turds. Turds of any kind, for that matter. My {recently} late big brother was a mathematician. Some of my best friends (and favorite collaborators) are mathematicians. The point was only that number of

Re: [FRIAM] Avogadro vs Loschmidt vs Jeane Baptiste Perrin

2013-10-11 Thread Steve Smith
On 10/11/13 6:22 PM, Tom Carter wrote: Steve - Mostly going for other units (I like oz-mols . . . but I also like the teaspoon-mol -- what it might have been if the British had taken charge . . . :-) -- but going in the direction of something like science as an embodied, social/political

Re: [FRIAM] Notions of entropy

2013-10-11 Thread Steve Smith
Lee - That was fascinating... thanks for sharing a peek into what was clearly a lot of careful work. - Steve Nick writes, in relevant part: I am, I think, a bit of what philosophers call an essentialist. In other words, I assume that when people use the same words for two things, it aint

Re: [FRIAM] Notions of entropy

2013-10-11 Thread Steve Smith
On the topic of language, this hyperpolyglot's description of his experience learning/speaking many languages is fascinating: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km9-DiFaxpU His assertion that he thinks differently when he speaks different languages and that he begins learning a new language by