Re: [gentoo-user] Re: about the 2007.1
Neil Bothwick wrote: On Thu, 8 Nov 2007 13:05:18 +, Guanqun Lu wrote: We can't expect that all the Gentoo users should be a linux geek first, and then have a try on Gentoo linux sytem. Why not? Gentoo is aimed at more experienced users, Linux novices are already amply catered for by other distros. I would never recommend Gentoo to a new Linux user, in the same way that I wouldn't recommend a Ferrari to a learner driver. Anyway, you need to use other distros first to truly appreciate Gentoo :) Well said. I used Mandrake for a while before switching to Gentoo. Gentoo for someone new to Linux is doable but not recommended. That said, a graphical installer would not bug me as long as I can do it the command line way. I just like the old way myself. To old to change maybe? :/ Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: about the 2007.1
On Thu, 8 Nov 2007 13:05:18 +, Guanqun Lu wrote: We can't expect that all the Gentoo users should be a linux geek first, and then have a try on Gentoo linux sytem. Why not? Gentoo is aimed at more experienced users, Linux novices are already amply catered for by other distros. I would never recommend Gentoo to a new Linux user, in the same way that I wouldn't recommend a Ferrari to a learner driver. Anyway, you need to use other distros first to truly appreciate Gentoo :) -- Neil Bothwick Jimi Hendrix's modem was a Purple Hayes. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: about the 2007.1
On Thu, 8 Nov 2007 02:24:49 + (UTC), James wrote: All you have said presupposes one (erroneous) assumption: that is an easy to use graphical install cannot be used if the distro is source code based. Nothing could be further from the truth. An easy to use graphical installation, should only be for getting the HD prepared, kernel installed and a minimum number of software packages installed. Then the customizing could continue as is normal via the handbook. At which point the new user is diving into the handbook partway though, missing important information from the first part. There is no point in using graphical installer if users still need to drop to the command line to administer the system, and if you want an all graphical installation and administration environment, use YaST. A nice graphical installation process would help the distro grow and gain presence in more places, which is always a good thing. Don't confuse quantity and quality. Simpler installation and administration of a number of machines, not necessarily identical, would do more for the take up of Gentoo in areas where it could really benefit. Distros survive, regardless of being free or for sell, because they attract a large user base. Gentoo needs an easy to use, graphical installation CD, period. All that would do is increase the number of disaffected users. You need to read the documentation and use the command line to use Gentoo effectively, hiding that behind a pretty pointy-clicky installer until the system is installed and then hitting the user with the truth can leave them feeling conned. What is wrong with being honest about the situation and telling people up front if you are not prepared for some reading and typing, Gentoo is not for you. The Gentoo Installer Project has some good goals, but attracting people for whom Gentoo is not the right choice should not be one of them. -- Neil Bothwick THE BORG: Calm, Cool and Collective... signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: about the 2007.1
Neil Bothwick wrote: All that would do is increase the number of disaffected users. You need to read the documentation and use the command line to use Gentoo effectively, hiding that behind a pretty pointy-clicky installer until the system is installed and then hitting the user with the truth can leave them feeling conned. What is wrong with being honest about the situation and telling people up front if you are not prepared for some reading and typing, Gentoo is not for you. The Gentoo Installer Project has some good goals, but attracting people for whom Gentoo is not the right choice should not be one of them. +1 My 2c - the live cd is great - providing a nice environment for installation, and what sort of installation you may ask?... well a character based installation of course - following the fine instructions in the handbook! I think we need to realize that Gentoo is a 'mildly expert required' type of distribution - and thats a good thing! For those who want graphical-point-click there is Ubuntu et al (I used Yellow Dog for a while for this very reason when starting out with Linux). regards Mark -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Multiple Routes to the same Subnet
Google bonding linux. Basically at the ethernet level you make eth[0-3] = bond0. You'll then have the bandwidth of all the nics as one nic. Your switch might need some extra setup - but this is the best way to go. On 11/8/07, kashani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dan Farrell wrote: Thanks for your responses, all. On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 10:30:22 -0800 kashani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First off don't assign separate IPs to each port on your four port card, bond them into a single interface. That will simplify your config and perform better. Perhaps I will; that's not a bad idea. However, I will still have another interface that is to handle non-NFS traffic. (The reason I split it this way, by the way, is that NFS is the only network service that might potentially be limited by bandwith. Second, what sort of routing are you doing? If all the clients are on the same subnet as the four port card you should not need routing. Additionally if they are on the same subnet you should not be limited by the speed of your gateway which may or may not be able to route at 4 Gb/s whereas your switch may actually have that sort of performaance. Are the clients on a separate subnet and if so can you put them on the same subnet? No, they're all on the same subnet. Each of the 5 interfaces adds a route to that subnet (no gateway, as you said, it's the same broadcast domain) but the routes all have different metrics. The first such route chosen is the one that gets all the traffic. The NFS server is used primarily for Read access, so this routing problem does a pretty good job mitigating any benefit of having so many interfaces. Oh, by the way, this is 100-T, not Gigabit. Do I sound rich to you : ) ? Buying a single GigE card would appear to be simpler and cheaper unless you don't have a GigE switch. :-) So, let's say I bond the 4 together. Now I have 2 interfaces, a bond and eth0. I still need to route through one or the other, so I still have the problem. I am reading about policy routing, which should be able to solve the problem by allowing routing based on the source rather than the destination. I will keep the lists informed... You should not need to do any routing and I'd be surprised if Linux is actually doing any routing in this case. However depending on how you are testing you might see some issues. Let's assume you've got this network. server eth0 10.11.12.21/24 server eth1 10.11.12.22/24 client1 eth0 10.11.12.101/24 client2 eth0 10.11.12.102/24 The server will have all sorts of nonsense about 10.11.12.21 255.255.255.255 routes and you can ignore all that. Additionally when you initiate a connection from your server it will always originate from eth0 because 0 comes before 1 IIRC. Just one of those things. However when you initiate a connection from a client to eth1 the server should respond out the same interface. I'd play around with tcpdump on a client and see if this is happening like it should be. You might also try forcing portmap to bind to one IP in /etc/conf.d/portmap. If for some reason I'm completely off base and Linux is defaulting out eth0 for connections coming into eth1 you can always do the lo tech solution. Assuming the above network we then assign a separate subnet to eth1 and an alias to each client. server eth0 10.11.12.21/24 server eth1 10.11.88.21/24 client1 eth0 10.11.12.101/24 client1 eth0:0 10.11.88.101/24 client2 eth0 10.11.12.102/24 client2 eth0:0 10.11.88.102/24 The machines connect on 10.11.88.0/24 and you avoid any interface confusion. kashani -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Re: OT: Is EVMS dead?
Eric S. Johansson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alexander Skwar wrote: Eric S. Johansson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dirk Heinrichs wrote: pvcreate /dev/hda vgcreate data /dev/hda lvcreate -L42g data mkfs /dev/data/lvol0 What's so hard about that? Does that fit on a postcard? it needs a little more detail so a user can extrapolate to what they need but, The detail can be found in the howto; eg. http://tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/index.html What is hard however is developing the postcard level documentation for disaster recovery. - Get new drive - Do as mentioned above - Get stuff from backup Pretty short, if you ask me ;) -v: pvcreate /dev/hda: Intialize the device as a physical volume (pv), so that it can be used by LVM. One time job. would need reference physical volume, physical device associations (i.e. single disc or hardware raid). What? is there any way to display/enumerate them independent of non-LVM devices? Pardon? vgcreate data /dev/hda: Create a container called data which will hold the different sub-containers. The data container is made up of the /dev/hda physical volume. what is a sub container? Exactly. why is it needed? when do you need it? That's too basic. People asking that kind of question shouldn't be administering a system. do/can you create a container spanning multiple devices? When, how, why? See howto. lvcreate -L42g data: Create a logical volume (lv) on the data volume group (vg). It's sized 42g (42GiB). again, is a logical volume a single physical volume? They don't belong together. See the howto. If the volume group called data (how did it get from container to volume group) What? is the same as the physical volume, It isn't. As explained in the howto. why not just use the physical volume? What? mkfs /dev/data/lvol0: Create a file system on the newly created lv. in other words, the logical volume is treated by the system in exactly the same way as a physical volume. Nope. It's a logical disk. What? these are just some of the naïve user questions that come to mind. Those users shouldn't admin a system. They aren't answers concisely in most of the documentation I have seen. Part of the reason I say explain it on a postcard is because the format forces you to focus your thoughts and explain the system concisely. And those useless questions are because you wanted a postcard explanation. with your users or the implementation is really off. Nope. Some things simply *ARE* complicated. Richard Feynman, a great physicist, once stated that if you can not explain a (physics) problem at a freshman level then you don't understand the problem. Might be. But you need to have more space than a postcard. Edward Tufte has a series of books on information design simplifying complicated things so that you can communicate clearly. Either of these men are smarter than you and I put together. That's not hard (well, at least as far as being smarter than me is concerned *G*). Alexander Skwar -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] man mount ?!
I found this by chance: http://linux.die.net/man/8/mount Somewhat different from the output of man mount. What is happening here? Things like mount --make-shared mountpoint mount --make-slave mountpoint mount --make-private mountpoint mount --make-unbindable mountpoint are just ignored in my (updated) system. Any idea? -- Jorge Almeida -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Multiple Routes to the same Subnet
On Thursday 08 November 2007 00:26:18 Dan Farrell wrote: So, let's say I bond the 4 together. Now I have 2 interfaces, a bond and eth0. I still need to route through one or the other, so I still have the problem. So you've got 5 interfaces? Once you've bonded interfaces together the underlying ethX interfaces are not referenced anymore. They do all get the same MAC address, however it's not permenent, the next boot they'll be back (until bonding loads and they're enslaved obviously). -- Mike Williams -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc upgrade - re-emerge system?
On Donnerstag, 8. November 2007, Alexander Skwar wrote: Hello! This morning, I upgraded to glibc 2.7 from whatever used to be current in ~x86 before that (2.6.). Do you guys do a emerge -e system, ie. recompile everything, after such an upgrade? Thanks, Alexander Skwar no -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] glibc upgrade - re-emerge system?
Hello! This morning, I upgraded to glibc 2.7 from whatever used to be current in ~x86 before that (2.6.). Do you guys do a emerge -e system, ie. recompile everything, after such an upgrade? Thanks, Alexander Skwar -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc upgrade - re-emerge system?
On (08/11/07 10:14) Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote: On Donnerstag, 8. November 2007, Alexander Skwar wrote: Hello! This morning, I upgraded to glibc 2.7 from whatever used to be current in ~x86 before that (2.6.). Do you guys do a emerge -e system, ie. recompile everything, after such an upgrade? Thanks, Alexander Skwar no +1 but run revdep-rebuild -i -p -v, just to be on the safe side. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list Rumen -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Trying to install binary package - Endless loop of cache miss?
Hello.
I'm trying to install one package from a binary package http host.
To do so, I added to my make.conf:
PORTAGE_BINHOST=http://public-files.askwar.gentoo-packages.s3.amazonaws.com/GentooUSB/packages/All/;
Now I'm running:
winnb000488 / # emerge --verbose --debug --getbinpkgonly -pt zip
myaction None
myopts {'--tree': True, '--usepkgonly': True, '--pretend': True, '--getbinpkg':
True, '--buildpkg': True, '--alphabetical': True, '--verbose': True, '--debug':
True, '--getbinpkgonly': True, '--usepkg': True}
These are the packages that would be merged, in reverse order:
Calculating dependencies Fetching binary packages info...
cache miss: 'x' --- cache hit: 'o'
And the x keep on appearing.
What's taking so long there? The directory index isn't that big (51k, see
http://public-files.askwar.s3.amazonaws.com/public-files.askwar.gentoo-packages.s3.amazonaws.com_GentooUSB_packages_All.index.htm).
Thanks,
Alexander Skwar
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Daylight savings time
On Thu, 8 Nov 2007, James wrote: In my /etc/conf.d/clock file I have these relevant settings: CLOCK=local TIMEZONE=America/New_York CLOCK_SYSTOHC=yes it's a dual boot (XP gentoo) workstation. I had to set the time manually to adjust for the 1 hour shift. I guess you mean that in this timezone there was recently a shift due to daylight saving time? Shouldn't this be automatic? This question was recently discussed in the German forums. Here is a summary: Since you have CLOCK=local this can only be automatic if your computer was running during the shift - when you start your computer after the shift, Linux will consider the hardware clock as the correct (already shifted) time information. If the shift happened with your setting although your computer was not running, another program (typically: windows) has done the shifting. Only if you run CLOCK=UTC the shift is guaranteed to work in any case (of course, unless another program like windows interferes). BTW: In case you use FAT, you might also want to consider the solution proposed in http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-579915.html (which will make your hardwareclock also run with a constant offset to utc i.e. the shift will also work reliable, but windows will display the wrong time half of the year. However, the advantage is that filestamps on FAT partitions will never change.) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} method for graphing server stuff?
I was thinking it would be pretty handy to generate a series of transposed (or not) graphs for data like cpu usage, mysql usage, memory usage, external monitoring response times, http traffic, etc. My external monitoring service has an API I can hook into and http traffic is logged to mysql so I'm thinking I have good access to the data, but I need a way to tie it all together into a useful presentation. Is there a good package for this? I think net-analyzer/rrdtool will probably come close to this. It's used by many other solutions, so you'll find a lot of examples on the Web. +1 to rrdtool. At my company, we set up rrdtool to graph 100's of graphs per day on all sorts of data from different sources. It's very customisable, if you want to spend the time on it. I also found the creator and forum very supportive. Is it difficult to plug in data from sources different sources? - Grant -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: OT: Is EVMS dead?
On Thu, Nov 08, 2007 at 11:48:11AM +0100, Alexander Skwar wrote: Pretty short, if you ask me ;) What? Pardon? Exactly. That's too basic. People asking that kind of question shouldn't be administering a system. See howto. They don't belong together. See the howto. What? It isn't. As explained in the howto. What? Nope. What? Those users shouldn't admin a system. And those useless questions are because you wanted a postcard explanation. :-) Nice postcard answers for a postcard brain. Some people refuse to learn anything on their own and want the world to hand it to them on a platter, err, postcard. I like the way you did just what he asked for and it turned out it wasn't what he wanted. -- ... _._. ._ ._. . _._. ._. ___ .__ ._. . .__. ._ .. ._. Felix Finch: scarecrow repairman rocket surgeon / [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG = E987 4493 C860 246C 3B1E 6477 7838 76E9 182E 8151 ITAR license #4933 I've found a solution to Fermat's Last Theorem but I see I've run out of room o -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Daylight savings time
On Thu, Nov 08, 2007 at 02:35:06AM -0500, Philip Webb wrote: 071108 James wrote: In my /etc/conf.d/clock file I have these relevant settings: CLOCK=local That sb utc. I have heard that Windows expects the hardware clock to be in local time, including daylight savings adjustments. Presumably Windows maintains it that way. -- ... _._. ._ ._. . _._. ._. ___ .__ ._. . .__. ._ .. ._. Felix Finch: scarecrow repairman rocket surgeon / [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG = E987 4493 C860 246C 3B1E 6477 7838 76E9 182E 8151 ITAR license #4933 I've found a solution to Fermat's Last Theorem but I see I've run out of room o -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} method for graphing server stuff?
Hi, On Thu, 8 Nov 2007 08:02:58 -0800 Grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was thinking it would be pretty handy to generate a series of transposed (or not) graphs for data like cpu usage, mysql usage, memory usage, external monitoring response times, http traffic, etc. My external monitoring service has an API I can hook into and http traffic is logged to mysql so I'm thinking I have good access to the data, but I need a way to tie it all together into a useful presentation. Is there a good package for this? I think net-analyzer/rrdtool will probably come close to this. It's used by many other solutions, so you'll find a lot of examples on the Web. +1 to rrdtool. At my company, we set up rrdtool to graph 100's of graphs per day on all sorts of data from different sources. It's very customisable, if you want to spend the time on it. I also found the creator and forum very supportive. Is it difficult to plug in data from sources different sources? That depends on the difficulty to aquire this data. rrdtool is basically a database which allows round-robin storage (old data times out) combined with some statistical abilities -- and also has a graphing component. It's your job to e.g. set up cron jobs or daemons which feed the data into it. You would create databases for each monitored entity (or group of entities for the same concept) and then write data into it. Then, on the other side, you could e.g. call it to create graphs that are being served via CGI, written to the desktop, whatever. -hwh -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: about the 2007.1
Neil Bothwick neil at digimed.co.uk writes: All you have said presupposes one (erroneous) assumption: that is an easy to use graphical install cannot be used if the distro is source code based. Nothing could be further from the truth. An easy to use graphical installation, should only be for getting the HD prepared, kernel installed and a minimum number of software packages installed. Then the customizing could continue as is normal via the handbook. At which point the new user is diving into the handbook partway though, missing important information from the first part. There is no point in using graphical installer if users still need to drop to the command line to administer the system, and if you want an all graphical installation and administration environment, use YaST. Well, I forgot to mention that one of my tenants to a graphical installation is that is also be 'unattended'. Input the configuration data and let it run. If it can successfully run, unattended, then it really does not matter if it takes 15 minutes or 15 hours. I disagree with your 'no point.. if you still drop to the comand line I'm not suggesting that Gentoo be run and managed from webmin. I'm just saying a stripped down (see above) installation that gets the basics in place, unattended, after inputing the necessary configuration information would be quite nice. Gentoo servers are very easy to maintain. Workstations (full of X, KDE(Gnome), and apps, are the constant battle). Gentoo could easily attract more small business and users, just by packaging up things like DNS servers, firewalls, webserver, ecommerce servers etc.etc. However, I run those updates at night (unattended) and deal with failures the next day. It's easy just use something like: emerge -uDNv world; emerge --skipfirts --resume; repeated add in an occational revdep-rebuild and you should have a happy system. Gentoo wikis go a long way to 'self help' with gentoo, in my experience. A nice graphical installation process would help the distro grow and gain presence in more places, which is always a good thing. Don't confuse quantity and quality. Simpler installation and administration of a number of machines, not necessarily identical, would do more for the take up of Gentoo in areas where it could really benefit. We totally agree here, but, I do not see the existence of a simplified, gui based installation, as a threat to the (power)heritage of Gentoo. Distros survive, regardless of being free or for sell, because they attract a large user base. Gentoo needs an easy to use, graphical installation CD, period. All that would do is increase the number of disaffected users. You need to read the documentation and use the command line to use Gentoo effectively, AGREED! hiding that behind a pretty pointy-clicky installer until the system is installed and then hitting the user with the truth can leave them feeling conned. What is wrong with being honest about the situation and telling people up front if you are not prepared for some reading and typing, Gentoo is not for you. I totally disagree with you here. I have many of happy gentoo users that are quite novice. Once you install gentoo and get kde-meta running, it's quite easy to maintain a gentoo system and add new apps. For some of the folks, I ssh in remotely to fix/add stuff, the rest, learn compound commands strings, like the one above and do not bother me for months/years at a time. The fact that their software is routinely updated mostly at night, makes them very happy. The aforementioned story about a computer science grad student is very real. He's Indian (from India) very smart and designing chips by prototyping things on FPGA. He knew about Gentoo and wanted it. He had tried to install it before and had trouble (he knows me but did not ask for help) so he opted for Ubuntu.snip Bottom line, if folks like that are not attracted to Gentoo, solely based on the installation medium and the subsequent pain, then, as a distro Gentoo is severely lacking. I am like you, to stubborn to give up on anything I really want to do. Others are not so fortified, in their determination. The Gentoo Installer Project has some good goals, but attracting people for whom Gentoo is not the right choice should not be one of them. Dam bro... I have a lot of respect for you, your skills, and your persistence on this list. YOU have helped me quite a lot over time, even when I was 'dense' about a few things...however Seems like we had that attitude here in America, centuries ago towards black folks... Isn't Gentoo as much of an educational system (about unix and computing and math and engineering and IT and the web and embedded systems and just learning how to be_cool(?), and community; as it is a power tool for techies? Out of the masses Gentoo attracts, there will be more cream that rises to the highest levels, or mankind is doomed (methinks). I'm an
Re: [gentoo-user] Daylight savings time
On 08 November 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Nov 08, 2007 at 02:35:06AM -0500, Philip Webb wrote: 071108 James wrote: In my /etc/conf.d/clock file I have these relevant settings: CLOCK=local That sb utc. I have heard that Windows expects the hardware clock to be in local time, including daylight savings adjustments. Presumably Windows maintains it that way. True. So you should go with local if the box is a dual boot one. Uwe -- If a man speaks in a forest, and no woman listens to him, is he still lying? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Is gentoo-wiki.com down?
Hi, I am trying to get on gentoo-wiki.com. Without luck. Other pages aer working fine, so I do not think, it is a problem of my settings. Regards, Herb -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is gentoo-wiki.com down?
On 11/8/07, Herbert Laubner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I am trying to get on gentoo-wiki.com. Without luck. Other pages aer working fine, so I do not think, it is a problem of my settings. Regards, Herb -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list times out for me -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is gentoo-wiki.com down?
this is a problem with http server at gentoo-wiki.com. server is up and responding to (my) icmp request packet's ;) On Nov 8, 2007 7:32 PM, Kale Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11/8/07, Herbert Laubner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I am trying to get on gentoo-wiki.com. Without luck. Other pages aer working fine, so I do not think, it is a problem of my settings. Regards, Herb -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list times out for me -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list -- Wiedza o tym, jak się uczyć jest najważniejszą umiejętnością w życiu. - Tony Buzan
[gentoo-user] emerge Squeak fails misteriously
Hello people, i have a problem i don't know hoy to approach. When i try to emerge Squeak, it fails throwing the following error message: * * ERROR: dev-lang/squeak-3.9.7 failed. * Call stack: * ebuild.sh, line 1701: Called dyn_compile * ebuild.sh, line 1039: Called qa_call 'src_compile' * ebuild.sh, line 44: Called src_compile * squeak-3.9.7.ebuild, line 44: Called die * The specific snippet of code: * emake || die * The die message: * (no error message) * * If you need support, post the topmost build error, and the call stack if relevant. * A complete build log is located at '/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/squeak- 3.9.7/temp/build.log'. * the emake || die and (no error message) really confuse me, so i don't know where to start looking in order to solve this... so i kindly request your help :D thanks in advance PS: Just in case here is a little more of the output ar/tmp/portage/dev-lang/squeak-3.9.7/work/Squeak-3.9-7 /platforms/unix/plugins/SqueakFFIPrims/x86-sysv-asm.S: Assembler messages: /var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/squeak-3.9.7/work/Squeak-3.9-7 /platforms/unix/plugins/SqueakFFIPrims/x86-sysv-asm.S:45: Error: suffix or operands invalid for `push' /var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/squeak-3.9.7/work/Squeak-3.9-7 /platforms/unix/plugins/SqueakFFIPrims/x86-sysv-asm.S:62: Error: suffix or operands invalid for `pop' make[1]: *** [x86-sysv-asm.o] Error 1 make: *** [SqueakFFIPrims/SqueakFFIPrims.a] Error 2 make: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs gcc -O2 -pipe -march=k8 -DLSB_FIRST=1 -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -DSQUEAK_BUILTIN_PLUGIN -I/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/squeak-3.9.7 /work/Squeak-3.9-7/build -I/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/squeak-3.9.7 /work/Squeak-3.9-7/platforms/unix/vm -I/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/squeak- 3.9.7/work/Squeak-3.9-7/platforms/Cross/vm -I/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/squeak-3.9.7/work/Squeak-3.9-7/platforms/unix/src/vm -I/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/squeak-3.9.7/work/Squeak-3.9-7/platforms/Cross/plugins/FileCopyPlugin -c -o sqUnixFileCopyPlugin.o /var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/squeak-3.9.7 /work/Squeak-3.9-7 /platforms/unix/plugins/FileCopyPlugin/sqUnixFileCopyPlugin.c /var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/squeak-3.9.7/work/Squeak-3.9-7/platforms/unix/plugins/FileCopyPlugin/sqUnixFileCopyPlugin.c: In function 'sqCopyFilesizetosize': /var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/squeak-3.9.7/work/Squeak-3.9-7/platforms/unix/plugins/FileCopyPlugin/sqUnixFileCopyPlugin.c:136: warning: cast from pointer to integer of different size /var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/squeak-3.9.7/work/Squeak-3.9-7/platforms/unix/plugins/FileCopyPlugin/sqUnixFileCopyPlugin.c:137: warning: cast from pointer to integer of different size ar -rc FileCopyPlugin.a FileCopyPlugin.o sqUnixFileCopyPlugin.o ranlib FileCopyPlugin.a * * ERROR: dev-lang/squeak-3.9.7 failed. * Call stack: * ebuild.sh, line 1701: Called dyn_compile * ebuild.sh, line 1039: Called qa_call 'src_compile' * ebuild.sh, line 44: Called src_compile * squeak-3.9.7.ebuild, line 44: Called die * The specific snippet of code: * emake || die * The die message: * (no error message) * * If you need support, post the topmost build error, and the call stack if relevant. * A complete build log is located at '/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/squeak- 3.9.7/temp/build.log'. * * Messages for package dev-lang/squeak-3.9.7: * * ERROR: dev-lang/squeak-3.9.7 failed. * Call stack: * ebuild.sh, line 1701: Called dyn_compile * ebuild.sh, line 1039: Called qa_call 'src_compile' * ebuild.sh, line 44: Called src_compile * squeak-3.9.7.ebuild, line 44: Called die * The specific snippet of code: * emake || die * The die message: * (no error message) * * If you need support, post the topmost build error, and the call stack if relevant. * A complete build log is located at '/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/squeak- 3.9.7/temp/build.log'.
[gentoo-user] Re: about the 2007.1
Neil Bothwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/releng/ says nothing about a November release, or any release date for 2007.1, and that page should be considered authoritative. In my browser, it does say something about a November release of 2007.1. But it also says that dates are estimated and actual release dates may not match the roadmap. So, authoritative in a subject-to-change-without-notice kinda way. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Daylight savings time
On Thu, 2007-11-08 at 17:29 -0500, Eric Martin wrote: Why copy? when stuff gets updated you'll have to copy again. I'd suggest making a symlink. Also, I see the timestamps and sizes are the same, but are the md5's the same? If not, these aren't the same file. /random longshot suggestion Copy is what the emerge does. So when it's updated you get the fresh one for free. Actually, originally it was (suggested) that localtime was a symlink. This was later changed. The reasoning for the change are as follows. /etc/init.d/clock is run pretty early in the init process; before all filesystems in /etc/fstab are mounted. If /usr/share/zoneinfo is on a filesystem that is not mounted when /etc/init.d/clock is run then it will fail and ugly things will happen. Therefore it's suggested what instead of a symlink /etc/localtime should be a physical file on the (root) filesystem. Probably for most people this is not an issue but apparently it was for some. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] The setup program seems to have failed.
On Thu, 8 Nov 2007 07:31:33 +0200 Rumen Yotov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, The graphical installer is known to fail sometimes (not always :-) Many people prefer the (old) install method - using a terminal. ++. Miernik, I _highly_ recommend using a the manual install method from the gentoo handbook. It's valuable for many reasons, not the least of which being its flexibility. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc upgrade - re-emerge system?
On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 10:05:09 +0100 Alexander Skwar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello! This morning, I upgraded to glibc 2.7 from whatever used to be current in ~x86 before that (2.6.). Do you guys do a emerge -e system, ie. recompile everything, after such an upgrade? Thanks, Alexander Skwar no way dude. The only problem that you might run into is that new packages built thereafter were built against different versions of glibc, and that's what revdep rebuild is for. I think of glibc upgrades as emerges that take a considerable amount of time but are in essence trivial. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Multiple Routes to the same Subnet
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:13:48 -0800 kashani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Buying a single GigE card would appear to be simpler and cheaper unless you don't have a GigE switch. :-) well, it just so happens I don't. (The 4-port card cost me $0). Some day the file servers will have Gigabit, and so will the switch, and they'll have all the hard drives on a bus that's better than PCI (~ more bandwith). Until then, I want to better support my diskless clients without spending money, and without choking up my network services. You should not need to do any routing and I'd be surprised if Linux is actually doing any routing in this case. Of _course_ it's routing. It has to decide what to do with packets in the output queue, doesn't it? Of course if this was all one route the default routing information (one for the subnet, one for the default route) would be enough. What I'm doing here is moving away from the 'one network connection per computer per broadcast domain' philosophy. (Check out the convenient e-book at policyrouting.org if you have interest or are confused. ) That's why this is a routing question. Additionally when you initiate a connection from your server it will always originate from eth0 because 0 comes before 1 IIRC. Just one of those things. It's because of the metric of the routes in the routing table, actually. Without routing, your computer talks to no one. Haven't you ever set up a network connection by hand : ) ? However when you initiate a connection from a client to eth1 the server should respond out the same interface. I'd play around with tcpdump on a client and see if this is happening like it should be. You'd think so, but it doesn't. Give it a try! You can use a virtual interface and a temporary sshd invocation on it's address to convince yourself pretty easily that traffic is generally routed based on the destination and therefore while incoming traffic will go in the server's specified port, all outgoing traffic will go out the route with the lowest metric that matches the destination ... unless policy routing is configured. Please correct me if i'm wrong. I am not a networking professional, really, but this is how it works for me now, with 2 seperate interfaces. I'm pretty much positive about this. The machines connect on 10.11.88.0/24 and you avoid any interface confusion. Only if I refuse to check my work. If I monitor the traffic on the interfaces, I will quickly see that the route with the lowest metric is used for returning traffic. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Multiple Routes to the same Subnet
Dan Farrell wrote: It's because of the metric of the routes in the routing table, actually. Without routing, your computer talks to no one. Haven't you ever set up a network connection by hand : ) ? I hate to pull the expert card, but I was the network engineer/architect who built Netzero's original network so I've got some passing familiarity with this stuff. 1. Routing vs switching Routing only happens if you are moving between subnets ie your server is on 10.11.12.0/24 and your clients are on 10.11.88.0/24. If you're into the OSI model this is layer 3. You said they that the clients and server were on the same subnet so in that case they are not routing, they are switching. Switching is layer 2 and does not require a gateway. My handy analogy for non network engineers is a subnet is the block you live on. You can reach any address on it without crossing the street. If you want to get to another block you need to use a crosswalk. Crosswalks require routing. Because I assumed you were switching the gateway and routes do not matter. So again, are your client AND server IPs on the same subnet or not? 2. broadcast domains Assuming you have a switch (and I'm pretty much done assuming here) broadcast domains are not an issue unless you have a few thousand clients on it. Hubs as opposed to switches send all packets to all ports and that is what causes broadcast storms. If you have a switch it'll create a MAC address lookup table and switch by MAC address directly instead of spamming all ports with all packets. In a simple office network I wouldn't bother subneting the clients from the servers especially since your router is likely to be an order of magnitude slower than your switch. 3. virtual interfaces vs real interfaces Yes virtual interfaces will do weird things. Real interfaces will not. Testing with an real interface instead of an alias, you've got four, should be easy and demonstrate the proper behavior. So cough up a diagram of your network with IPs and masks to explain exactly what you're doing because what you've explained so far makes little sense to a former network professional. kashani -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Daylight savings time
James wrote: Shawn Haggett podge at podgeweb.com writes: In my /etc/conf.d/clock file I have these relevant settings: CLOCK=local TIMEZONE=America/New_York CLOCK_SYSTOHC=yes Is the /etc/localtime file correct? i.e.: $ cp /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/New_York /etc/localtime -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3519 Nov 5 17:39 localtime -rw-r--r-- 3 root root 3519 Nov 5 17:39 /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/New_York Yes. Any other ideas? Maybe I need to 'reemerge' something? James Why copy? when stuff gets updated you'll have to copy again. I'd suggest making a symlink. Also, I see the timestamps and sizes are the same, but are the md5's the same? If not, these aren't the same file. /random longshot suggestion -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: OT: Is EVMS dead?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Nov 08, 2007 at 11:48:11AM +0100, Alexander Skwar wrote: Pretty short, if you ask me ;) What? Pardon? Exactly. That's too basic. People asking that kind of question shouldn't be administering a system. See howto. They don't belong together. See the howto. What? It isn't. As explained in the howto. What? Nope. What? Those users shouldn't admin a system. And those useless questions are because you wanted a postcard explanation. :-) Nice postcard answers for a postcard brain. Some people refuse to learn anything on their own and want the world to hand it to them on a platter, err, postcard. I like the way you did just what he asked for and it turned out it wasn't what he wanted. Any philosophy that can be put in a nutshell belongs there. -- *Sydney J. Harris* -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: about the 2007.1
On Thu, 8 Nov 2007 17:45:44 + (UTC), James wrote: At which point the new user is diving into the handbook partway though, missing important information from the first part. There is no point in using graphical installer if users still need to drop to the command line to administer the system, and if you want an all graphical installation and administration environment, use YaST. Well, I forgot to mention that one of my tenants to a graphical installation is that is also be 'unattended'. Input the configuration data and let it run. If it can successfully run, unattended, then it really does not matter if it takes 15 minutes or 15 hours. So you want an automated install, but that goes against the Gentoo ethos of putting the user in control and also causes problems later because the user does not understand what they have installed. I disagree with your 'no point.. if you still drop to the comand line I'm not suggesting that Gentoo be run and managed from webmin. I'm just saying a stripped down (see above) installation that gets the basics in place, unattended, after inputing the necessary configuration information would be quite nice. What necessary configuration information? In Gentoo, everything is configurable and the user needs to understand this to benefit from Gentoo. However, I run those updates at night (unattended) and deal with failures the next day. How do you deal with those failures if your basic understanding f the system is lacking? hiding that behind a pretty pointy-clicky installer until the system is installed and then hitting the user with the truth can leave them feeling conned. What is wrong with being honest about the situation and telling people up front if you are not prepared for some reading and typing, Gentoo is not for you. I totally disagree with you here. I have many of happy gentoo users that are quite novice. Once you install gentoo and get kde-meta running, it's quite easy to maintain a gentoo system and add new apps. Users or user/administrators? Using Gentoo is no different from using any Linux system, KDE is KDE etc. Administering the system is another matter. Bottom line, if folks like that are not attracted to Gentoo, solely based on the installation medium and the subsequent pain, then, as a distro Gentoo is severely lacking. Only if one if its stated objectives is (or requires) a simplified installation process. Attracting someone with a simple installer then hitting them with reality afterwards is far less friendly. And the Gentoo manual install is not exactly difficult, it just needs a wilingness to read the docs. Dam bro... I have a lot of respect for you, your skills, and your persistence on this list. YOU have helped me quite a lot over time, even when I was 'dense' about a few things...however Seems like we had that attitude here in America, centuries ago towards black folks... Your are comparing a horses for courses attitude to distro development to racism? !! Isn't Gentoo as much of an educational system (about unix and computing and math and engineering and IT and the web and embedded systems and just learning how to be_cool(?), and community; as it is a power tool for techies? Yes it is. How do you learn by clicking a few buttons and letting everything important happen out of sight and without your knowledge or understanding? Out of the masses Gentoo attracts, there will be more cream that rises to the highest levels, or mankind is doomed (methinks). I'm an old, jaded techie, but at least my charity to others is not so...hardened. If you think I am taking the installer is an idiot filter line you are very much mistaken. Gentoo has a purpose, and that purpose is different from the likes of Ubuntu or SUSE. That is not to detract from any of them, but trying to force one to be like another is doing a great disservice to both. If Gentoo is not different, serving a different type of user, what is the point of it? -- Neil Bothwick I'm Pink, Therefore I'm Spam signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Is gentoo-wiki.com down?
On Thu, 8 Nov 2007 19:22:14 +0100 Herbert Laubner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I am trying to get on gentoo-wiki.com. Without luck. Other pages aer working fine, so I do not think, it is a problem of my settings. Regards, Herb Looks like it's down, at least as I'm seeing it. Gentoo-wiki goes down a lot. That's why I keep my documentation elsewhere... -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] dev-games/ogre compilation failure
When I emerge ogre, I get the following error message: i686-pc-linux-gnu-g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../OgreMain/include -I/usr/include/freetype2 -I../../OgreMain/include -DOGRE_NONCLIENT_BUILD -O2 -march=i686 -pipe -I/usr/include/SDL -D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -D_REENTRANT -MT OgreActionTarget.lo -MD -MP -MF .deps/OgreActionTarget.Tpo -c OgreActionTarget.cpp -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/OgreActionTarget.lo rm -f .libs/OgreActionEvent.lo i686-pc-linux-gnu-g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../OgreMain/include -I/usr/include/freetype2 -I../../OgreMain/include -DOGRE_NONCLIENT_BUILD -O2 -march=i686 -pipe -I/usr/include/SDL -D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -D_REENTRANT -MT OgreActionEvent.lo -MD -MP -MF .deps/OgreActionEvent.Tpo -c OgreActionEvent.cpp -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/OgreActionEvent.lo In file included from ../../OgreMain/include/OgrePrerequisites.h:77, from ../../OgreMain/include/OgreActionTarget.h:43, from OgreActionTarget.cpp:28: ../../OgreMain/include/OgreStdHeaders.h:30:23: error: hash_set: No such file or directory ../../OgreMain/include/OgreStdHeaders.h:31:23: error: hash_map: No such file or directory In file included from ../../OgreMain/include/OgrePrerequisites.h:77, from ../../OgreMain/include/OgreString.h:28, from OgreActionEvent.cpp:27: ../../OgreMain/include/OgreStdHeaders.h:30:23: error: hash_set: No such file or directory ../../OgreMain/include/OgreStdHeaders.h:31:23: error: hash_map: No such file or directory ../../OgreMain/include/OgreString.h:64: error: expected initializer before '' token ../../OgreMain/include/OgreString.h:149: error: expected initializer before '' token ../../OgreMain/include/OgreString.h:64: error: expected initializer before '' token ../../OgreMain/include/OgreString.h:149: error: expected initializer before '' token make[2]: *** [OgreActionTarget.lo] Error 1 make[2]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs make[2]: *** [OgreActionEvent.lo] Error 1 make[2]: Leaving directory `/var/tmp/portage/dev-games/ogre-0.15.1 /work/ogrenew/OgreMain/src' make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/var/tmp/portage/dev-games/ogre-0.15.1 /work/ogrenew/OgreMain' make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 * * ERROR: dev-games/ogre-0.15.1 failed. * Call stack: * ebuild.sh, line 1654: Called dyn_compile * ebuild.sh, line 990: Called qa_call 'src_compile' * ebuild.sh, line 44: Called src_compile * ogre-0.15.1.ebuild, line 54: Called die * * emake failed * If you need support, post the topmost build error, and the call stack if relevant. * A complete build log is located at '/var/tmp/portage/dev-games/ogre- 0.15.1/temp/build.log'. *
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Daylight savings time
James [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Any other ideas? Maybe I need to 'reemerge' something? timezone-data? Cheers, Roger -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: The setup program seems to have failed.
On Thu, 8 Nov 2007 08:22:58 +0200 Rumen Yotov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The 'old' install method meant to use just no-X terminal from a LiveCD. Then you just follow the handbook (installation) and you're done. Could be done for half an hour/45 min/,but an hour or two will suffice for most users. Usually the kernel configcompilation takes most of the time. Check the install docs for 2005.X or the quickinstall guide IIRC. New users should set aside an afternoon, if they don't to much command-line work. An hour or two is a good install speed for me, and I've done it dozens of times. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Multiple Routes to the same Subnet
On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 16:40:26 -0800 kashani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hate to pull the expert card, but I was the network engineer/architect who built Netzero's original network so I've got some passing familiarity with this stuff. I'm glad you pulled this card; I want to learn about this stuff! FWIW, I'm not entirely new to routing either. Not that I have an 'expert card' to pull, but I've definitely routed together 6 networks or so over a VPN recently so i _think_ i understand the basics of routing, but being self taught is tricky like that. I really appreciate your input. I am glad that you _do_ in fact know your stuff, because i mean to learn ; ) My handy analogy for non network engineers is a subnet is the block you live on. You can reach any address on it without crossing the street. If you want to get to another block you need to use a crosswalk. Crosswalks require routing. Good analogy! Because I assumed you were switching the gateway and routes do not matter. So again, are your client AND server IPs on the same subnet or not? Yes. The real world numbers are: 192.168.1.0/24 - the subnet. 192.168.1.1 - davey, the internet gateway and local router (it does route in both our meanings, but it doesn't enter into our discussion) 192.168.1.100 - 'pascal', my workstation, a client w/ a local disk 192.168.1.86- 'slim', a good example client, as it's diskless and the media box, therefore accounts for a lot of the extra network traffic that i want to get of zeus's address (below) 192.168.1.87- 'zeus', eth0 on the server 192.168.1.88- 'nfs', bond0 (eth1-4) on the server So cough up a diagram of your network with IPs and masks to explain exactly what you're doing because what you've explained so far makes little sense to a former network professional. I will gladly continue to do so. Here are some real world numbers from the server. I have freshly rebooted it so that you can see the traffic I see. As the server just rebooted for the first time with the new network device bonding, I feel it's prudent to mention that the bond device came up first. zeus ~ # cat /etc/conf.d/net| grep -v '#'|grep [a-z] modules=(iproute2); config_eth0=( 192.168.1.87/24 brd 192.168.1.255); routes_eth0=( default via 192.168.1.1 ); config_eth1=( null ); config_eth2=( null ); config_eth3=( null ); config_eth4=( null ); RC_NEED_bond0=net.eth1 net.eth2 net.eth3 net.eth4 slaves_bond0=eth1 eth2 eth3 eth4 config_bond0=( 192.168.1.88/24 brd 192.168.1.255 ); routes_bond0=( default via 192.168.1.1 ); zeus ~ # ip route 192.168.1.0/24 dev bond0 proto kernel scope link src 192.168.1.88 192.168.1.0/24 dev eth0 proto kernel scope link src 192.168.1.87 127.0.0.0/8 dev lo scope link default via 192.168.1.1 dev bond0 default via 192.168.1.1 dev eth0 metric 1 == we can both agree from the following that eth0 isn't carrying much traffic. zeus ~ # ifconfig eth0 eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:40:CA:63:BF:00 inet addr:192.168.1.87 Bcast:192.168.1.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:92 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:2 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 RX bytes:15621 (15.2 Kb) TX bytes:84 (84.0 b) Interrupt:16 Base address:0x8000 But I've connected to this IP Address from my workstation, 'pascal' (ssh'd in). In fact, I have a few connections to .87 going: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ netstat -n | grep 87 tcp0 0 192.168.1.100:52499 192.168.1.87:993 ESTABLISHED tcp0 0 192.168.1.100:41837 192.168.1.87:19150 ESTABLISHED tcp0 0 192.168.1.100:4 192.168.1.87:514 ESTABLISHED tcp0 0 192.168.1.100:54247 192.168.1.87:22 ESTABLISHED == and yet, although the server's .87 interface is showing RX traffic, as to be expected, it still shows the same 84 bytes of TX traffic. (After a few minutes): RX bytes:22672 (22.1 Kb) TX bytes:84 (84.0 b) In comparison, here's the ifconfig output on bond0; clearly it's transmitting quite a bit. zeus ~ # ifconfig bond0 bond0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:00:92:A7:C0:B5 inet addr:192.168.1.88 Bcast:192.168.1.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 UP BROADCAST RUNNING MASTER MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:76131 errors:4 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:227978 errors:22 dropped:0 overruns:20 carrier:2 collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 RX bytes:31019984 (29.5 Mb) TX bytes:262332692 (250.1 Mb) And finally, if you still aren't
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: about the 2007.1
On Fri, 9 Nov 2007 01:18:35 + Neil Bothwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And the Gentoo manual install is not exactly difficult, it just needs a wilingness to read the docs. A prerequisite that is well deserved. The question is whether there's a place for another option. The present second option -- the liveCD install method -- fails to present gentoo accurately, and worse, it represents gentoo unfavorably. Furthermore, as some have already mentioned, there _is_ a problem with the idea of automating an os install from source: package emerges are simply too fickle to be trusted to install an entire system from all the way up to KDE/Gnome. I present only the one example; I believe We should redefine our live CD as an installation _media_ that can evolve independently of an installation system. We should then redefine our 'automatic installation' as an 'Official' stage 4 tarball (perhaps a few options would be in order) that can be unarchived to a target filesystem to produce a working system in literally minutes. If you think I am taking the installer is an idiot filter line you are very much mistaken. Gentoo has a purpose, and that purpose is different from the likes of Ubuntu or SUSE. That is not to detract from any of them, but trying to force one to be like another is doing a great disservice to both. If Gentoo is not different, serving a different type of user, what is the point of it? thinking now, I am surprised we don't already release official stage4s. It's a good fit with the handbook, portage, and the philosophy. On the other hand, perhaps the learning curve is a little too steep for some. They might have time to adapt to the altitude, at least, if there were an easier approach to the Linux mountain. Niel, you voice my feelings in the matter well. Do you think we should require users to perform a stage 3 install to run gentoo on their systems? Or might you agree that we might be able to find a replacement for the hideous graphical install that would actually be a _good_ thing for gentoo? Interested to hear yours, and others', thoughts, Dan Farrell. P.S. This conversation reminds me of the GWN's request for content. I don't know exactly how you'd make it a contribution, but it seems like a big area of discussion in the community. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: about the 2007.1
On Thu, 2007-11-08 at 21:03 -0600, Dan Farrell wrote: [snip] Sorry to jump in late in the thread, but have you come across sabayon? It seems to address some of your concerns... http://www.sabayonlinux.org/ http://wiki.sabayonlinux.org/index.php http://junauza.blogspot.com/2007/09/sabayon-gentle-gentoo.html these links might be interesting to you... cya, -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au The price of greatness is responsibility. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Daylight savings time
Albert Hopkins marduk at letterboxes.org writes: /etc/init.d/clock is run pretty early in the init process; before all filesystems in /etc/fstab are mounted. If /usr/share/zoneinfo is on a filesystem that is not mounted when /etc/init.d/clock is run then it will fail and ugly things will happen. Therefore it's suggested what instead of a symlink /etc/localtime should be a physical file on the (root) filesystem. OK, I I re-emerge 'timezone-data' and just wait until spring to see if there is a problem? James -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Daylight savings time
Vaeth vaeth at mathematik.uni-wuerzburg.de writes: Only if you run CLOCK=UTC the shift is guaranteed to work in any case (of course, unless another program like windows interferes). Well 'local' did not work, so I'm going to set it to UTC and see what happens in the spring. James -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Daylight savings time
I suggest you install ntpd, which will sync time with ntp server. And I dont think set CLOCK=UTC is a good idea. If you are using WINXP, it will change your clock to local always. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: about the 2007.1
Neil Bothwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 8 Nov 2007 13:05:18 +, Guanqun Lu wrote: We can't expect that all the Gentoo users should be a linux geek first, and then have a try on Gentoo linux sytem. Why not? Gentoo is aimed at more experienced users, Linux novices are already amply catered for by other distros. I would never recommend Gentoo to a new Linux user, in the same way that I wouldn't recommend a Ferrari to a learner driver. I was a Linux newbie when I installed Gentoo; it was the first distro I installed. It was recommended to me by a friend who said if I wanted to learn a lot as I installed it and set it up, Gentoo was a good idea. I now recommend it to newbies on the same basis. But it's only useful to them in this way /without/ the graphical installer. Anyway, you need to use other distros first to truly appreciate Gentoo :) Ain't that the truth. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is gentoo-wiki.com down?
Am Thu, 8 Nov 2007 19:22:14 +0100 schrieb Herbert Laubner [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, I am trying to get on gentoo-wiki.com. Without luck. Other pages aer working fine, so I do not think, it is a problem of my settings. Regards, Herb The page I have open eventually finishes loading, but it takes forever (more than 20 minutes). What does time out for me is searching via the search browser plugin. I tried this in Firefox -- Marc Joliet -- People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we don't - Bjarne Stroustrup signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: about the 2007.1
James [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Gentoo needs an easy to use, graphical installation CD, period. What I would do is lower(simplify) the goals of what that installation CD accomplishes. Once you get a drive prepared, kernel installed and the basic tools installed (binary or compiled). At that point, it's fairly straightforward to turn the box into a server, firewall, or workstation. That is as long as the hardware has graphical capabilities. A text (curses) based installer would also allow installation on systems with serial consoles (like traditional *nix system). A well designed curses application is just as easy to use (though does not offer the eye candy) as a graphical WIMP based one, and it takes less room on the install media, does not need the complexity of auto-detecting the graphics hardware, monitor capabilities etc. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
