Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Alan McKinnon]

On 02/02/2018 09:47, Frank Steinmetzger wrote:

On Fri, Feb 02, 2018 at 09:34:06AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:


PS.: As a non-native, I always found e.g. and i.e. easy to keep apart
because when you say "e.g." as a word without the dots, it becomes "eg",
which, phonetically, is the start of the word "example".



As a native English speaker I can never remember the precedence rules
about its and it's...


That is quite easy: the ’ *always* means something has been left out. "It’s"
it its unrolled form means It is. Once you start reading it aloud as such,
you will quickly get the hang of it. Try it, it is such fun.


I did say I can't remember the rules, not that I don't understand them :-)

I do remember there, their and they're though, that one gives many folks 
trouble. Of late I've decided that human languages are fuzzy, redundant 
and meaning can usually be determined from context. Not 100%, but 
usually close.


And now I don't care any more. Except "revert". That one still grates 
me; it is not "reply"





I vote we dump English in it's entirety and all switch to Python


How do you pronounce indentation?


Like so: "tab tab space"



--
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Frank Steinmetzger]

On Fri, Feb 02, 2018 at 09:34:06AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> > PS.: As a non-native, I always found e.g. and i.e. easy to keep apart
> > because when you say "e.g." as a word without the dots, it becomes "eg",
> > which, phonetically, is the start of the word "example".
> > 
> 
> As a native English speaker I can never remember the precedence rules 
> about its and it's...

That is quite easy: the ’ *always* means something has been left out. "It’s"
it its unrolled form means It is. Once you start reading it aloud as such,
you will quickly get the hang of it. Try it, it is such fun.

> I vote we dump English in it's entirety and all switch to Python

How do you pronounce indentation?

-- 
Gruß | Greetings | Qapla’
Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network.

LOL, you said ROFL.


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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Alan McKinnon]

On 02/02/2018 00:52, Frank Steinmetzger wrote:

On Thu, Feb 01, 2018 at 06:55:30PM +, Neil Bothwick wrote:

On Thu, 1 Feb 2018 13:12:07 -0500, Rich Freeman wrote:


Well, as long as we're explaining grammar, I'll elaborate a tiny bit
more since a lot of people (including native English speakers) get
these wrong.

[snip]

I figured that would make
the example more confusion which would defeat the purpose.

~
   
MUPHRY'S LAW: The principle that any criticism of the writing of others

will itself contain at least one grammatical error.

And don't get me started on people using "which" when they should be using
"that".

(In this case, which is correct but it should have a preceding comma).



When your reading this sentance, you fill find their are definately some
errors in it’s spelling. That is a art less and less people can make proper
use of.

*SCNR*


PS.: As a non-native, I always found e.g. and i.e. easy to keep apart
because when you say "e.g." as a word without the dots, it becomes "eg",
which, phonetically, is the start of the word "example".



As a native English speaker I can never remember the precedence rules 
about its and it's...


I vote we dump English in it's entirety and all switch to Python



--
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Floyd Anderson]

On Thu, 01 Feb 2018 23:48:19 -0500
allan gottlieb  wrote:


"The ice cream that is in the fridge is cold"
restricts the assertion of coldness to the ice cream in the fridge as
opposed to some other ice cream.


…and that completes the circle ;-)

"The ice cream id est in the fridge is cold"
"The ice cream i.e. in the fridge is cold"


--
Regards,
floyd

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: kernel choices for booting gentoo as guest in vbox vm

[J García]

2018-02-01 7:57 GMT-06:00 Harry Putnam :


> I did get a screenshot but it is very limited showing only a couple
> dozen lines of the boot messages. (attached at the end.)
>
The kernel is not able to mount root.
What filesystem did you use? If you used something that is not
included by default like ext4, you may be missing the drivers, or you
may have them as loadable modules, when you need them to boot.
Try to set a label for the root partition if you haven't, reboot,
change grub to edit the boot commands, change the root argument for
the linux command line to root=LABEL=yourlabel and continue.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[allan gottlieb]

On Fri, Feb 02 2018, Peter Humphrey wrote:

> I agree. You haven't consulted Fowler though, I see. (Drat! Where's my copy 
> when I need it?) He says the difference is whether we have a defining 
> clause. If what follows actually defines the subject of the sentence, use 
> "that". Otherwise it's "which".

The terminology I was taught is that

  "which" introduces a nonrestrictive clause set off in commas

  "that" introduces a restrictive clause.

"The ice cream that is in the fridge is cold"
restricts the assertion of coldness to the ice cream in the fridge as
opposed to some other ice cream.

"The ice cream, which is in the fridge, is cold"
asserts two points.
  The ice cream is cold.
  The ice cream is in the fridge.

allan

[gentoo-user] Re: kernel choices for booting gentoo as guest in vbox vm

[Harry Putnam]

Alexander Kapshuk  writes:

[...]

>> Can anyone tell me what they used to allow gentoo in vbox to boot?
>>
>>
>>
> Did you enable the recommended kernel config options as suggested here [1]?
> [1] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/VirtualBox

I did go thru that page and `think' I checked them off but I came to
that URL kind of late in the game... It would have no doubt went
better if I'd caught that earlier on.

It does appear to share some confusion with a couple of other pages.
I don't have them to hand but one said flatly not to use `any' of the
first bunch of framebuffer settings (1st and 2nd is based on how they
are arranged in `menuconfig') and to only use the second set (a few
lines below).

They were saying that the kernel frame buffering will absolutely
not work if one employs any of the settings from the first bunch.

[gentoo-user] Re: kernel choices for booting gentoo as guest in vbox vm

[Harry Putnam]

David Haller  writes:

[...]

>>I've never used genkernel, but from what I understand it builds
>>everything + the kitchen sink.. so should get the right drivers
>>hopefully. 
>
> Actually no, you can quite easily configure it to just the tedious
> work.

First, thanks for the cogent and helpful post.

Now about the statements above.

Its hard to tell what you mean there. I said I figured since genkernel
builds so much stuff, its a good chance I will have the stuff I need
to get booted.

You start by saying `Actually no,' so do you mean there is a pretty good
chance I will NOT get the drivers I need? If so, then I may be wasting
my time with genkernel.

Or were you just saying that if you configure genkernel correctly you
can keep it from creating so much unneded junk?


> Currently I use this:
>
> 1. install new kernel sources (in my case vanilla-sources)
> 2. copy over old config from last source tree, /boot/, /proc/config.gz
>whatever
> 3. run 'make oldconfig'
> 4. optionally note down some new options and then checkup on them using
>'make menuconfig' and searching for the noted options
>it's this step I want to be able to do why I configured genkernel as
>I did (see below)
> 5. run 'genkernel --kerneldir=. all', but note config below!
> 6. check /boot/ and /boot/grub*/ if all went right
> 7. recompile neccessary out-of-tree drivers like e.g.
>x11-drivers/nvidia
> 8. done
>
> If I just reconfigure, I start at step 4, change the localversion too
> in menuconfig. If something breaks, I run 'make clean', save config
> and run 'make mrproper' restore config, etc.

That is a nice walk thru... I can't say I understand all of it, and
currently I have a genkernel compile running... (It seems to take a
really long time to complete) So probably it'll be tomorrow.

Nice to see.  Lots of it is default.

I think I would like to have a look at /usr/src/linux/.confg if that
is not getting too snoopy.  I realize it will not be the same as mine
but what is 

>  delcomments /etc/genkernel.conf [1]
> OLDCONFIG="no"
> MENUCONFIG="no"

[...]

> Of course you must adapt the options for your needs, esp. those for
> the initrd if you boot from e.g. a md-device and some such.
>
> I don't actually use the generated initrd, but having them in /boot
> with less that 3MB in my case is ok and might come in handy when
> something fails.

I have'nt used an initrd for at least 15 yrs.  So all pretty much like
new stuff.

> For me, this has worked nicely the last years. Esp. generating the
> grub1 entries and handling the symlinks to the current and last
> kernel, initrd and System.map works flawlessly[2].

OK, that sounds comforting, and promising

[...]


> [2] ok, if you manually prune versions from the middle, you'll need to
> set the .old symlinks back to an older version (or the current?),
> haven't checked that yet, but setting it to the previous remaining
> version works nicely.
>
> I still haven't checked too, if you could have this setup:

No, not like that... In this case there has been no OS before.  This a
fresh install after a hiatus from gentoo of about a year.  I did run
gentoo for 4-5 yrs awhile back..

I've been running primarily openindiana (x86 solaris-11* ish, powered
by illumos) I like that zfs file system.  But also have kept my home
mail setup on Debian.  I've tinkered fairly extensively with `lubuntu'
(Notice the `el'(l) in front... supposed to indicate a lightish version of
ububtu) It defaults to the lxde desktop which I like a lot too.

>
> title=Gentoo current kernel
>   root (hd0,1)
>   kernel /boot/kernel OPTIONS...
>   [initrd /boot/initramfs]


I also see you are using legacy grub. I moved to grub2 some 5-6 mnths
ago. But not on Openindiana


> and that new versioned entries would be put at the "HERE" or at the top.
>
> I marked the 'initrd' stuff as optional with the [], as I don't use
> an initrd.

I'm not really sure how blend your approach into grub2 but I could
drop back to legacy grub 

> And maybe some other boot options (e.g. for another distro or Winders)
> sprinkled in at some location.
>
> Anyway, generally genkernel is a great help and occasionally
> pruning/reordering entries in the grub1 /boot/grub/menu.lst is easy,
> just delete/move stuff around with $EDITOR :)
>
> I never understood why grub2 chucked out the major advantage grub1 had
> over lilo: not needing to re-install the boot-sector / stage1 of the
> bootloader after every change to the config... Beats me still today.
> Which is why I continue to use grub1, which can do all I need (and
> more) just nicely. Thank you very much.

Some of the debian based OSs' out there do not make that too
easy... (staying with grub1) But it seems easily done in gentoo.

Thanks again for the helpful post.

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Grant Taylor]

On 02/01/2018 11:55 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
MUPHRY'S LAW: The principle that any criticism of the writing of others 
will itself contain at least one grammatical error.


And don't get me started on people using "which" when they should be using 
"that".


(In this case, which is correct but it should have a preceding comma).


Please defend / expound upon your statement.  -  Because I'd like to learn.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die



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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Rich Freeman]

On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 8:31 PM, Neil Bothwick  wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Feb 2018 00:41:29 +, Peter Humphrey wrote:
>
> Good for him. 10/10 means "well done, but you're never going to get any
> better". A depressing concept :(
>

More like, "well done, and you will get better, but 99% of the people
you meet and 85% of the managers you work for won't be able to tell
the difference."

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Neil Bothwick]

On Fri, 02 Feb 2018 00:41:29 +, Peter Humphrey wrote:

> 9/10 for effort, though, as my Dad might have said.  :)
> 
> (He was a teacher, and he never gave 10/10 for anything because, he
> said, surely there must always be some room for improvement. You see
> what we children had to cope with...)

Good for him. 10/10 means "well done, but you're never going to get any
better". A depressing concept :(


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Shotgun wedding: A case of wife or death.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Neil Bothwick]

On Fri, 02 Feb 2018 00:36:00 +, Peter Humphrey wrote:

> > The rule of thumb I was taught is that if you can dispense with the
> > second part without significantly changing the meaning, use which,
> > otherwise use that.  
> 
> I agree. You haven't consulted Fowler though, I see. (Drat! Where's my
> copy when I need it?) He says the difference is whether we have a
> defining clause. If what follows actually defines the subject of the
> sentence, use "that". Otherwise it's "which".

That's the definition I learned, thank for reminding me of it's name.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

I used to have a handle on life, then it broke.


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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Peter Humphrey]

On Friday, 2 February 2018 00:25:43 GMT R0b0t1 wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 11:03 AM, Peter Humphrey  
wrote:
> > [Far off topic]
> 
> Allow me to play doubles advocate here for a moment. For all intensive
> purposes

Very funny, but I'm sorry to say I stopped reading at this point.  :)

> I think you are wrong. In an age where false morals are a
> diamond dozen, true virtues are a blessing in the skies. We often put
> our false morality on a petal stool like a bunch of pre-Madonnas, but
> you all seem to be taking something very valuable for granite. So I
> ask of you to mustard up all the strength you can because it is a
> doggy dog world out there. Although there is some merit to what you
> are saying it seems like you have a huge ship on your shoulder. In
> your argument you seem to throw everything in but the kids Nsync, and
> even though you are having a feel day with this I am here to bring you
> back into reality. I have a sick sense when it comes to these types of
> things. It is almost spooky, because I cannot turn a blonde eye to
> these glaring flaws in your rhetoric. I have zero taller ants when it
> comes to people spouting out hate in the name of moral righteousness.
> You just need to remember what comes around is all around, and when
> supply and command fails you will be the first to go.
> 
> Make my words, when you get down to brass stacks it doesn't take
> rocket appliances to get two birds stoned at once. It's clear who
> makes the pants in this relationship, and sometimes you just have to
> swallow your prize and accept the facts. You might have to come to
> this conclusion through denial and error but I swear on my mother's
> mating name that when you put the petal to the medal you will pass
> with flying carpets like it’s a peach of cake.

9/10 for effort, though, as my Dad might have said.  :)

(He was a teacher, and he never gave 10/10 for anything because, he said, 
surely there must always be some room for improvement. You see what we 
children had to cope with...)

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Peter Humphrey]

On Friday, 2 February 2018 00:04:07 GMT Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Feb 2018 23:39:13 +, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > > > The Romans were very practical people who didn't waste time or
> > > > effort, but got on with the job & built an empire which lasted  500
> > > > years .
> > > 
> > > built an empire THAT lasted  500 years
> > 
> > Nope. Philip was right the first time. They built an empire, and it
> > lasted 500 years. Your version implies that they built an empire that
> > lasted 500 years, as distinct from one that didn't.
> 
> In that case the which should be preceded by a comma,

The comma has become optional with developing usage. Otherwise, we agree.

> ... as that part of the sentence is optional, only adding extra detail.
> However, here the fact that the empire lasted 500 years is the point and
> should be included in the main statement with that.

That's a matter of opinion. If true, it should be handled by recasting the 
sentence so as not to rely on such a fine distinction, which would most 
likely be missed.

> The rule of thumb I was taught is that if you can dispense with the
> second part without significantly changing the meaning, use which,
> otherwise use that.

I agree. You haven't consulted Fowler though, I see. (Drat! Where's my copy 
when I need it?) He says the difference is whether we have a defining 
clause. If what follows actually defines the subject of the sentence, use 
"that". Otherwise it's "which".

I spent many hours editing programmers' documents in the '80s and '90s (in 
my spare time between assembler and Fortran programs), and this was a major 
sticking point. As I said to one of those young men, "which" in this context 
could often be understood as "and it". I stand by that still.

> Since the 500 years is crucial, the latter applies.

As I said, the construction is poor.

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[R0b0t1]

On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 11:03 AM, Peter Humphrey  wrote:
> [Far off topic]

Allow me to play doubles advocate here for a moment. For all intensive
purposes I think you are wrong. In an age where false morals are a
diamond dozen, true virtues are a blessing in the skies. We often put
our false morality on a petal stool like a bunch of pre-Madonnas, but
you all seem to be taking something very valuable for granite. So I
ask of you to mustard up all the strength you can because it is a
doggy dog world out there. Although there is some merit to what you
are saying it seems like you have a huge ship on your shoulder. In
your argument you seem to throw everything in but the kids Nsync, and
even though you are having a feel day with this I am here to bring you
back into reality. I have a sick sense when it comes to these types of
things. It is almost spooky, because I cannot turn a blonde eye to
these glaring flaws in your rhetoric. I have zero taller ants when it
comes to people spouting out hate in the name of moral righteousness.
You just need to remember what comes around is all around, and when
supply and command fails you will be the first to go.

Make my words, when you get down to brass stacks it doesn't take
rocket appliances to get two birds stoned at once. It's clear who
makes the pants in this relationship, and sometimes you just have to
swallow your prize and accept the facts. You might have to come to
this conclusion through denial and error but I swear on my mother's
mating name that when you put the petal to the medal you will pass
with flying carpets like it’s a peach of cake.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Jack]

On 2018.02.01 18:34, Grant Edwards wrote:

On 2018-02-01, Jack  wrote:
> On 2018.02.01 17:52, Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
> [snip...]
>> PS.: As a non-native, I always found e.g. and i.e. easy to keep  
apart

>> because when you say "e.g." as a word without the dots, it becomes
>> "eg", which, phonetically, is the start of the word "example".
>
> A non-native speaker of English, or a non-native speaker of Latin?

Are there any native speakers of Latin?


Not any more, that I know of, but I believe it some residents of  
Vatican City might come close, or at least be extremely fluent.


Jack

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Neil Bothwick]

On Thu, 1 Feb 2018 23:34:11 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:

> > A non-native speaker of English, or a non-native speaker of Latin?  

The two are not mutually exclusive.
 
> Are there any native speakers of Latin?

There appear to be plenty in Oxford, and the UK government.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

WinErr 003: Dynamic linking error - Your mistake is now in every file


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Neil Bothwick]

On Thu, 01 Feb 2018 23:39:13 +, Peter Humphrey wrote:

> > > The Romans were very practical people who didn't waste time or
> > > effort, but got on with the job & built an empire which lasted  500
> > > years .  
> > 
> > built an empire THAT lasted  500 years  
> 
> Nope. Philip was right the first time. They built an empire, and it
> lasted 500 years. Your version implies that they built an empire that
> lasted 500 years, as distinct from one that didn't.

In that case the which should be preceded by a comma, as that part of the
sentence is optional, only adding extra detail. However, here the fact
that the empire lasted 500 years is the point and should be included in
the main statement with that.

The rule of thumb I was taught is that if you can dispense with the
second part without significantly changing the meaning, use which,
otherwise use that. Since the 500 years is crucial, the latter applies.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to
skydive twice.


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Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Peter Humphrey]

On Thursday, 1 February 2018 18:12:07 GMT Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 12:03 PM, Peter Humphrey  
wrote:
> > I've been seeing some confusion recently about the abbreviations e.g.
> > and
> > i.e. Their meanings are:
> > 
> > E.g.Exempli gratia  - Latin for "for the sake of example";
> > I.e.Id est  - Latin for "that is".
> 
> Well, as long as we're explaining grammar, I'll elaborate a tiny bit
> more since a lot of people (including native English speakers) get
> these wrong.
> 
> e.g is used when giving one example when many could have used.

Could have used ... what?

You're just repeating the definition of "example".

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Peter Humphrey]

On Thursday, 1 February 2018 22:52:14 GMT Frank Steinmetzger wrote:

> PS.: As a non-native, I always found e.g. and i.e. easy to keep apart
> because when you say "e.g." as a word without the dots, it becomes "eg",
> which, phonetically, is the start of the word "example".


Aargh! No, no, no. There are no gs in an x. Say after me: "ecs-ample".

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Frank Steinmetzger]

On Thu, Feb 01, 2018 at 06:05:35PM -0500, Jack wrote:
> On 2018.02.01 17:52, Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
> [snip...]
> > PS.: As a non-native, I always found e.g. and i.e. easy to keep apart
> > because when you say "e.g." as a word without the dots, it becomes
> > "eg", which, phonetically, is the start of the word "example".
>
> A non-native speaker of English, or a non-native speaker of Latin?

The only Latin I know properly is «Romani ite domum».

-- 
Gruß | Greetings | Qapla’
Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network.

Finally!  No more financial worries! Broke.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Peter Humphrey]

On Thursday, 1 February 2018 22:24:11 GMT Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Feb 2018 16:17:10 -0500, Philip Webb wrote:
> > The Romans were very practical people who didn't waste time or effort,
> > but got on with the job & built an empire which lasted  500 years .
> 
> built an empire THAT lasted  500 years

Nope. Philip was right the first time. They built an empire, and it lasted 
500 years. Your version implies that they built an empire that lasted 500 
years, as distinct from one that didn't.

Consult Fowler on "that and which". Preferably not the most recent version.

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Peter Humphrey]

On Thursday, 1 February 2018 18:47:57 GMT Philip Webb wrote:
> 180201 Grant Edwards wrote:
> > You also use e.g. when giving multiple examples.  To quote Grammar Girl.
> > 
> >   "I like card games, e.g. bridge and crazy eights.
> >   "Some people in life suffer misfortunes, e.g. fire, flood,
> >   
> >earthquake or a meteor strike."
> 
> And while we're at it (grin), 'e.g.' has the same force as 'etc',
> so it's duplicating effort to write 'e.g. fire, flood etc'.

No, it doesn't. I think what you mean is that it doesn't make sense to say 
"for example, ... , all the rest." In other words, you can't sensibly say 
all the rest are an example. I agree with that.

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

[gentoo-user] Re: [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Grant Edwards]

On 2018-02-01, Jack  wrote:
> On 2018.02.01 17:52, Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
> [snip...]
>> PS.: As a non-native, I always found e.g. and i.e. easy to keep apart  
>> because when you say "e.g." as a word without the dots, it becomes  
>> "eg", which, phonetically, is the start of the word "example".
>
> A non-native speaker of English, or a non-native speaker of Latin?

Are there any native speakers of Latin?

-- 
Grant Edwards   grant.b.edwardsYow! Is it 1974?  What's
  at   for SUPPER?  Can I spend
  gmail.commy COLLEGE FUND in one
   wild afternoon??

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Jack]

On 2018.02.01 17:52, Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
[snip...]
PS.: As a non-native, I always found e.g. and i.e. easy to keep apart  
because when you say "e.g." as a word without the dots, it becomes  
"eg", which, phonetically, is the start of the word "example".


A non-native speaker of English, or a non-native speaker of Latin?

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A little help for non-native English speakers

[Neil Bothwick]

On Thu, 1 Feb 2018 14:45:15 -0800, Ian Zimmerman wrote:

> > > I figured that would make the example more confusion which would
> > > defeat the purpose.  
> 
> > And don't get me started on people using "which" when they should be
> > using "that".
> > 
> > (In this case, which is correct but it should have a preceding
> > comma).  
> 
> One could also use "that" with a preceding semicolon.

One could, although it would subtly change the message, adding more
emphasis to the second clause.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

In a classified ad: "Tired of cleaning yourself? Let me do it."


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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Frank Steinmetzger]

On Thu, Feb 01, 2018 at 06:55:30PM +, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Feb 2018 13:12:07 -0500, Rich Freeman wrote:
> 
> > Well, as long as we're explaining grammar, I'll elaborate a tiny bit
> > more since a lot of people (including native English speakers) get
> > these wrong.
> [snip]
> > I figured that would make
> > the example more confusion which would defeat the purpose.
>~
>   
> MUPHRY'S LAW: The principle that any criticism of the writing of others
> will itself contain at least one grammatical error.
> 
> And don't get me started on people using "which" when they should be using
> "that".
> 
> (In this case, which is correct but it should have a preceding comma).


When your reading this sentance, you fill find their are definately some
errors in it’s spelling. That is a art less and less people can make proper
use of.

*SCNR*


PS.: As a non-native, I always found e.g. and i.e. easy to keep apart
because when you say "e.g." as a word without the dots, it becomes "eg",
which, phonetically, is the start of the word "example".

-- 
Gruß | Greetings | Qapla’
Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network.

The higher the qualification, the higher-grade the mistakes.


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Description: Digital signature

[gentoo-user] Re: A little help for non-native English speakers

[Ian Zimmerman]

On 2018-02-01 18:55, Neil Bothwick wrote:

> > I figured that would make the example more confusion which would
> > defeat the purpose.

> And don't get me started on people using "which" when they should be using
> "that".
> 
> (In this case, which is correct but it should have a preceding comma).

One could also use "that" with a preceding semicolon.

-- 
Please don't Cc: me privately on mailing lists and Usenet,
if you also post the followup to the list or newsgroup.
To reply privately _only_ on Usenet, fetch the TXT record for the domain.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Neil Bothwick]

On Thu, 1 Feb 2018 16:17:10 -0500, Philip Webb wrote:

> The Romans were very practical people who didn't waste time or effort,
> but got on with the job & built an empire which lasted  500 years .

built an empire THAT lasted  500 years


-- 
Neil Bothwick

This virus requires Microsoft Windows XP


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Philip Webb]

180201 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Feb 2018 13:47:57 -0500, Philip Webb wrote:
>> And while we're at it (grin), 'e.g.' has the same force as 'etc',
>> so it's duplicating effort to write 'e.g. fire, flood etc'.
> 'etc' is from the Latin 'et cetera',
> meaning "I couldn't be bothered thinking of any more".

Roughly (smile) : as a Classicist by training,
I would translate 'and all the rest (of them)'.

The Romans were very practical people who didn't waste time or effort,
but got on with the job & built an empire which lasted  500 years .

-- 
,,
SUPPORT ___//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT`-O--O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Rich Freeman]

On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 2:09 PM, Grant Taylor  wrote:
>
> IMHO that makes the name of the "/etc" directory all that much more
> entertaining.  As in Dennis R. and Ken T. couldn't be bothered to come up
> with more directory names than they had, e.g. /bin /lib /boot /var … (I
> can't be bothered to think of or look for more.)
>

Along those lines the original reason for the / vs /usr split was that
the original developers were accommodating a machine that had two hard
drives and needed to split things up.

There may very well be good reasons to preserve the distinction today,
but those aren't actually historical.  And of course there are two
modern approaches:

1.  The more traditional FHS approach of / for boot-essential and /usr
mounted later during bootstrapping.

2.  The Fedora /usr merge approach of sticking all read-only
distro-supplied files in /usr with the goal that they be contained and
read-only (think squashfs/signatures/etc), with bootstrapping covered
by the initramfs.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Grant Taylor]

On 02/01/2018 11:50 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
etc is from the Latin et cetera, meaning "I couldn't be bothered thinking 
of any more".


~chuckle~

IMHO that makes the name of the "/etc" directory all that much more 
entertaining.  As in Dennis R. and Ken T. couldn't be bothered to come 
up with more directory names than they had, e.g. /bin /lib /boot /var … 
(I can't be bothered to think of or look for more.)


Yes, the puns are intended.  }:-)

P.S.  I find this thread interesting and timely as I had been thinking 
about researching the etymology and use of "i.e.".




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Neil Bothwick]

On Thu, 1 Feb 2018 13:12:07 -0500, Rich Freeman wrote:

> Well, as long as we're explaining grammar, I'll elaborate a tiny bit
> more since a lot of people (including native English speakers) get
> these wrong.
[snip]
> I figured that would make
> the example more confusion which would defeat the purpose.
   ~
  
MUPHRY'S LAW: The principle that any criticism of the writing of others
will itself contain at least one grammatical error.

And don't get me started on people using "which" when they should be using
"that".

(In this case, which is correct but it should have a preceding comma).


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Some cause happiness wherever they go. Others whenever they go.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Neil Bothwick]

On Thu, 1 Feb 2018 13:47:57 -0500, Philip Webb wrote:

> And while we're at it (grin), 'e.g.' has the same force as 'etc',
> so it's duplicating effort to write 'e.g. fire, flood etc'.

etc is from the Latin et cetera, meaning "I couldn't be bothered thinking
of any more".


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Justify my text? I'm sorry but it has no excuse.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Philip Webb]

180201 Grant Edwards wrote:
> You also use e.g. when giving multiple examples.  To quote Grammar Girl.
>   "I like card games, e.g. bridge and crazy eights.
>   "Some people in life suffer misfortunes, e.g. fire, flood,
>earthquake or a meteor strike."

And while we're at it (grin), 'e.g.' has the same force as 'etc',
so it's duplicating effort to write 'e.g. fire, flood etc'.

-- 
,,
SUPPORT ___//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT`-O--O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

[gentoo-user] Re: [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Grant Edwards]

On 2018-02-01, Rich Freeman  wrote:

> Well, as long as we're explaining grammar, I'll elaborate a tiny bit
> more since a lot of people (including native English speakers) get
> these wrong.
>
> e.g is used when giving one example when many could have used.

You also use e.g. when giving multiple examples.  To quote Grammar Girl.

  "I like card games, e.g. bridge and crazy eights.

> An example: "Some people in life suffer misfortunes, e.g. having a
> meteor land on their house."  This is just one example of a
> misfortune somebody could suffer, and there are many other unstated
> misfortunes.

  "Some people in life suffer misfortunes, e.g. fire, flood,
   earthquake or a meteor strike."

-- 
Grant Edwards   grant.b.edwardsYow! I'm young ... I'm
  at   HEALTHY ... I can HIKE
  gmail.comTHRU CAPT GROGAN'S LUMBAR
   REGIONS!

Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Rich Freeman]

On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 12:03 PM, Peter Humphrey  wrote:
>
> I've been seeing some confusion recently about the abbreviations e.g. and
> i.e. Their meanings are:
>
> E.g.Exempli gratia  - Latin for "for the sake of example";
> I.e.Id est  - Latin for "that is".
>

Well, as long as we're explaining grammar, I'll elaborate a tiny bit
more since a lot of people (including native English speakers) get
these wrong.

e.g is used when giving one example when many could have used.  An
example:  "Some people in life suffer misfortunes, e.g. having a
meteor land on their house."  This is just one example of a misfortune
somebody could suffer, and there are many other unstated misfortunes.
Indeed, instead of saying "An example" in the previous sentence I
could have actually started it with, "e.g." I figured that would make
the example more confusion which would defeat the purpose.

i.e. is used when restating something in different words.  An example:
"Gentoo is a Linux distribution, i.e. a collection of software based
on the Linux kernel that is published as a single maintained work."
The second part of the sentence is a definition of "Linux
distribution" - the definition isn't just one of many examples - it is
a description of all Linux distributions.

-- 
Rich

[gentoo-user] [OT] A little help for non-native English speakers

[Peter Humphrey]

Hello list,

[Far off topic]

I've been seeing some confusion recently about the abbreviations e.g. and 
i.e. Their meanings are:

E.g.Exempli gratia  - Latin for "for the sake of example";
I.e.Id est  - Latin for "that is".

HTH. I'll ge back to sleep now.

[/Far off topic]

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: kernel choices for booting gentoo as guest in vbox vm

[David Haller]

Hello,

On Thu, 01 Feb 2018, Harry Putnam wrote:
>I did get a screenshot but it is very limited showing only a couple
>dozen lines of the boot messages. (attached at the end.)

Still helps: device 8,65 is /dev/sde1. Check on that ;) E.g. in the
fstab inside the initrd ... And keeping the initrd up-to-date is one
thing genkernel makes easy BTW ;)

Check your bootloader config! Check your initrd. Check your fstab (and
regenerate your initrd if changes concern the root- or resume-device).

>I've never used genkernel, but from what I understand it builds
>everything + the kitchen sink.. so should get the right drivers
>hopefully. 

Actually no, you can quite easily configure it to just the tedious
work.

Currently I use this:

1. install new kernel sources (in my case vanilla-sources)
2. copy over old config from last source tree, /boot/, /proc/config.gz
   whatever
3. run 'make oldconfig'
4. optionally note down some new options and then checkup on them using
   'make menuconfig' and searching for the noted options
   it's this step I want to be able to do why I configured genkernel as
   I did (see below)
5. run 'genkernel --kerneldir=. all', but note config below!
6. check /boot/ and /boot/grub*/ if all went right
7. recompile neccessary out-of-tree drivers like e.g.
   x11-drivers/nvidia
8. done

If I just reconfigure, I start at step 4, change the localversion too
in menuconfig. If something breaks, I run 'make clean', save config
and run 'make mrproper' restore config, etc.

 delcomments /etc/genkernel.conf [1]
OLDCONFIG="no"
MENUCONFIG="no"
CLEAN="no"
MRPROPER="no"
MOUNTBOOT="yes"
SYMLINK="yes"
SAVE_CONFIG="yes"
USECOLOR="yes"
LVM="no"
LUKS="no"
GPG="no"
DMRAID="no"
BUSYBOX="yes"
MDADM="no"
MULTIPATH="no"
ISCSI="no"
E2FSPROGS="yes"
ZFS="no"
BTRFS="no"
FIRMWARE="no"
FIRMWARE_DIR="/lib/firmware"
FIRMWARE_FILES=""
DISKLABEL="yes"
BOOTLOADER="grub"
SPLASH="no"
DOKEYMAPAUTO="no"
KEYMAP="0"
GK_SHARE="${GK_SHARE:-/usr/share/genkernel}"
CACHE_DIR="/var/cache/genkernel"
DISTDIR="${GK_SHARE}/distfiles"
LOGFILE="/var/log/genkernel.log"
LOGLEVEL=5
DEFAULT_KERNEL_SOURCE="/usr/src/linux"
BUSYBOX_APPLETS="[ ash sh mount uname echo cut cat mdev switch_root findfs 
umount unxz xz cpio fsck fdisk halt insmod less lzop makedevs modinfo modprobe 
reboot"
RAMDISKMODULES="0"
COMPRESS_INITRD="yes"
COMPRESS_INITRD_TYPE="gzip"
WRAP_INITRD=no


Of course you must adapt the options for your needs, esp. those for
the initrd if you boot from e.g. a md-device and some such.

I don't actually use the generated initrd, but having them in /boot
with less that 3MB in my case is ok and might come in handy when
something fails.

For me, this has worked nicely the last years. Esp. generating the
grub1 entries and handling the symlinks to the current and last
kernel, initrd and System.map works flawlessly[2].

HTH,
-dnh

[1] delcomments does just that, omit shell-style comments and empty
lines

#!/bin/sed -f
/^[[:space:]]*#/d
/^[[:space:]]*$/d


[2] ok, if you manually prune versions from the middle, you'll need to
set the .old symlinks back to an older version (or the current?),
haven't checked that yet, but setting it to the previous remaining
version works nicely.

I still haven't checked too, if you could have this setup:


[options omitted]

title=Gentoo current kernel
  root (hd0,1)
  kernel /boot/kernel OPTIONS...
  [initrd /boot/initramfs]

title=Gentoo old kernel
  root (hd0,1)
  kernel /boot/kernel.old OPTIONS...
  [initrd /boot/initramfs.old]

### <<=== HERE

title=Gentoo Linux (4.15.0-dnh1)
  root (hd0,1)
  kernel /boot/kernel-genkernel-x86_64-4.15.0-dnh1 OPTIONS...
  [initrd /boot/initramfs-genkernel-x86_64-4.15.0-dnh1]

title=Gentoo Linux (4.14.15-dnh1)
  root (hd0,1)
  kernel /boot/kernel-genkernel-x86_64-4.14.15-dnh1 OPTIONS...
  [initrd /boot/initramfs-genkernel-x86_64-4.14.15-dnh1]
...


and that new versioned entries would be put at the "HERE" or at the top.

I marked the 'initrd' stuff as optional with the [], as I don't use
an initrd.

And maybe some other boot options (e.g. for another distro or Winders)
sprinkled in at some location.

Anyway, generally genkernel is a great help and occasionally
pruning/reordering entries in the grub1 /boot/grub/menu.lst is easy,
just delete/move stuff around with $EDITOR :)

I never understood why grub2 chucked out the major advantage grub1 had
over lilo: not needing to re-install the boot-sector / stage1 of the
bootloader after every change to the config... Beats me still today.
Which is why I continue to use grub1, which can do all I need (and
more) just nicely. Thank you very much.

-- 
Too bloated to crash, it can only bounce gently into the limits set by
the laws of physics and stop, wobbling slightly.-- unknown

Re: [gentoo-user] kernel choices for booting gentoo as guest in vbox vm

[Alexander Kapshuk]

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 2:44 PM, Harry Putnam  wrote:
> Installing gentoo as guest into vbox vm on solaris-11 (openindiana)
> HOST
> gentoo-17
> VBox 5.2.6
> Kernel 4.15.0
>
> My first boot resulted in resulted in a kernel panic... not able to
> mount root.
>
> I checked my /etc/fstab trying to make sure I didn't make a stupid
> mistake there... it appear to be sound. (Included at the end of post)
>
> I suspect it may be the result of a kernel choice... or rather the
> lack of one.  Something that would have been able to mount /
>
> I thought it would be ata_piix and made sure that was selected in
> kernel .config
>
> I'm thinking it may be be ata_generic, which I did not have selected.
> Which I have now enabled.  But I see now, that is for IDE.
>
> In a chroot now I can see lspci -k shows ata_piix in use .. but that
> would probably be because in vbox I have the gentoo install media on
> IDE secondary master.  But also shows sata controller ahci
>
> Which I do also have selected in .config.  However there a number of
> AHCI choices in the kernel config that were not selected.
>
> Can anyone tell me what they used to allow gentoo in vbox to boot?
>
>
>
Did you enable the recommended kernel config options as suggested here [1]?
[1] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/VirtualBox

[gentoo-user] Re: kernel choices for booting gentoo as guest in vbox vm

[Harry Putnam]

80x24  writes:

> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 8:44 PM, Harry Putnam  wrote:
>> Installing gentoo as guest into vbox vm on solaris-11 (openindiana)
>> HOST
>> gentoo-17
>> VBox 5.2.6
>> Kernel 4.15.0
>>
>> My first boot resulted in resulted in a kernel panic... not able to
>> mount root.
>>
>
> Maybe taking a video record or screenshot and providing a extact log
> message would help.
>
>> In a chroot now I can see lspci -k shows ata_piix in use .. but that
>> would probably be because in vbox I have the gentoo install media on
>> IDE secondary master.  But also shows sata controller ahci
>
> In case device driver is fine, you would want to check the filesystem
> type. I've done something like using btrfs as rootfs but didn't mark
> btrfs as builtin module.
>
> Similar kernel panic.

OK, tried the video capture but the video file never shows up.
That is, I used settings on vbox manager panel to enable video
capture. Start the bootup and I can see the video camera icon in
bottom right of vm window spinning as it should.

But, when the `panic' shows up I click the camera Icon as the
directions say to do to end capture and retrieve the vid file.

At the point of `panic'.. clicking the camera has no effect and it
continues to spin.

Trying to guess when the panic is about to happen and clicking just
ahead of the event does not produce a video file, nor does it stop the
camera spinning.

I did get a screenshot but it is very limited showing only a couple
dozen lines of the boot messages. (attached at the end.)

The log produced by Vbox is useless and I could see nothing useful in
it.  It is some kind of codified account of the VBox actions and has
nothing to say about the OS in the vm.  I'm pretty sure the `panic'
has nothing to do with the VBox controller.

I'm at the point now, after at least 5 reconfigurings and rebuilds
of the kernel, to no avail, that I'm going to try the genkernel
approach.

I've never used genkernel, but from what I understand it builds
everything + the kitchen sink.. so should get the right drivers
hopefully. 

Re: [gentoo-user] rust 1.23.0 fails to install

[Adam Carter]

>
> > Maybe a resync for dev-lang/rust-1.23.0-r1::gentoo helps. But
> > before you emerge, be aware of bug #646092 [1] (where I also ran
> > into). For me [2] solves the described issue.
> >
> >
> > References:
> >  - [1] 
> >  - [2] 
>
> Well, it worked, with the 23.0-r1  release -- thanks much!
>

Since you've built rust you might be attempting to build firefox 58. If so,
it doesnt like distcc...

Re: [gentoo-user] rust 1.23.0 fails to install

[John Covici]

On Tue, 30 Jan 2018 04:27:18 -0500,
Floyd Anderson wrote:
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 16:58:56 -0500
> John Covici  wrote:
> > Hi.  In my world update Rust 1.23.0 failed to install with the
> > following error:
> > install: installing component 'rustc'
> > 
> >Rust is ready to roll.
> > 
> > < Rustc { stage: 2, target: "x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu", host:
> > "x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu" }
> > Build completed successfully in 0:21:12
> > mv: cannot stat
> > '/var/tmp/portage/dev-lang/rust-1.23.0/image//usr/share/doc/rust/*':
> > No such file or directory
> > 
> > I did not see a bug on bgo -- anyone knows how to fix?
> > 
> > Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
> > 
> 
> Maybe a resync for dev-lang/rust-1.23.0-r1::gentoo helps. But
> before you emerge, be aware of bug #646092 [1] (where I also ran
> into). For me [2] solves the described issue.
> 
> 
> References:
>  - [1] 
>  - [2] 

Well, it worked, with the 23.0-r1  release -- thanks much!

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

 John Covici wb2una
 cov...@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] kernel choices for booting gentoo as guest in vbox vm

[80x24]

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 8:44 PM, Harry Putnam  wrote:
> Installing gentoo as guest into vbox vm on solaris-11 (openindiana)
> HOST
> gentoo-17
> VBox 5.2.6
> Kernel 4.15.0
>
> My first boot resulted in resulted in a kernel panic... not able to
> mount root.
>

Maybe taking a video record or screenshot and providing a extact log
message would help.

> In a chroot now I can see lspci -k shows ata_piix in use .. but that
> would probably be because in vbox I have the gentoo install media on
> IDE secondary master.  But also shows sata controller ahci

In case device driver is fine, you would want to check the filesystem
type. I've done something like using btrfs as rootfs but didn't mark
btrfs as builtin module.

Similar kernel panic.


-- 
Silence is golden.