Re: [gentoo-user] new machine : probable parts for comment
Am Fri, May 13, 2022 at 04:39:51AM -0400 schrieb Philip Webb: > Thanks for the detailed advice, esp Frank + Dale + also Wols + Perkins. > These are my proposed parts for ANB6, wh I will buy from Canada Computers ; > prices are in CAD, of course ; a few further comments from me below : > > CPU : AMD : CPAMD00131 : Ryzen 7 : 5700G : 8-core 16-thread : $ 388 > Socket AM4 : 3,8 / 4,6 GHz : Radeon Graphix Wreath Stealth > > Mobo : MBGIG00145 : Gigabyte : X570 Aorus elite WIFI : $ 220 > dual PCIe 4.0 M.2 : Intel dual-band 802.11ac wireless > front USB Type C : RGB Fusion 2.0 > > Memory : MEKIT00523 : Kingston Fury Beast : 2 x 16 GB : DDR4 3200 MHz : $ 160 > > SSD : SSKIT00120 : Kingston KC3000 : 1 TB : PCIe Gen4 : NVMe M.2 >R 7000 MB/s ; W 6000 MB/s : $ 190 > > HDD : HDSEA00016 : Seagate IronWolf : 4 TB : CMR : >SATA 6 Gb/s : 5900 RPM : 64 MB Cache : 3 Yr Warranty : $ 110 Interesting RPM. I only knew of 5400 and 7200. > Case : CSDCL00015 : Deepcool D-Shield V2 ATX : Compact Mid Tower Case : $ 60 >CSDCL00019 : Deepcool E-Shield : Mid Tower Chassis, > Black, Tempered Glass, 120mm Fan, Radiator Support, > E-ATX/ATX/MicroATX/MiniITX : $ 60 > > Power : PSTHL7 : Thermaltake Smart White : 700 W > 80 PLUS Certified Power Supply : $ 80 [[ total $ 1268 ]] 80 PLUS what? Bronze? Silver? Gold? > Comments : the machine is intended to last 7 years , > so I'm going for more power + speed than I'm likely to use today ; > of course, I don't want to waste CAD, but will pay more for better value ; > I don't do gaming, but I do need a powerful machine for Gentoo compiling. I can’t remember which of the following details I already told in the last thread, but it’s not much anyways: The 5700G sadly only supports PCIe 3.0 due to its laptop nature (remember, it’s a mobile chip in a desktop package). So unless you really plan on upgrading the CPU later, there is no need (and basically no use) for a PCIe 4.0 boad and components, which eat more $$$ and ⌁⌁⌁. But the AM4 platform has already reached its end, there will probably be no more processor models than what is available now. So your only choice of upgrades for more performance is one of the X processors, such as the 5700X or 5800X3D. The next-gen processors need the new AM5 socket. This puts me in a difficult spot as well. If I go the 5700G route, too, and should I ever decide to buy a dedicated GPU later (and I know that it won’t be high-end due to price and watts), then the problem will be that lower-tier GPUs these days are PCIe 4.0×8 instead of the old 3.0×16. Meaning: because the 5700G only supports PICe 3, the GPU is constrained to 3.0×8 and in effect loses half of its possible bandwith. (However, I’m not sure whether that’s actually a problem or if 3.0×8 actually still has enough bandwidth for what those GPUs can do.) The same issue applies to the M.2 slot. If you know you will keep this CPU for veeery long, and you want to save some $$$, a 3.0×4 SSD is the logical choice over a 4.0×4. I just bought a 2 TB M.2 which has 3.0×4, but my board only supports a meagre 2.0×2, which is a quarter of 3.0×4 (it’s probably the first generation of boards that actually had a native NVMe slot). But I know I will upgrade sooner or later, and so I went for a 3.0 SSD. Re. chipset: Usually, the X chipset distincts (is that a word?) itself from the B series with features for overclockers. It also draws more power and—consequently— requires active cooling (the mainboards have their own fan!). But just the other day I read that there are also passive X boards now. I’m not sure about your model and can’t look right now, as I’m sitting on the train with a small laptop and forgot my power brick for the whole weekend. :D > Mobo : Canada Computers say this is often bought with the CPU ; > it says it can support PCIe 4.0, which matches the SSD ; But not the CPU, see above. The primary M.2 slot is connected directly to the CPU with four PCIe lanes, the other slot(s) is/are hooked up through the chipset, which itself is connected to the CPU by another four lanes. > I'ld like to have WIFI available, tho' I may carry on with landline. > Memory : the mobo will accept 32 GB sticks, but I don't need them ; RAM can only be replaced with more RAM. ;-) I also have 32 GB at the mo’. > I've had good experiences with Kingston. There are serveral of your mentioned Kingston 3200 around. Check if you selected the one with the lower latency (the group of numbers like 16-18-18…). AMD graphics benefit hugely from good RAM performance. > SSD : PCIe 4 is much faster than PCI 3 ; 1 TB is enough. PCIe 4 is twice as fast as 3.0, but not available with the 5700G. ;-) > Case : I'm inclined to get '19', > but wonder if there's a serious diffence between 'ATX' vs 'ATXe' : > any advice wb welcome. What do you mean with “19”? If you mean a 19 inch rack, then it’s probably a server form factor. Wikipedia
Re: [gentoo-user] new machine : probable parts for comment
On 13/05/2022 15:43, Michael wrote: On Friday, 13 May 2022 09:39:51 BST Philip Webb wrote: Thanks for the detailed advice, esp Frank + Dale + also Wols + Perkins. These are my proposed parts for ANB6, wh I will buy from Canada Computers ; prices are in CAD, of course ; a few further comments from me below : CPU : AMD : CPAMD00131 : Ryzen 7 : 5700G : 8-core 16-thread : $ 388 Socket AM4 : 3,8 / 4,6 GHz : Radeon Graphix Wreath Stealth Mobo : MBGIG00145 : Gigabyte : X570 Aorus elite WIFI : $ 220 dual PCIe 4.0 M.2 : Intel dual-band 802.11ac wireless front USB Type C : RGB Fusion 2.0 Memory : MEKIT00523 : Kingston Fury Beast : 2 x 16 GB : DDR4 3200 MHz : $ 160 SSD : SSKIT00120 : Kingston KC3000 : 1 TB : PCIe Gen4 : NVMe M.2 R 7000 MB/s ; W 6000 MB/s : $ 190 HDD : HDSEA00016 : Seagate IronWolf : 4 TB : CMR : SATA 6 Gb/s : 5900 RPM : 64 MB Cache : 3 Yr Warranty : $ 110 I'd also look at adding a Toshiba N300 to that, again CMR, again raid-good, and you can mirror them. It'll double read speed as soon as you need to read much from disk. And if you want reliability or more disk space you can then easily upgrade that to raid-5 or -6 with another (couple of) drives. Case : CSDCL00015 : Deepcool D-Shield V2 ATX : Compact Mid Tower Case : $ 60 CSDCL00019 : Deepcool E-Shield : Mid Tower Chassis, Black, Tempered Glass, 120mm Fan, Radiator Support, E-ATX/ATX/MicroATX/MiniITX : $ 60 Power : PSTHL7 : Thermaltake Smart White : 700 W 80 PLUS Certified Power Supply : $ 80 [[ total $ 1268 ]] Comments : the machine is intended to last 7 years , so I'm going for more power + speed than I'm likely to use today ; of course, I don't want to waste CAD, but will pay more for better value ; I don't do gaming, but I do need a powerful machine for Gentoo compiling. CPU : based on Frank's recommendation ; I prefer AMD. Mobo : Canada Computers say this is often bought with the CPU ; my present machine (ANB5) has a Gigabyte mobo, as has its predecessor ; it says it can support PCIe 4.0, which matches the SSD ; I'ld like to have WIFI available, tho' I may carry on with landline. Memory : the mobo will accept 32 GB sticks, but I don't need them ; I've had good experiences with Kingston. SSD : PCIe 4 is much faster than PCI 3 ; 1 TB is enough. HDD : I heard the warnings & this is CMR ; I also heard Frank's advice re spin-speed : this is lower. Case : I'm inclined to get '19', but wonder if there's a serious diffence between 'ATX' vs 'ATXe' : any advice wb welcome. Power : the summary says "700 W", but the specs say "500 W" : the price is a bit more than others which are 500 W & I can ask in the store, so I'm willing to assume "500" is a typo. Any further advice wb very welcome (smile to everyone). I'd try to max out memory, because more will soon be better if historical trends will continue to be observed. You need ~2G per thread on a big compile at present. If you're also running VMs or RAM intensive apps at the same time, you soon regret not having more RAM. I'd also spend more money for RAM of arguably better quality like these, which could also allow you to increase their voltage a touch: Yup. 2x32GB sticks. That's what my current box has and it absolutely flies once it's cached everything in memory. Last I knew, prices had crashed. I think I paid LESS for my 2x32 than I paid for 1x16 for this same computer in its previous (mismatched CPU and mobo) configuration. http://www.gskill.com I'm no serial builder and I tend to build desktops which last a decade or more. Therefore I do not penny-pinch on PSU, RAM, cooling, in that order. On the CPU/APU, I'll buy an AMD on the sweet-spot between performance and price depreciation. Same. Although I use stock cooling because that's "good enough" for a system you don't intend to hammer. I call that sweet spot "the coke/champagne switch", is pricing dominated by materials/transport, or by capacity/R costs. Cheers, Wol
Re: [gentoo-user] new machine : probable parts for comment
On Friday, 13 May 2022 09:39:51 BST Philip Webb wrote: > Thanks for the detailed advice, esp Frank + Dale + also Wols + Perkins. > These are my proposed parts for ANB6, wh I will buy from Canada Computers ; > prices are in CAD, of course ; a few further comments from me below : > > CPU : AMD : CPAMD00131 : Ryzen 7 : 5700G : 8-core 16-thread : $ 388 > Socket AM4 : 3,8 / 4,6 GHz : Radeon Graphix Wreath Stealth > > Mobo : MBGIG00145 : Gigabyte : X570 Aorus elite WIFI : $ 220 > dual PCIe 4.0 M.2 : Intel dual-band 802.11ac wireless > front USB Type C : RGB Fusion 2.0 > > Memory : MEKIT00523 : Kingston Fury Beast : 2 x 16 GB : DDR4 3200 MHz : $ > 160 > > SSD : SSKIT00120 : Kingston KC3000 : 1 TB : PCIe Gen4 : NVMe M.2 >R 7000 MB/s ; W 6000 MB/s : $ 190 > > HDD : HDSEA00016 : Seagate IronWolf : 4 TB : CMR : >SATA 6 Gb/s : 5900 RPM : 64 MB Cache : 3 Yr Warranty : $ 110 > > Case : CSDCL00015 : Deepcool D-Shield V2 ATX : Compact Mid Tower Case : $ 60 > CSDCL00019 : Deepcool E-Shield : Mid Tower Chassis, > Black, Tempered Glass, 120mm Fan, Radiator Support, > E-ATX/ATX/MicroATX/MiniITX : $ 60 > > Power : PSTHL7 : Thermaltake Smart White : 700 W > 80 PLUS Certified Power Supply : $ 80 [[ total $ 1268 ]] > > Comments : the machine is intended to last 7 years , > so I'm going for more power + speed than I'm likely to use today ; > of course, I don't want to waste CAD, but will pay more for better value ; > I don't do gaming, but I do need a powerful machine for Gentoo compiling. > > CPU : based on Frank's recommendation ; I prefer AMD. > Mobo : Canada Computers say this is often bought with the CPU ; > my present machine (ANB5) has a Gigabyte mobo, as has its predecessor ; > it says it can support PCIe 4.0, which matches the SSD ; > I'ld like to have WIFI available, tho' I may carry on with landline. > Memory : the mobo will accept 32 GB sticks, but I don't need them ; > I've had good experiences with Kingston. > SSD : PCIe 4 is much faster than PCI 3 ; 1 TB is enough. > HDD : I heard the warnings & this is CMR ; > I also heard Frank's advice re spin-speed : this is lower. > Case : I'm inclined to get '19', > but wonder if there's a serious diffence between 'ATX' vs 'ATXe' : > any advice wb welcome. > Power : the summary says "700 W", but the specs say "500 W" : > the price is a bit more than others which are 500 W > & I can ask in the store, so I'm willing to assume "500" is a typo. > > Any further advice wb very welcome (smile to everyone). I'd try to max out memory, because more will soon be better if historical trends will continue to be observed. You need ~2G per thread on a big compile at present. If you're also running VMs or RAM intensive apps at the same time, you soon regret not having more RAM. I'd also spend more money for RAM of arguably better quality like these, which could also allow you to increase their voltage a touch: http://www.gskill.com I'm no serial builder and I tend to build desktops which last a decade or more. Therefore I do not penny-pinch on PSU, RAM, cooling, in that order. On the CPU/APU, I'll buy an AMD on the sweet-spot between performance and price depreciation. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] new machine : probable parts for comment
If you don't want gaming you should definitely explore second hand workstations; for example an E5-2680 v4 is arguably quite more CPU than that Ryzen. Mind the power consumption. Best regards, Vasile Vilvoiu On 5/13/22 11:39, Philip Webb wrote: Thanks for the detailed advice, esp Frank + Dale + also Wols + Perkins. These are my proposed parts for ANB6, wh I will buy from Canada Computers ; prices are in CAD, of course ; a few further comments from me below : CPU : AMD : CPAMD00131 : Ryzen 7 : 5700G : 8-core 16-thread : $ 388 Socket AM4 : 3,8 / 4,6 GHz : Radeon Graphix Wreath Stealth Mobo : MBGIG00145 : Gigabyte : X570 Aorus elite WIFI : $ 220 dual PCIe 4.0 M.2 : Intel dual-band 802.11ac wireless front USB Type C : RGB Fusion 2.0 Memory : MEKIT00523 : Kingston Fury Beast : 2 x 16 GB : DDR4 3200 MHz : $ 160 SSD : SSKIT00120 : Kingston KC3000 : 1 TB : PCIe Gen4 : NVMe M.2 R 7000 MB/s ; W 6000 MB/s : $ 190 HDD : HDSEA00016 : Seagate IronWolf : 4 TB : CMR : SATA 6 Gb/s : 5900 RPM : 64 MB Cache : 3 Yr Warranty : $ 110 Case : CSDCL00015 : Deepcool D-Shield V2 ATX : Compact Mid Tower Case : $ 60 CSDCL00019 : Deepcool E-Shield : Mid Tower Chassis, Black, Tempered Glass, 120mm Fan, Radiator Support, E-ATX/ATX/MicroATX/MiniITX : $ 60 Power : PSTHL7 : Thermaltake Smart White : 700 W 80 PLUS Certified Power Supply : $ 80 [[ total $ 1268 ]] Comments : the machine is intended to last 7 years , so I'm going for more power + speed than I'm likely to use today ; of course, I don't want to waste CAD, but will pay more for better value ; I don't do gaming, but I do need a powerful machine for Gentoo compiling. CPU : based on Frank's recommendation ; I prefer AMD. Mobo : Canada Computers say this is often bought with the CPU ; my present machine (ANB5) has a Gigabyte mobo, as has its predecessor ; it says it can support PCIe 4.0, which matches the SSD ; I'ld like to have WIFI available, tho' I may carry on with landline. Memory : the mobo will accept 32 GB sticks, but I don't need them ; I've had good experiences with Kingston. SSD : PCIe 4 is much faster than PCI 3 ; 1 TB is enough. HDD : I heard the warnings & this is CMR ; I also heard Frank's advice re spin-speed : this is lower. Case : I'm inclined to get '19', but wonder if there's a serious diffence between 'ATX' vs 'ATXe' : any advice wb welcome. Power : the summary says "700 W", but the specs say "500 W" : the price is a bit more than others which are 500 W & I can ask in the store, so I'm willing to assume "500" is a typo. Any further advice wb very welcome (smile to everyone).
[gentoo-user] new machine : probable parts for comment
Thanks for the detailed advice, esp Frank + Dale + also Wols + Perkins. These are my proposed parts for ANB6, wh I will buy from Canada Computers ; prices are in CAD, of course ; a few further comments from me below : CPU : AMD : CPAMD00131 : Ryzen 7 : 5700G : 8-core 16-thread : $ 388 Socket AM4 : 3,8 / 4,6 GHz : Radeon Graphix Wreath Stealth Mobo : MBGIG00145 : Gigabyte : X570 Aorus elite WIFI : $ 220 dual PCIe 4.0 M.2 : Intel dual-band 802.11ac wireless front USB Type C : RGB Fusion 2.0 Memory : MEKIT00523 : Kingston Fury Beast : 2 x 16 GB : DDR4 3200 MHz : $ 160 SSD : SSKIT00120 : Kingston KC3000 : 1 TB : PCIe Gen4 : NVMe M.2 R 7000 MB/s ; W 6000 MB/s : $ 190 HDD : HDSEA00016 : Seagate IronWolf : 4 TB : CMR : SATA 6 Gb/s : 5900 RPM : 64 MB Cache : 3 Yr Warranty : $ 110 Case : CSDCL00015 : Deepcool D-Shield V2 ATX : Compact Mid Tower Case : $ 60 CSDCL00019 : Deepcool E-Shield : Mid Tower Chassis, Black, Tempered Glass, 120mm Fan, Radiator Support, E-ATX/ATX/MicroATX/MiniITX : $ 60 Power : PSTHL7 : Thermaltake Smart White : 700 W 80 PLUS Certified Power Supply : $ 80 [[ total $ 1268 ]] Comments : the machine is intended to last 7 years , so I'm going for more power + speed than I'm likely to use today ; of course, I don't want to waste CAD, but will pay more for better value ; I don't do gaming, but I do need a powerful machine for Gentoo compiling. CPU : based on Frank's recommendation ; I prefer AMD. Mobo : Canada Computers say this is often bought with the CPU ; my present machine (ANB5) has a Gigabyte mobo, as has its predecessor ; it says it can support PCIe 4.0, which matches the SSD ; I'ld like to have WIFI available, tho' I may carry on with landline. Memory : the mobo will accept 32 GB sticks, but I don't need them ; I've had good experiences with Kingston. SSD : PCIe 4 is much faster than PCI 3 ; 1 TB is enough. HDD : I heard the warnings & this is CMR ; I also heard Frank's advice re spin-speed : this is lower. Case : I'm inclined to get '19', but wonder if there's a serious diffence between 'ATX' vs 'ATXe' : any advice wb welcome. Power : the summary says "700 W", but the specs say "500 W" : the price is a bit more than others which are 500 W & I can ask in the store, so I'm willing to assume "500" is a typo. Any further advice wb very welcome (smile to everyone). -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
