Re: [Geeqie-devel] Github term of service incompatible to geeqie license (GPL)
On 17/03/01, John Stoffel wrote: > > "Klaus" == Klaus Ethgen writes: > > Klaus> Today I found that github changed their term of service effectively for > Klaus> today.[0] > > Klaus> The new term of service seems to be a bit problematic and disallows to > Klaus> have geeqie on github. Or better said, geeqies license (GPL) is > Klaus> incompatible to github term of service. > > Klaus> I am no native English speaker and also no lawyer, but there is > Klaus> a good analysis[1] describing the problems. > > No, there is one person's analysis of the problem, and who doesn't > talk about the issue in a legal manner. When someone throws around > phrases like "it's now illegal" when a site changes it's terms of > service, then the stupdity is flowing. > > Klaus> Please have a look and comment. I think, the only way is to > Klaus> remove geeqie completely from github. And please don't push any > Klaus> content to github (the original geeqie repository is ok) unless > Klaus> the issue is cleared. It seems that until we continue _using_ > Klaus> github, we agree with the new term of service, what we might > Klaus> not be able to do. > > I don't know why you think these terms change anything? It's just a > way for github to cover themselves from lawsuits if someone takes and > posts on github stuff they don't own. > > It's not suddenly making GPL software illegal on there at all. Its > like the terms and service agreements that lots and lots of other > sites have in place as well. > > Please do not freak out over this, do not stop people from pushing > stuff to github, and certainly do not apply the flaky reasoning of > just one non-lawyer's opinion to this project. > > If they don't like the terms of service, then fine, they can move > their project(s) elsewhere. Big deal. > > Basically, all github is saying that when you push stuff up there, > it's publiclly available and that you give them the right to make it > visible to others. It's *your* job to make sure you have the right to > do so, not theirs. I just asked Red Hat Legal (some of our projects are hosted on github) to have a quick look at this and they don't perceive a conflict between the github ToU and the GPL. > John slainte mhath, RGB -- Richard Guy Briggs -- ~\-- ~\ -- \___ o \@ @Ride yer bike! Ottawa, ON, CANADA -- Lo_>__M__\\/\%__\\/\% Vote! -- _GTVS6#790__(*)__(*)(*)(*)_ -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Geeqie-devel mailing list Geeqie-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geeqie-devel
Re: [Geeqie-devel] Github term of service incompatible to geeqie license (GPL)
> "Roger" == Roger writes: >> On Wed, Mar 01, 2017 at 04:29:00PM -0500, John Stoffel wrote: >>> "Klaus" == Klaus Ethgen writes: >> Klaus> Today I found that github changed their term of service effectively for Klaus> today.[0] >> Klaus> The new term of service seems to be a bit problematic and disallows to Klaus> have geeqie on github. Or better said, geeqies license (GPL) is Klaus> incompatible to github term of service. >> Klaus> I am no native English speaker and also no lawyer, but there is Klaus> a good analysis[1] describing the problems. >> >> No, there is one person's analysis of the problem, and who doesn't >> talk about the issue in a legal manner. When someone throws around >> phrases like "it's now illegal" when a site changes it's terms of >> service, then the stupdity is flowing. >> Klaus> Please have a look and comment. I think, the only way is to Klaus> remove geeqie completely from github. And please don't push any Klaus> content to github (the original geeqie repository is ok) unless Klaus> the issue is cleared. It seems that until we continue _using_ Klaus> github, we agree with the new term of service, what we might Klaus> not be able to do. >> >> I don't know why you think these terms change anything? It's just a >> way for github to cover themselves from lawsuits if someone takes and >> posts on github stuff they don't own. >> >> It's not suddenly making GPL software illegal on there at all. Its >> like the terms and service agreements that lots and lots of other >> sites have in place as well. >> >> Please do not freak out over this, do not stop people from pushing >> stuff to github, and certainly do not apply the flaky reasoning of >> just one non-lawyer's opinion to this project. >> >> If they don't like the terms of service, then fine, they can move >> their project(s) elsewhere. Big deal. >> >> Basically, all github is saying that when you push stuff up there, >> it's publiclly available and that you give them the right to make it >> visible to others. It's *your* job to make sure you have the right to >> do so, not theirs. >> >> John Roger> I'm no lawyer nor have I read the changes, but continueing a Roger> service after a change in legal terms is emplaced, could be Roger> construed as the customer agreeing to the new terms of service. Roger> This is likely why Klaus (likely wisely) stated not to make any Roger> further commits to GitHub until he receives clarification. Go read the changes and what the agreement says for yourself. Roger> If I'm not mistaken, Klaus is the big guy (or the party Roger> responsible), so things will likely go as he wishes. Sure, he can do what he wants. But then again, one of us could fork geeqie and put it on github or some other hosting service too. Heck, I've got a VPS and I could spring for another $5/mon to increase the RAM and host it there. But github does offer a bunch of good features. Roger> I frequently encounter poor legal advice, and many people or Roger> corporations think they can do something when they really Roger> cannot do something legally. And, a lot of people like to Roger> utilize fear tactics in an attempt to deter some apparent Roger> undesirable activity, again illegal in some or many States or Roger> Countries. Yup. This is why you need to talk to a real lawyer if people are so concerned. Roger> I do not think it has been so long that, many have not Roger> forgotten the horrid tactics sf.net enstated not so long ago! Yup, they were doing much worse things, and actively putting crap into downloads and basically forgetting what they're mission was in the search of more money for the owners. It's a balancing act. It costs github money to run. Roger> This is one of the reasons why I would use a private server or Roger> private shell account for publicizing a software project, Roger> versus using something like github, etc... There's big downsides too, both in terms of security, level of effort to run such a project, etc. Before people freak out over the changes, go and read them for yourselves. John -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Geeqie-devel mailing list Geeqie-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geeqie-devel
Re: [Geeqie-devel] Github term of service incompatible to geeqie license (GPL)
> On Wed, Mar 01, 2017 at 04:29:00PM -0500, John Stoffel wrote: >> "Klaus" == Klaus Ethgen writes: > >Klaus> Today I found that github changed their term of service effectively for >Klaus> today.[0] > >Klaus> The new term of service seems to be a bit problematic and disallows to >Klaus> have geeqie on github. Or better said, geeqies license (GPL) is >Klaus> incompatible to github term of service. > >Klaus> I am no native English speaker and also no lawyer, but there is >Klaus> a good analysis[1] describing the problems. > >No, there is one person's analysis of the problem, and who doesn't >talk about the issue in a legal manner. When someone throws around >phrases like "it's now illegal" when a site changes it's terms of >service, then the stupdity is flowing. > >Klaus> Please have a look and comment. I think, the only way is to >Klaus> remove geeqie completely from github. And please don't push any >Klaus> content to github (the original geeqie repository is ok) unless >Klaus> the issue is cleared. It seems that until we continue _using_ >Klaus> github, we agree with the new term of service, what we might >Klaus> not be able to do. > >I don't know why you think these terms change anything? It's just a >way for github to cover themselves from lawsuits if someone takes and >posts on github stuff they don't own. > >It's not suddenly making GPL software illegal on there at all. Its >like the terms and service agreements that lots and lots of other >sites have in place as well. > >Please do not freak out over this, do not stop people from pushing >stuff to github, and certainly do not apply the flaky reasoning of >just one non-lawyer's opinion to this project. > >If they don't like the terms of service, then fine, they can move >their project(s) elsewhere. Big deal. > >Basically, all github is saying that when you push stuff up there, >it's publiclly available and that you give them the right to make it >visible to others. It's *your* job to make sure you have the right to >do so, not theirs. > >John I'm no lawyer nor have I read the changes, but continueing a service after a change in legal terms is emplaced, could be construed as the customer agreeing to the new terms of service. This is likely why Klaus (likely wisely) stated not to make any further commits to GitHub until he receives clarification. If I'm not mistaken, Klaus is the big guy (or the party responsible), so things will likely go as he wishes. I frequently encounter poor legal advice, and many people or corporations think they can do something when they really cannot do something legally. And, a lot of people like to utilize fear tactics in an attempt to deter some apparent undesirable activity, again illegal in some or many States or Countries. I do not think it has been so long that, many have not forgotten the horrid tactics sf.net enstated not so long ago! This is one of the reasons why I would use a private server or private shell account for publicizing a software project, versus using something like github, etc... -- Roger http://rogerx.freeshell.org/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___ Geeqie-devel mailing list Geeqie-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geeqie-devel
Re: [Geeqie-devel] Github term of service incompatible to geeqie license (GPL)
> "Klaus" == Klaus Ethgen writes: Klaus> Today I found that github changed their term of service effectively for Klaus> today.[0] Klaus> The new term of service seems to be a bit problematic and disallows to Klaus> have geeqie on github. Or better said, geeqies license (GPL) is Klaus> incompatible to github term of service. Klaus> I am no native English speaker and also no lawyer, but there is Klaus> a good analysis[1] describing the problems. No, there is one person's analysis of the problem, and who doesn't talk about the issue in a legal manner. When someone throws around phrases like "it's now illegal" when a site changes it's terms of service, then the stupdity is flowing. Klaus> Please have a look and comment. I think, the only way is to Klaus> remove geeqie completely from github. And please don't push any Klaus> content to github (the original geeqie repository is ok) unless Klaus> the issue is cleared. It seems that until we continue _using_ Klaus> github, we agree with the new term of service, what we might Klaus> not be able to do. I don't know why you think these terms change anything? It's just a way for github to cover themselves from lawsuits if someone takes and posts on github stuff they don't own. It's not suddenly making GPL software illegal on there at all. Its like the terms and service agreements that lots and lots of other sites have in place as well. Please do not freak out over this, do not stop people from pushing stuff to github, and certainly do not apply the flaky reasoning of just one non-lawyer's opinion to this project. If they don't like the terms of service, then fine, they can move their project(s) elsewhere. Big deal. Basically, all github is saying that when you push stuff up there, it's publiclly available and that you give them the right to make it visible to others. It's *your* job to make sure you have the right to do so, not theirs. John -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Geeqie-devel mailing list Geeqie-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geeqie-devel
[Geeqie-devel] Github term of service incompatible to geeqie license (GPL)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Hi Folks, Today I found that github changed their term of service effectively for today.[0] The new term of service seems to be a bit problematic and disallows to have geeqie on github. Or better said, geeqies license (GPL) is incompatible to github term of service. I am no native English speaker and also no lawyer, but there is a good analysis[1] describing the problems. Please have a look and comment. I think, the only way is to remove geeqie completely from github. And please don't push any content to github (the original geeqie repository is ok) unless the issue is cleared. It seems that until we continue _using_ github, we agree with the new term of service, what we might not be able to do. Regards Klaus [0] https://tmp.joeyh.name/github-tos.pdf [1] https://www.mirbsd.org/permalinks/wlog-10_e20170301-tg.htm - -- Klaus Ethgen http://www.ethgen.ch/ pub 4096R/4E20AF1C 2011-05-16Klaus Ethgen Fingerprint: 85D4 CA42 952C 949B 1753 62B3 79D0 B06F 4E20 AF1C -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Comment: Charset: ISO-8859-1 iQGzBAEBCgAdFiEEMWF28vh4/UMJJLQEpnwKsYAZ9qwFAli3KrgACgkQpnwKsYAZ 9qwbQwv+MBLTq0wcTngtOEcrM/Q0viDlMjSozQzcE5lb61Z7TNFi1BCTLoebmfKj yXKzbbzhqn0RDTeS4aH5/VYR1VNtwl1cGoTqeIDHphRtkQy4x9i76SaYsiqD5BU5 o6lYak2dX22tvDytTgnYLC13QcqlVZHwzE6jP9HgOrV0roOGg3IfwI9juSzTuzRz 23winIJgmv6SlivmYJ41Hrwodwh4a/yswO6YJhScK/37pZUzRUaWTVLJ9sUZD8g6 XdNF8hj/DFRBQgPXfIzLu8w1ZUx5y1de3WPeSMGZaD6DVjhrSYYJK/n76TvTcRzU ibZh3Yw8xf+WTl0JMyEh498RFw6kVvZBWovz6BbObK9v5VzRPyX2rWhfbzYr5op3 IRYziH4kTNf+z7V+ov2v1DjAOPz5pvpV/mfe9+micoSSKgzYPeJk5fexKCwN0rrb 0ZXL9uP5SSSXE33yOU4+bmfIFvpkGMO8ZZ0JoGqb1ubDnicpSIVzLtvjKcCnQPvG ZvbMnRg1 =me0Z -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Geeqie-devel mailing list Geeqie-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geeqie-devel
