Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help: boot loader info
Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 09:45:10 -0500, Dale wrote: > >>> I like rEFIind, but I recall it needs/needed a separate /boot >>> partition if you are running LVM/RAID. >>> >> I have /boot on ext2, / on ext4 and rest on LVM on my main system. On >> the 770T rig, I have /boot on ext2 I think and everything else on ext4. > If you are using EFI, you need a FAT partition as the ESP, so you may as > well make that /boot to keep things simple. > > Yea. I read somewhere that is the correct way. I think that is picked because everything, including Linux, can read that file system. I think I read somewhere that the mobo has to be able to read that and it's not like mobos on their own have a lot of space for BIOS stuff or whatever what EFI mobos use is called. I'll likely watch some youtube videos and read some howtos shortly before the mobo, CPU and such start coming in. No need doing that now. I have trouble remembering what I went to the kitchen for. :/ Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help: boot loader info
On 2023-10-19, Dale wrote:
> That config kinda reminds me of the old grub. A title line, location of
> kernel and then options. Sounds easy enough. The new grub config is
> almost impossible to config by hand. They had to make a tool to do it.
> That says a lot there. ;-)
Manually configuring Grub2 for a single OS is pretty trivial. Here's
a typical grub.cfg file:
-grub.cfg
timeout=10
default=0
root (hd0,0)
menuentry vmlinuz-5.15.135-gentoo {
linux /boot/vmlinuz-5.15.135-gentoo root=/dev/sda1
}
menuentry vmlinuz-5.10.76-gentoo-r1 {
linux /boot/vmlinuz-5.10.76-gentoo-r1 root=/dev/sda1
}
If you want to get fancy and use labels and UUIDs, it looks like this
--grub.cfg--
search --no-floppy --label ROOT --set root
timeout=10
default=0
menuentry vmlinuz-5.15.135-gentoo {
linux /boot/vmlinuz-5.15.135-gentoo
root=PARTUUID=fd96ac2d-5521-c043-9fdb-5067b48fb063
}
menuentry vmlinuz-5.15.127-gentoo {
linux /boot/vmlinuz-5.15.127-gentoo
root=PARTUUID=fd96ac2d-5521-c043-9fdb-5067b48fb063
}
Most distros add 2 or 3 layers of obsfucation on top of grub.cfg with
scripts upon scripts upon scripts that read a dozen or so config files
and automagically detect kernels and initrds and other OSes and then
generate a grub.cfg file containing many hundreds of lines of stuff.
If you just boot one OS with a "main" kernel and a "backup" kernel,
then all you need is what you see above.
RE: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help: boot loader info
> >That config kinda reminds me of the old grub. A title line, location of >kernel and then options. Sounds easy enough. The new grub config is almost >impossible to config by hand. They had to make a tool to do it. That says a >lot there. ;-) > >Dale > You can still write that kind of config for the new grub if you want. Load what drivers you need, and then a menuentry with title, kernel, initramfs, etc. The rest of the boilerplate is to support dynamically finding the boot drive if something changes with your disks and to enable tools like grub-reboot. Handy features, and the grub-mkconfig is quicker and easier than editing even a simple config by hand. But if you really want to do it yourself that still works. LMP
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help
Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 18:24:41 -0500, Dale wrote: > >>> Do you mean booting from the ISO images? That's a GRUB thing, it >>> doesn't matter how it is loaded, EFI or MBR. >>> >>> However, being able to do away with GRUB is, to me, a bigger benefit >>> than not being able to boot ISOs is a drawback. Use either >>> systemd-boot (it doesn't need systemd) or rEFInd. >> On my main rig, BIOS type, in my /boot I have memtest. Grub adds a >> entry for it. I guess I could also but Knoppix or something in there as >> well. I was just wondering if that is still a option with efi. I'd >> think it is. After all, it's like like being able to boot either Linux >> or windoze. Lots of people dual boot and I'm sure efi hasn't changed >> that. > Oh yes, you can boot memtest because that's a ramdisk image, it's only > ISOs that are restricted to Grub. Having said that, many live distros can > be booted from any bootloader if you copy the files from the ISO. I > always have SystemRescue in my /boot partition. > > I think it was Frank that posted about Ventoy. When I was installing stuff on the 770T, I used that. I got Knoppix, Ubuntu, Debian, memtest, a couple Gentoo thing, CRC which I think replaced Systemrescue and Systemrescue itself. I really like that thing. It's awesome. Still, when I build the new rig, I'm going to try to make /boot around 6 or 8GBs. That should be big enough for several images and remain large enough as they grow. Options. So many options. lol Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help: boot loader info
On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 09:45:10 -0500, Dale wrote: > > I like rEFIind, but I recall it needs/needed a separate /boot > > partition if you are running LVM/RAID. > > > > I have /boot on ext2, / on ext4 and rest on LVM on my main system. On > the 770T rig, I have /boot on ext2 I think and everything else on ext4. If you are using EFI, you need a FAT partition as the ESP, so you may as well make that /boot to keep things simple. -- Neil Bothwick An expert is nothing more than an ordinary person away from home. pgps3LiqZUghE.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help: boot loader info
On Thursday, 19 October 2023 12:59:06 BST Neil Bothwick wrote: > Incidentally, systemd-boot can also generate and update boot menu entries > automatically with "bootctl install" and "bootctl update" although I have > never tried either. Yes, that's what I use. Once your kernel is complete, with ramdisk etc., make a copy of /boot somewhere, then "bootctl install", copy the loader.conf from your copy, then "bootctl update". Older versions of bootctl used to create a /boot// directory, where nn was a 32-digit hex number, in which we were supposed to put our boot entries: far too complex for Gentoo, so I just deleted that directory. -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help: boot loader info
Michael wrote: > On Thursday, 19 October 2023 05:49:25 BST Dale wrote: >> Neil Bothwick wrote: >>> On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 17:27:28 -0500, Dale wrote: I used cgdisk and GPT for my disk even tho it is small, only 300GBs or so, mostly out of habit. The grub install failed and I did a search. I found this and it worked. grub-install fails with "grub-install: warning: this GPT partition label contains no BIOS Boot Partition; embedding won't be possible." > If you are booting a BIOS MoBo, or an EFI MoBo in 'BIOS Legacy' mode, from a > disk which contains a GPT partitioning scheme, then you will need a separate > partition created as type 'BIOS Boot Partition' for GRUB to install its > core.img: > > GRUB's Stage 1 boot.img is still installed in sector 0 on a GPT disk, same as > on a disk with an MBR partition table. However, on a GPT disk GRUB's Stage > 1.5 core.img with all its filesystem drivers has to be installed in a > partition of its own, because unlike an MBR disk sectors 1 to 62 are not > empty > but contain the GPT header and the GPT partition list. Without its > filesystem > drivers GRUB won't be able to access its modules in its Stage 2 filesystem, > which is stored in the OS /boot/ partition, or its grubx64.efi UEFI > executable. > > It helps to get straight before you start an installation what combo of MoBo > and type of disk partition tables you intend to use: > > BIOS Vs EFI > MBR Vs GPT > When I did the install on the old 770T, I used GPT, out of habit to be honest. I have very few small drives here. Heck, I'm up to buying 18TB drives now. Anyway, grub gave me a error when I tried to install it. I searched and found the sequence of commands that I posted in another reply. It uses parted. Anyway, it worked after that. Thing is, by the time you get to the part about installing grub, you have also installed most of the OS. Going back and using MBR means reinstalling. I plan to check into those parted commands and see what it does and if I can grasp it. :/ >>> Simple answer, don't use GRUB :-) >>> >>> Seriously, GRUB is a bootloader, EFI is a bootloader. You are using one >>> bootloader to load another bootloader before booting the system. >>> >>> rEFIind and systemd-boot are both boot managers, they work with the EFI >>> bootloader - or you can boot a kernel directly without a boot manager, >>> but I prefer not to do that as it gives no opportunity to edit options >>> when booting. > I like rEFIind, but I recall it needs/needed a separate /boot partition if > you > are running LVM/RAID. > I have /boot on ext2, / on ext4 and rest on LVM on my main system. On the 770T rig, I have /boot on ext2 I think and everything else on ext4. I don't think I used LVM on it. I even put /usr and /var on the / partition. I didn't get fancy or anything. I did put /home on its own partition. I'm not sure why really. I'll look into rEFIind then. If you like it, it has to be good. ;-) >>> If you like simple, here is a config file I use with systemd-boot >>> >>> version 6.1.57-gentoo >>> linux /vmlinuz-6.1.57-gentoo >>> options root=/dev/sda3 panic=10 net.ifnames=0 i915.enable_ips=0 >>> >>> That's it! There is a separate file for each menu entry, but they are >>> this simple. There's also a global loader.conf, that runs to a massive 2 >>> lines here! >> Right now, I'm still using BIOS type boot. I've read where you and a >> couple others use something else and they do sound good but I just >> haven't got the nerve up to switch. When I build a new rig, I'll likely >> get into some other boot manager. In a way I kinda dread it but on the >> other hand, I just might like it. You and several others make the other >> options sound really good. >> >> That config kinda reminds me of the old grub. A title line, location of >> kernel and then options. Sounds easy enough. The new grub config is >> almost impossible to config by hand. They had to make a tool to do it. >> That says a lot there. ;-) > Not really, the GRUB developers were trying to make maintaining a boot > manager > simpler by scripting the process and offering to hook it up from binary > distros' kernel install scripts. Anyway, you can still write the > configuration by hand if you follow the GRUB2 syntax. You do not need to run > GRUB's grub-mkconfig script to automatically update the grub.cfg file if you > prefer to do it manually, but it is certainly simpler to use it since it is > already there for you. > The one thing I like about the new grub, if the kernel is named wrong, the init thingy is named wrong or some other problem with the config, it will tell you when you run the script. I always check to make sure it finds both the kernel and init thingy in sets. I have three kernels I think and one init thingy for each. They should list in pairs. If I name one wrong, it will miss it. With the old grub, you found out you messed up when you rebooted
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help: boot loader info
On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 12:55:43 +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote: > > That config kinda reminds me of the old grub. A title line, location > > of kernel and then options. Sounds easy enough. The new grub config > > is almost impossible to config by hand. They had to make a tool to > > do it. That says a lot there. ;-) > > GRUB2 was designed to be able to create a config for anything > automatically, such as from an installer. It does that very well, but is > total overkill for Gentoo-like people that like to stay in control. Incidentally, systemd-boot can also generate and update boot menu entries automatically with "bootctl install" and "bootctl update" although I have never tried either. -- Neil Bothwick STATUS QUO is Latin for "the mess we're in." pgp0FGL_4LVxf.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help: boot loader info
On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 23:49:25 -0500, Dale wrote: > That config kinda reminds me of the old grub. A title line, location of > kernel and then options. Sounds easy enough. The new grub config is > almost impossible to config by hand. They had to make a tool to do it. > That says a lot there. ;-) GRUB2 was designed to be able to create a config for anything automatically, such as from an installer. It does that very well, but is total overkill for Gentoo-like people that like to stay in control. -- Neil Bothwick Keep your words soft and sweet in case you have to eat them. pgpkxfqnMfxX7.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help
On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 18:24:41 -0500, Dale wrote: > > Do you mean booting from the ISO images? That's a GRUB thing, it > > doesn't matter how it is loaded, EFI or MBR. > > > > However, being able to do away with GRUB is, to me, a bigger benefit > > than not being able to boot ISOs is a drawback. Use either > > systemd-boot (it doesn't need systemd) or rEFInd. > On my main rig, BIOS type, in my /boot I have memtest. Grub adds a > entry for it. I guess I could also but Knoppix or something in there as > well. I was just wondering if that is still a option with efi. I'd > think it is. After all, it's like like being able to boot either Linux > or windoze. Lots of people dual boot and I'm sure efi hasn't changed > that. Oh yes, you can boot memtest because that's a ramdisk image, it's only ISOs that are restricted to Grub. Having said that, many live distros can be booted from any bootloader if you copy the files from the ISO. I always have SystemRescue in my /boot partition. -- Neil Bothwick Linux users do it without paying a Bill pgpf6f1DRtnlA.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help
On Thursday, 19 October 2023 00:06:43 BST Neil Bothwick wrote: > If you like simple, here is a config file I use with systemd-boot > > version 6.1.57-gentoo > linux /vmlinuz-6.1.57-gentoo > options root=/dev/sda3 panic=10 net.ifnames=0 i915.enable_ips=0 > > That's it! There is a separate file for each menu entry, but they are > this simple. There's also a global loader.conf, that runs to a massive 2 > lines here! Just to expand this in case it helps someone, and because the wiki article on systemd-boot is not very helpful: I like to keep one recent kernel along with the current one, as fallback. I also have a small rescue partition on the same disk, and that also has two kernels. The main system has a choice of three boot options: standard, no X and no network, and the rescue system the same but without the no-X. That gives the following structure on this machine: # ls -1 /boot/v* /boot/vmlinuz-6.1.46-gentoo /boot/vmlinuz-6.1.46-gentoo-rescue /boot/vmlinuz-6.1.57-gentoo /boot/vmlinuz-6.1.57-gentoo-rescue # tree -L 3 /boot/loader /boot/loader ├── entries │ ├── 06-gentoo-rescue-6.1.46.conf │ ├── 07-gentoo-rescue-6.1.46.nonet.conf │ ├── 08-gentoo-rescue-6.1.46.conf │ ├── 09-gentoo-rescue-6.1.46.nonet.conf │ ├── 30-gentoo-6.1.57.conf │ ├── 32-gentoo-6.1.57.nox.conf │ ├── 34-gentoo-6.1.57.nonet.conf │ ├── 40-gentoo-6.1.46.conf │ ├── 42-gentoo-6.1.46.nox.conf │ └── 44-gentoo-6.1.46.nonet.conf ├── loader.conf └── random-seed The random seed was put there by systemd-boot. I think I have most eventualities covered. (Hah!) -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help: boot loader info
On Thursday, 19 October 2023 05:49:25 BST Dale wrote: > Neil Bothwick wrote: > > On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 17:27:28 -0500, Dale wrote: > >> I used cgdisk and GPT for my disk even tho it is small, only 300GBs or > >> so, mostly out of habit. The grub install failed and I did a search. I > >> found this and it worked. > >> > >> > >> > >> grub-install fails with "grub-install: warning: this GPT partition label > >> contains no BIOS Boot Partition; embedding won't be possible." If you are booting a BIOS MoBo, or an EFI MoBo in 'BIOS Legacy' mode, from a disk which contains a GPT partitioning scheme, then you will need a separate partition created as type 'BIOS Boot Partition' for GRUB to install its core.img: GRUB's Stage 1 boot.img is still installed in sector 0 on a GPT disk, same as on a disk with an MBR partition table. However, on a GPT disk GRUB's Stage 1.5 core.img with all its filesystem drivers has to be installed in a partition of its own, because unlike an MBR disk sectors 1 to 62 are not empty but contain the GPT header and the GPT partition list. Without its filesystem drivers GRUB won't be able to access its modules in its Stage 2 filesystem, which is stored in the OS /boot/ partition, or its grubx64.efi UEFI executable. It helps to get straight before you start an installation what combo of MoBo and type of disk partition tables you intend to use: BIOS Vs EFI MBR Vs GPT > > Simple answer, don't use GRUB :-) > > > > Seriously, GRUB is a bootloader, EFI is a bootloader. You are using one > > bootloader to load another bootloader before booting the system. > > > > rEFIind and systemd-boot are both boot managers, they work with the EFI > > bootloader - or you can boot a kernel directly without a boot manager, > > but I prefer not to do that as it gives no opportunity to edit options > > when booting. I like rEFIind, but I recall it needs/needed a separate /boot partition if you are running LVM/RAID. > > If you like simple, here is a config file I use with systemd-boot > > > > version 6.1.57-gentoo > > linux /vmlinuz-6.1.57-gentoo > > options root=/dev/sda3 panic=10 net.ifnames=0 i915.enable_ips=0 > > > > That's it! There is a separate file for each menu entry, but they are > > this simple. There's also a global loader.conf, that runs to a massive 2 > > lines here! > > Right now, I'm still using BIOS type boot. I've read where you and a > couple others use something else and they do sound good but I just > haven't got the nerve up to switch. When I build a new rig, I'll likely > get into some other boot manager. In a way I kinda dread it but on the > other hand, I just might like it. You and several others make the other > options sound really good. > > That config kinda reminds me of the old grub. A title line, location of > kernel and then options. Sounds easy enough. The new grub config is > almost impossible to config by hand. They had to make a tool to do it. > That says a lot there. ;-) Not really, the GRUB developers were trying to make maintaining a boot manager simpler by scripting the process and offering to hook it up from binary distros' kernel install scripts. Anyway, you can still write the configuration by hand if you follow the GRUB2 syntax. You do not need to run GRUB's grub-mkconfig script to automatically update the grub.cfg file if you prefer to do it manually, but it is certainly simpler to use it since it is already there for you. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
