Brad McCormick, Ed.D. wrote:
Good to hear from Tor again! Hopefully
well-fare for people is still alive and
well in the land of the midnight sun!
Thank you!
Just to mention that things are changing.
A few months ago Denmark decided to raise taxes of the rich and lower
taxes of the common
Eva asked,
Shouldn't we try whatever we can?
Eva,
Have you ever laid down on the tracks to stop a moving train? If you had,
you wouldn't be telling people it's so easy. Sure, if everyone laid on the
tracks together, the train would have to stop. But those who lie down first
are alone
I hate to say it, but you are speaking platitudes that don't stem from
original thought, but from more ancient platitudes. That has to be so
when the typical reference of "proof" is, "it is so because HE said it's
so." The Social Scientist is apparently well read, but lacking even one
Eva asked,
Shouldn't we try whatever we can?
Eva,
Have you ever laid down on the tracks to stop a moving train? If you had,
you wouldn't be telling people it's so easy. Sure, if everyone laid on the
tracks together, the train would have to stop. But those who lie down first
are alone --
-Original Message-
From: Eva Durant [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: list futurework [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tuesday, August 04, 1998 7:13 AM
Subject: Re: BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN?
Eva Durant, in response to my posting on the decline of our high- energy
based system:
We have the means to make
At 11:20 PM 8/2/98 GMT, Eva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The Gaia concept always sounded like a phantasy picture
to me. too mistyeyed and humanised. Like saying, that
the solar system was just so stable in the las few million years
because it had the hidden agenda of maintaining that
wierd third
From: Ray E. Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Do you think we could come up with some kind of syndrome that connects all
of
these massive denials? How about it Brad? A 12 step program maybe? Jay
could write about it, Eva could do the numbers and the economists could
work on
the ideology of
Durant wrote:
I had no response to my arguments;
Science is only a tool and even art would be non-existent without
scientific problemsolving.
What is the date on the invention of the modern scientific process? Method?
It is the social/economical/cultural system that poses and
Durant wrote:
I had no response to my arguments;
Science is only a tool and even art would be non-existent without
scientific problemsolving.
What is the date on the invention of the modern scientific process? Method?
The old one was just the same as the modern, even
So the "thinker" and the "herd" are different species... there is no
evidence of this and all theories that attempt to use such notions
were very limited in their efficiency besides being sinister.
Jay, I think you are into some sort of personality-cult stuff...
Not different species,
-Original Message-
From: Eva Durant [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: list futurework [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Monday, August 03, 1998 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN?
In response to my posting on the probability that we are transcending the
limits of sustainability, Eva Durant asks
Hey, Jay, I agree with you here... Eva
I all cases, when I say "sciences", I mean "systems sciences" -- big picture
sciences that include the social impacts in analysis. I am thinking of a
top-down analysis of the whole enchilada
SYSTEM DEFINED
Interacting, interrelated, or
Subject: Re: BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN?
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 16:21:53 -0400
From: "Ed Weick" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "Jay Hanson" [EMAIL PROTECTED],
"Futurework" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: Jay Hanson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Futu
Brad: Virtually everything you say is correct. However, with az bit of
rigor, we can more sharply define all the elements of this discussion to
simple understanding -- something that the Real Sciences should have
done instead of leaving it to the Unreal (Social) Sciences. (I'm not
condemning the
Sorry guys gals,
but it ain't that simple. Just ask Hall, Geertz or any of the
others who have come to realize that the world does not only have
two sides. Brad, that Maslow hierarchy exists as a holistic
frame, in the moment, not as an order of events. I would encourage
a look at his
From: Durant [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Economist to work on ideology?? That's sounds even more frightening
than me doing numbers...
Ideology and mathematical conjuring tricks is what economists are trained to
do. G
Jay
Ray E. Harrell wrote:
Sorry guys gals,
but it ain't that simple. Just ask Hall, Geertz or any of the others
who have come to realize that the world does not only have two
sides. Brad, that Maslow hierarchy exists as a holistic frame, in
the moment, not as an order of events. I
Sorry guys, but considering the history of people who have "solved" the
problems of the past like highways, nuclear power, the "free market",
the buffalo, the Indians, the internal combustion engine, the Concorde,
the economy, all with out looking at the big picture, makes me not
look to science
Ray Harrell's thread is superb, but isn't the problem with science that
it is effectively an act of analysis done upon something else than the
scientist? As such scientific solutions like the ones listed below solve
problems of transport, exchange, sociology and power supply in a narrow
sense,
Hi:
I've been off this list for a couple of years, but I hear it's still a
sounding board for reality - for which there is generally little appetite,
when it comes to considering humanity's future prospects
I was sent a recent post, so I though I'd sign on for a while.
REH said
Jay,
Coming
Ray E. Harrell wrote:
Sorry guys, but considering the history of people who have "solved"
the problems of the past like highways, nuclear power, the "free
market", the buffalo, the Indians, the internal combustion engine,
the Concorde, the economy, all with out looking at the big
I agree with Brad:
Brad McCormick, Ed.D. wrote:
Perhaps this is as good a place as any to clarify something
about some of my postings that may not have been obvious due
to my having other "fish to fry": I think Jay's disgnoses and
progmoses of waht's likely to happen in our world are
Ray E. Harrell wrote:
[big snip]
All of this being said, I am not an anti-European or an anti-Scientist.
[big snip]
While it is true that many scientists are "in for the money" and many
technicians wear blinkers, we should keep in mind that not all scientists/
technicians are like that, and
Christoph Reuss wrote:
Ray E. Harrell wrote:
[big snip]
All of this being said, I am not an anti-European or an anti-Scientist.
[big snip]
While it is true that many scientists are "in for the money" and many
technicians wear blinkers, we should keep in mind that not all scientists/
Jay Hanson wrote:
From: fran^don [EMAIL PROTECTED]
serve society. Rather, society is seen as an aggregate resource to serve
the global market.", and suggests we are all believers in this mad
scenario.
E. O. Wilson has pointed out that people evolved to "believe" -- not to be
-Original Message-
From: Jay Hanson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Futurework [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Friday, July 31, 1998 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN?
Let's pretend for a moment, that we had the resources to minimize global
human suffering. What would we do?
I would expect
E. O. Wilson has pointed out that people evolved to "believe" -- not to
be
scientists Once the thinkers figure out what needs to be done, a twelve
step program is an excellent way to change the behavior of the herd.
So the "thinker" and the "herd" are different species... there is no
rgy wasted is known as the "energy profit".
By definition, energy "sources" must produce more energy than they
consume -- must produce a profit -- otherwise they are called "sinks".
BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN?
As far as I know, there has been no study that shows the US ec
g
the plant, and so on. The difference between the amount of energy
generated and the amount of energy wasted is known as the "energy profit".
By definition, energy "sources" must produce more energy than they
consume -- must produce a profit -- otherwise they are called &quo
From: Ray E. Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Do you think we could come up with some kind of syndrome that connects all
of
these massive denials? How about it Brad? A 12 step program maybe? Jay
could write about it, Eva could do the numbers and the economists could
work on
the ideology of change,
quot;, a Castoriadis says,
is a contradiction in terms: representation is
the construction of a representing class in
contradistinction to the represented class.
The reason the classical Greek polis was a
democracy is because there were no re-presentatives,
but rather everyone was present as a peer.
From: Brad McCormick, Ed.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
less terrible? *That* I believe is quite possible. My
disagreement with Jay's postings is simply with their
feeding into the ideology which makes persons think they are
less than they can be and thereby helps them to become
that less (if you don't
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