On Nov 1, 2010, at 2:01 PM, Vanessa Ezekowitz wrote:
On Mon, 1 Nov 2010 10:05:17 -0600
John Doty j...@noqsi.com wrote:
What you want doesn't matter. What the *job* needs is the thing that
matters.
Suppose the user can't get the job done *at all* without whatever feature is
being
John Griessen wrote:
That is a standard feature of the usual chip design software
Not only chip design software. Many mechanical design applications
provide this feature, too. autocad, varicad, ustation are just those, I
got in touch with.
---)kaimartin(~~~---
--
Kai-Martin Knaak
Vanessa Ezekowitz vanessaezekow...@gmail.com writes:
On Mon, 1 Nov 2010 13:46:51 -0700
Steven Michalske smichal...@gmail.com wrote:
I code the latter way, writing a good low level API that has a simple
command line UI, then I add the GUI on top of it when it is warranted.
Which is
On Nov 2, 2010, at 9:44 AM, Stephan Boettcher wrote:
When our Linux-using students observe the unix plumbing magic that I
type into the xterm all day, and ask how they can learn all this,
They perceive that software is necessarily a tangled mess because the GUI
things they use are tangled
On 11/02/2010 10:44 AM, Stephan Boettcher wrote:
A GUI that does not hide the magic is a good way to go.
For example, a history window that records all executed PCB actions
during a point and click session, that could be replayed as a script to
repeat all steps would be helpfull. And to cut
On Sun, 31 Oct 2010 20:39:40 -0600
John Doty j...@noqsi.com wrote:
On Oct 31, 2010, at 2:31 PM, Markus Hitter wrote:
Then, there are many people which know cp xxx yyy, but prefer to avoid
it anyways. You want to catch these.
You don't want to dumb down the toolkit [...] gEDA is the
On Nov 1, 2010, at 12:32 AM, Vanessa Ezekowitz wrote:
On Sun, 31 Oct 2010 20:39:40 -0600
John Doty j...@noqsi.com wrote:
On Oct 31, 2010, at 2:31 PM, Markus Hitter wrote:
Then, there are many people which know cp xxx yyy, but prefer to avoid
it anyways. You want to catch these.
You
On Nov 1, 2010, at 9:05 AM, John Doty wrote:
Putting a GUI on non-graphical functions *almost always* torques the design
away from effective scripting. You can claim this isn't necessarily so, but
actual software designers aren't usually smart enough to avoid this trap.
Agreed 100%
This
On 11/01/2010 11:05 AM, John Doty wrote:
Point and click is a seductive time waster*except* for inherently graphical
parts of the job.
A lot of layout is.
Rearranging some sets of files' locations is faster by GUI than by commands,
since whole swaths of files
can be moved at once after a
On Nov 1, 2010, at 10:49 AM, John Griessen wrote:
On 11/01/2010 11:05 AM, John Doty wrote:
Point and click is a seductive time waster*except* for inherently graphical
parts of the job.
A lot of layout is.
Rearranging some sets of files' locations is faster by GUI than by commands,
On Nov 1, 2010, at 11:49 AM, John Griessen wrote:
On 11/01/2010 11:05 AM, John Doty wrote:
Point and click is a seductive time waster*except* for inherently graphical
parts of the job.
A lot of layout is.
Sure. That's a good use of GUI. But parts selection, assigning pin numbers,
On 11/01/2010 01:35 PM, John Doty wrote:
(and no, regexp's would not help this.).
They do for me. mv `ls | grep ...` wherever. But mostly I try not to get into
a mess where there are large numbers of files in a directory.
We're going to be doing things differently with our different
On Nov 1, 2010, at 11:46 AM, John Griessen j...@ecosensory.com wrote:
On 11/01/2010 01:35 PM, Steven Michalske wrote:
I like combining GUI and command line, select the files in the gui and
drag to the terminal!
Sounds like a trick!
Does that work with the GUI program known
John Griessen j...@ecosensory.com writes:
Rearranging some sets of files' locations is faster by GUI than by
commands, since whole swaths of files can be moved at once after a
quick selection task done visually.
not, when I count the time for cleaning up after fat-fingering a mouse
button
On Mon, 1 Nov 2010 10:05:17 -0600
John Doty j...@noqsi.com wrote:
What you want doesn't matter. What the *job* needs is the thing that
matters.
Suppose the user can't get the job done *at all* without whatever feature is
being proposed? That is the crux of my argument here.
This is not to
On Mon, 01 Nov 2010 13:46:55 -0500
John Griessen j...@ecosensory.com wrote:
Does that work with the GUI program known as GNOME Terminal?
Works in XFCE's terminal also; drag and drop from Thunar adds a space-separated
list of the absolute paths of the dropped objects to the end of the command
snip
everything
/snip
I think the point John wants to make is that if you only program for a GUI,
then you loose the scriptability. I have see this many times in software.
Where is you write the GUI first, the scripting is an afterthought. Where as
if you write something scriptable in the
Am 01.11.2010 um 19:35 schrieb John Doty:
the GUI designer's necessarily limited horizon.
You become offending.
Please go ahead and implement the CLI interface. It won't go away
when the GUI arrives.
Markus
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dipl. Ing. (FH) Markus Hitter
On Mon, 1 Nov 2010 13:46:51 -0700
Steven Michalske smichal...@gmail.com wrote:
I code the latter way, writing a good low level API that has a simple
command line UI, then I add the GUI on top of it when it is warranted.
Which is precisely what I was suggesting; since such tools obviously
On Sunday 31 October 2010, Stefan Salewski wrote:
Can you please explain why we will always need the command
line for simulation in gEDA? (I have newer found the time
doing simulations...)
Try this without a command line:
Experimentally finding model parameters:
On Sun, 2010-10-31 at 00:44 +0200, kai-martin knaak wrote:
Evan Foss wrote:
I may have missed it but has anyone suggested the brlcad format. It
might be better than freecad in that it has export/import from a lot
of other formats already written.
It might be worse in that its user
Stefan Salewski wrote:
The user base of brlCAD is marginal
and will probably shrink even more, as more intuitive open
source CAD applications will become a viable alternative.
That may be true, but I am not really happy with the wording.
Some kids may be tempted to do something like
Hi all,
-Original Message-
From: geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org
[mailto:geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org] On Behalf Of
kai-martin knaak
Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 6:36 PM
To: geda-u...@seul.org
Subject: Re: gEDA-user: Ben mode feature request
Stefan Salewski wrote
That said, it is certainly true that geda looses potential users
because of the command line thing.
The demo I did at Devcon didn't use the command line at all.
___
geda-user mailing list
geda-user@moria.seul.org
On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 5:44 PM, kai-martin knaak k...@familieknaak.de wrote:
Evan Foss wrote:
I may have missed it but has anyone suggested the brlcad format. It
might be better than freecad in that it has export/import from a lot
of other formats already written.
It might be worse in that
Bert Timmerman wrote:
Avoiding the command line won't help you on the gschem -- simulation
work flow.
It ain't necessarily so. (cite from a song I'll sing on Wednesday :)
The current simulation work flow of geda sucks big time. Absence of
a GUI way is only a minor itch when compared with the
On Sun, 2010-10-31 at 19:09 +0100, Bert Timmerman wrote:
Avoiding the command line won't help you on the gschem -- simulation work
flow.
Can you please explain why we will always need the command line for
simulation in gEDA? (I have newer found the time doing simulations...)
Loosing
Evan Foss wrote:
Following that logic gEDA will be made extinct by kicad any day now.
I tried kicad for a little pet project a few months ago. There
were quite a few usability issues. It didn't feel like wow, it
was that easy!. On the contrary, I frequently wished they had
done things
On Sun, 2010-10-31 at 21:05 +0100, Stefan Salewski wrote:
I fully agree. There will not be much real benefit from
Windows/Ubuntu-type of users.
Oi.. lets not forget that at least one of the gEDA developers (me) is an
Ubuntu user. There is no shame in wanting your tools to just work!
/me goes
Peter Clifton wrote:
/me goes back to writing kernel profiling driver for intel GPUs to
squeeze more framerate out of PCB+GL.
Side note: I just purchased a used ATI Radeon HD 4670 that free3d.org
announces as the fastest card with open sourced drivers. I'll keep you
posted on my mileage.
On Sun, 31 Oct 2010 19:30:46 +
Peter Clifton pc...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
On Sun, 2010-10-31 at 21:05 +0100, Stefan Salewski wrote:
I fully agree. There will not be much real benefit from
Windows/Ubuntu-type of users.
Oi.. lets not forget that at least one of the gEDA developers (me) is an
On Sun, 2010-10-31 at 19:30 +, Peter Clifton wrote:
On Sun, 2010-10-31 at 21:05 +0100, Stefan Salewski wrote:
I fully agree. There will not be much real benefit from
Windows/Ubuntu-type of users.
Oi.. lets not forget that at least one of the gEDA developers (me) is an
Ubuntu user.
On Sun, 2010-10-31 at 20:49 +0100, kai-martin knaak wrote:
Side note: I just purchased a used ATI Radeon HD 4670 that free3d.org
announces as the fastest card with open sourced drivers. I'll keep you
posted on my mileage.
I hope it will work fine for you -- some months ago you only
On Sun, 2010-10-31 at 19:30 +, Peter Clifton wrote:
/me goes back to writing kernel profiling driver for intel GPUs to
squeeze more framerate out of PCB+GL.
Indeed I wonder why framerate is critical -- is this only for rotating
the board in 3D view? For other editing operation most of
Am 31.10.2010 um 21:05 schrieb Stefan Salewski:
There will not be much real benefit from
Windows/Ubuntu-type of users. If they do not understand a line like
cp
xxx yyy -- can we really hope that these people will at some time do
serious coding?
Then, there are many people which know cp
On Sun, 2010-10-31 at 20:49 +0100, kai-martin knaak wrote:
Peter Clifton wrote:
/me goes back to writing kernel profiling driver for intel GPUs to
squeeze more framerate out of PCB+GL.
Side note: I just purchased a used ATI Radeon HD 4670 that free3d.org
announces as the fastest card
Stefan Salewski wrote:
I hope it will work fine for you -- some months ago you only
advertised nvidia...
Yes, there was a shift. A year ago, people in
de.comp.os.unix.linux.hardware discouraged me from purchasing
an ATI card. Now, it is more like both should work, but free
ATI drivers can do
On Sun, 2010-10-31 at 22:29 +0100, Stefan Salewski wrote:
On Sun, 2010-10-31 at 19:30 +, Peter Clifton wrote:
/me goes back to writing kernel profiling driver for intel GPUs to
squeeze more framerate out of PCB+GL.
Indeed I wonder why framerate is critical -- is this only for
On Sun, 2010-10-31 at 21:43 +, Peter Clifton wrote:
The update code is sadly pretty dumb.
What I wanted to ensure was fast, would be panning / zooming, which
involved full frame redraws. I want to optimise that first, _then we can
make the editing small areas case lightning fast.
Hm, does this mean you can implement a library, but you mustn't
use material from the standard to document it?
DJ Delorie wrote:
STEP is an ISO standard, which likely means you have to buy the
standard itself, but you can implement it freely:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_10303
On Mon, 2010-11-01 at 00:19 +0100, Stefan Salewski wrote:
Unfortunately there are not much examples, at least not for clever
buffering with cairo.
No, although gerbv actually seems to do a good job in this regard. IIRC,
just redrawing edges which need repainting after a pan.
Zoom can be fudged
On Oct 31, 2010, at 2:31 PM, Markus Hitter wrote:
Then, there are many people which know cp xxx yyy, but prefer to avoid it
anyways. You want to catch these.
You don't want to dumb down the toolkit. Now, if somebody wants to write a fat,
sweet integrated tool using the gEDA file formats,
: Ben mode feature request
On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 17:31:28 +0200
Bert Timmerman bert.timmer...@xs4all.nl wrote:
Anyone volunteering for the difficult part ?
Ah, if only I knew some kind of true 3D modeling
environment... Technical graphics/artwork is kind of a hobby
for me, and I'd like
Hi,
I may have missed it but has anyone suggested the brlcad format. It
might be better than freecad in that it has export/import from a lot
of other formats already written.
___
geda-user mailing list
geda-user@moria.seul.org
8:09 PM
To: gEDA user mailing list
Subject: Re: gEDA-user: Ben mode feature request
Hi,
I may have missed it but has anyone suggested the brlcad
format. It might be better than freecad in that it has
export/import from a lot of other formats already written
On 10/29/2010 09:55 AM, Peter Clifton wrote:
Whilst that isn't as general as a full VRML importer, it might be nice
to be compatible with other OSS CAD tools and their models.
VRML has been around so long that it is one of the ones you want to be able to
translate to and from.
On 10/29/2010
Evan Foss wrote:
I may have missed it but has anyone suggested the brlcad format. It
might be better than freecad in that it has export/import from a lot
of other formats already written.
It might be worse in that its user interface is prohibitively non-
intuitive. I looked at the application
mailing list
Subject: Re: gEDA-user: Ben mode feature request
Anyway I started to think could it be possible to write tool that
populates the PCB? First we know the footprint. There are the legs.
Then we need case. Selecting from few different cases it could be
possible to select
One suggestion I got a Devcon was to support STEP format for 3-d
graphics. While it's a hairy format, it was said to be the standard
for sharing 3-d models of components.
Of course, it would be nicer if someone *else* supported it for us :-)
___
user mailing list
Subject: Re: gEDA-user: Ben mode feature request
One suggestion I got a Devcon was to support STEP format for
3-d graphics. While it's a hairy format, it was said to be
the standard
for sharing 3-d models of components.
Of course, it would be nicer if someone *else
On Fri, 2010-10-29 at 10:26 -0400, DJ Delorie wrote:
One suggestion I got a Devcon was to support STEP format for 3-d
graphics. While it's a hairy format, it was said to be the standard
for sharing 3-d models of components.
KiCad (last time I looked a long while ago) use a very specific
STEP is an ISO standard, which likely means you have to buy the
standard itself, but you can implement it freely:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_10303
___
geda-user mailing list
geda-user@moria.seul.org
IMHO and AFAICT STEP is a closed standard, that is, one will have to
(probably ?) buy a copy of the standard and then violate the copyright
notice prohibiting to disclose (reproduce ?) its contents into some sort of
a library (libSTEP ?), which then could be published under LGPL and used by
To: gEDA user mailing list
Subject: Re: gEDA-user: Ben mode feature request
IMHO and AFAICT STEP is a closed standard, that is, one
will have to
(probably ?) buy a copy of the standard and then violate
the copyright
notice prohibiting to disclose (reproduce ?) its contents into some
DJ Delorie wrote:
One suggestion I got a Devcon was to support STEP format for 3-d
graphics. While it's a hairy format, it was said to be the
standard
for sharing 3-d models of components.
Of course, it would be nicer if someone *else* supported it for
us :-)
That's why I keep
Hello!
I just watched DJ's interview and the talk about ben mode export. I was
amazed how nice pictures it produced. I also checked DJ's website and
saw the tricks that he had already made to make real card. How long
has this feature been there? Because I used something like
Anyway I started to think could it be possible to write tool that
populates the PCB? First we know the footprint. There are the
legs. Then we need case. Selecting from few different cases it could
be possible to select desired case. Size could be little bit smaller
than outline in footprint.
57 matches
Mail list logo
