On Dec 20, 2003, at 11:36 AM, Santiago Gala wrote:
El sábado, 20 dici, 2003, a las 14:00 Europe/Madrid, Geir Magnusson
Jr. escribió:
On Dec 19, 2003, at 2:27 PM, Ted Husted wrote:
(...)
A very subtle concept is that the ASF doesn't actually "own" the
codebase. The codebase belongs to its com
Santiago Gala wrote:
[SNIP]
This implies that those having easier ability or will to maintain the
product are the effective owners of it. as in a rapidly changing
environment, software rot takes care of static code bases.
Exactly. There is a saying from Dune:
"Whoever has the power to destroy
El sábado, 20 dici, 2003, a las 14:00 Europe/Madrid, Geir Magnusson Jr.
escribió:
On Dec 19, 2003, at 2:27 PM, Ted Husted wrote:
(...)
A very subtle concept is that the ASF doesn't actually "own" the
codebase. The codebase belongs to its community, and under the Apache
License, that communit
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
I'd say it the other way around. The ASF is a collection of
communities that create and maintain codebases. To obtain
infrastructure support and some legal protection, these communities
donate the copyright of its software and ownership of its brand to the
Foundation.
On Dec 20, 2003, at 8:24 AM, Ceki Gülcü wrote:
Log4j is not leaving. It is simply moving to a new room in the house,
a room with a different label but still located within the same house.
As any house, this house offers protection and comfort to its
inhabitants. It is a place where developers ca
arta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 22:26:44 -0800
To: Jakarta General List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Harish
Krishnaswamy
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: Jakarta General List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Jakarta: Confederation or Single Project?
Quot
Log4j is not leaving. It is simply moving to a new room in the house,
a room with a different label but still located within the same house.
As any house, this house offers protection and comfort to its
inhabitants. It is a place where developers can unleash their creative
powers onto the world.
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 07:36:20 -0500
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> One example might be a lawyer working closely w/ a community (for
> whatever reason) - that lawyer might be providing tremendous input and
> participation, but has no need/use for committership. That person
> could still be a memb
On Dec 19, 2003, at 2:27 PM, Ted Husted wrote:
Harish Krishnaswamy wrote:
ASF is a group of projects administered by the Apache board members.
The board delegates certain responsibilities over to the PMCs of the
individual projects while still maintaining the authority and
management responsibi
Holy war time:
IoC TLP's
public class Log4J implements JakartaAware, LoggingAware
{
...
}
public class Log4J
{
public void setJakarta(Jakarta jakarta) { ... }
public void setLogging(Logging logging) { ... }
}
public class Log4J
{
public Log4J(Jakarta jakarta, Loggi
On Dec 19, 2003, at 2:58 PM, Costin Manolache wrote:
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
Radical view: allow the subprojects to send 1-2 delegates to the PMC
and
require each subproject to send one or die. This would size the PMC,
assure
that "heart attack in the crowd" syndrome doesn't take place and make
On Dec 19, 2003, at 3:33 PM, Costin Manolache wrote:
Ted Husted :
[SNIP]
I agreed w/ every word from Costin.
And look what's happening with logging: Now that it's a TLP, they are
bringing-in the various Log4J compatibles. Now, there can be one
Apache logging project serving every platform. T
quot;friends" part that is important - tomcat just happens to be
the first project in jakarta :-)
Costin
- Original Message -
From: "Harish Krishnaswamy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, December 18,
Ted Husted wrote:
Michael Davey wrote:
Jakarta is the *brand*. It defines itself. Jakarta brand
development. A brand can give a unique identity and grouping to an
otherwise disparate and commodity range of goods and services.
Apache is a brand too, and, IMHO, a much stronger brand than Jak
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
Radical view: allow the subprojects to send 1-2 delegates to the PMC and
require each subproject to send one or die. This would size the PMC, assure
that "heart attack in the crowd" syndrome doesn't take place and make the
discussion more manageable. Have the sub projects
Harish Krishnaswamy wrote:
ASF is a group of projects administered by the Apache board members. The
board delegates certain responsibilities over to the PMCs of the
individual projects while still maintaining the authority and management
responsibilities. The PMC is responsible for a wholesome c
Quoting Harish Krishnaswamy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Thanks Craig, this is elaborate, informative and puts the issue in my
> perspective. May be this
> should be put on the website too somewhere.
>
> Here are my inferences so far...
>
>
> ASF is a group of projects administered by the Apache boa
Thanks Craig, this is elaborate, informative and puts the issue in my perspective. May be this
should be put on the website too somewhere.
Here are my inferences so far...
ASF is a group of projects administered by the Apache board members. The board delegates certain
responsibilities over to
Ted Husted wrote:
Michael Davey wrote:
Jakarta is the *brand*. It defines itself. Jakarta brand
development. A brand can give a unique identity and grouping to an
otherwise disparate and commodity range of goods and services.
Apache is a brand too, and, IMHO, a much stronger brand than Ja
;
> Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 22:26:44 -0800
> To: Jakarta General List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Harish Krishnaswamy
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: Jakarta General List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Jakarta: Confederation or Single Project?
>
> Quoting Harish Kris
On Dec 19, 2003, at 8:01 AM, Ted Husted wrote:
Michael Davey wrote:
Jakarta is the *brand*. It defines itself. Jakarta brand
development. A brand can give a unique identity and grouping to an
otherwise disparate and commodity range of goods and services.
Apache is a brand too, and, IMHO, a muc
Michael Davey wrote:
Jakarta is the *brand*. It defines itself. Jakarta brand development.
A brand can give a unique identity and grouping to an otherwise
disparate and commodity range of goods and services.
Apache is a brand too, and, IMHO, a much stronger brand than Jakarta.
I believe Jaka
Harish Krishnaswamy wrote:
How about Jakarta = "Java Development"? Then, they all seem in place, no?
Henri Yandell wrote:
Because it's wrong.
XML has lots of Java bits, and Maven, Ant, Cocoon, Avalon, James are all
Java Development and not in Jakarta.
Jakarta is the *brand*. It defines itsel
- Original Message -
From: "Craig R. McClanahan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Harish
Krishnaswamy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, D
Quoting Harish Krishnaswamy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Could someone please explain the motivation behind the creation of Jakarta
> and how it got to where
> it is today? May be that would help answer some of the questions we have?
>
> -Harish
>
These comments are going to be (like anyone's would
ta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: Jakarta: Confederation or Single Project?
> Could someone please explain the motivation behind the creation of Jakarta
and how it
Could someone please explain the motivation behind the creation of Jakarta and how it got to where
it is today? May be that would help answer some of the questions we have?
-Harish
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
F
Costin Manolache wrote:
> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>> Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>>> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>>>There is a difference between a hierarchy and a confederation. There
is absolutely nothing that says that we cannot have:
[list of PMCs]
All without a single change to the Jakar
Henri Yandell wrote:
> XML has lots of Java bits, and Maven, Ant, Cocoon, Avalon,
> James are all Java Development and not in Jakarta.
> If we go with this approach, we end up with the continuation of: "should
> digester be in jakarta or xml" etc. Does XML take precedence over the
> fact it's in
Stephen Colebourne wrote:
Not really (my POV)
As people we naturally think in terms of the hierarchy
ASF to Jakarta to MySubProject.
But the middle layer is artificial. It could just as well be XML or DB or
WebApps or Java or C or 'Projects starting with S' or 'Projects where Joe
Bloggs works'.
I like the idea but does this mean we will be dumping the Jakarta banner? Or will it serve as an
incubator for TLPs? The Jakarta banner has earned quite a reputation and would be a shame to dump it.
-Harish
Stephen Colebourne wrote:
Not really (my POV)
As people we naturally think in terms of
Not really (my POV)
As people we naturally think in terms of the hierarchy
ASF to Jakarta to MySubProject.
But the middle layer is artificial. It could just as well be XML or DB or
WebApps or Java or C or 'Projects starting with S' or 'Projects where Joe
Bloggs works'. There simply is no one way
That's true, so back to Jakarta = "Server side web development"! But is it restricted only to Java
web development or just plain web development?
-Harish
Henri Yandell wrote:
Because it's wrong.
XML has lots of Java bits, and Maven, Ant, Cocoon, Avalon, James are all
Java Development and not i
Because it's wrong.
XML has lots of Java bits, and Maven, Ant, Cocoon, Avalon, James are all
Java Development and not in Jakarta.
If we go with this approach, we end up with the continuation of: "should
digester be in jakarta or xml" etc. Does XML take precedence over the fact
it's in Java, or d
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 20:24:00 -0500
(Subject: Re: Jakarta: Confederation or Single Project?)
Harish Krishnaswamy wrote:
> How about Jakarta = "Java Development"? Then, they all seem in place, no?
>
> -Harish
+1. Agreed.
Why don't Jakarta adopt "EU"-like gover
How about Jakarta = "Java Development"? Then, they all seem in place, no?
-Harish
Henri Yandell wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Costin Manolache wrote:
IMO it would be sad if projects like struts or tapestry leave jakarta -
since they are closely related to web development and "server side" java
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003, Costin Manolache wrote:
> IMO it would be sad if projects like struts or tapestry leave jakarta -
> since they are closely related to web development and "server side" java
> ( compared with log4j or regexp for example ).
So, Jakarta = "Server side web development" is the
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
There is a difference between a hierarchy and a confederation. There
is absolutely nothing that says that we cannot have:
Jakarta PMC: responsible for jakarta-site/jakarta-site2
Tomcat PMC: tomcat and related code
Struts
On Dec 18, 2003, at 4:41 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
There is a difference between a hierarchy and a confederation. There
is absolutely nothing that says that we cannot have:
Jakarta PMC: responsible for jakarta-site/jakarta-site2
Tomcat PMC: t
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