Re: [gentoo-user] Feckless xdm not much of a manager
On 08/25/2010 01:40 PM, Robert Bridge wrote: On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 8:33 PM, Kevin O'Gorman kogor...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry, but that has several bits of misinformation. xdm is not a generic term, or at least I didn't mean it that way. It's the package x11-apps/xdm. Gentoo uses the term xdm in two ways, one is for the xdm display manager, provided by that package. The other is for the init scripts used to launch a display manager. The init script launches the display manager specified in the config files, kdm being the common one choosen for KDE. You put it very well, Robbie. I should have said xdm is the more ancient term, the generic display manager that's been around since the dawn of X. Which everyone hated. So folks wrote new ones that had more pizazz and nifty features, which they loved. They're all still X display managers (thus, xdm), so you use xdm to start it. One of your display managers could be ye olde xdm, if you choose.
Re: [gentoo-user] Feckless xdm not much of a manager
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 4:00 PM, Stroller strol...@stellar.eclipse.co.ukwrote: On 25 Aug 2010, at 04:36, Kevin O'Gorman wrote: ... My problem has been that going to /etc/init.d and commanding ./xdm stop seems to work, but has no effect on KDE. Manually killing kde (ps -ef | grep kde, etc) just starts another one. I finally figured out that I have to find the 'kdm' process and kill that, then a logoff or Ctl_Alt_BS actually gets rid of X, so I can do things like X -configure and so on. If you run `/etc/init.d/xdm stop` and then log out of KDE using the logoff button in the Start Menu, what happens, please? Does xdm return? Stroller. Things have changed slightly since the last reboot. Now it goes like this: /etc/init.d/xdm stop Kde dies, xdm dies, ps -ef shows no signs of either one, and Ctl-Alt-F7 gets me a blank screen with a blinking cursor, but no response to the keyboard. Back in a root console, /etc/init.d/xdm start or/etc/init.d/xdm status Now reports that xdm is stopping. This goes on until I run out of patience, and zap xdm /etc/init.d/xdm zap /etc/init.d/xdm start which seems to work -- it gets me to a KDE login. I'm not aware of doing anything that would have made this change. -- Kevin O'Gorman, PhD
Re: [gentoo-user] Feckless xdm not much of a manager
On 08/24/2010 08:36 PM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote: In order to make progress on this thing, it's useful to be able to control the display manager. My problem has been that going to /etc/init.d and commanding ./xdm stop seems to work, but has no effect on KDE. Manually killing kde (ps -ef | grep kde, etc) just starts another one. I finally figured out that I have to find the 'kdm' process and kill that, then a logoff or Ctl_Alt_BS actually gets rid of X, so I can do things like X -configure and so on. You ~should~ be able to log onto a console vty by using Ctrl-Alt-Fn (where n=1-6). You can then log on from there and commence all manner of Gentacular shelly goodness. There's really no need to kill the display manager ever. In fact, you can have more than one running at a time. Oddly, ./xdm start worked fine, and was responsible for kdm being started. But isn't it odd that the display manager has such weak control on its subordinate? Big PITA for me. Yeah, that's just a semantic problem, really. The generic term is xdm but depending upon your setup, you can plug in any display manager.
Re: [gentoo-user] Feckless xdm not much of a manager
On 25 August 2010 15:22, Bill Longman bill.long...@gmail.com wrote: On 08/24/2010 08:36 PM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote: In order to make progress on this thing, it's useful to be able to control the display manager. My problem has been that going to /etc/init.d and commanding ./xdm stop seems to work, but has no effect on KDE. Manually killing kde (ps -ef | grep kde, etc) just starts another one. I finally figured out that I have to find the 'kdm' process and kill that, then a logoff or Ctl_Alt_BS actually gets rid of X, so I can do things like X -configure and so on. You ~should~ be able to log onto a console vty by using Ctrl-Alt-Fn (where n=1-6). You can then log on from there and commence all manner of Gentacular shelly goodness. There's really no need to kill the display manager ever. In fact, you can have more than one running at a time. Oddly, ./xdm start worked fine, and was responsible for kdm being started. But isn't it odd that the display manager has such weak control on its subordinate? Big PITA for me. Yeah, that's just a semantic problem, really. The generic term is xdm but depending upon your setup, you can plug in any display manager. Running /etc/init.d/xdm stop should kill kdm too. If it respawns, then run /etc/init.d/xdm zap. -- Regards, Mick
Re: [gentoo-user] Feckless xdm not much of a manager
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 7:22 AM, Bill Longman bill.long...@gmail.comwrote: On 08/24/2010 08:36 PM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote: In order to make progress on this thing, it's useful to be able to control the display manager. My problem has been that going to /etc/init.d and commanding ./xdm stop seems to work, but has no effect on KDE. Manually killing kde (ps -ef | grep kde, etc) just starts another one. I finally figured out that I have to find the 'kdm' process and kill that, then a logoff or Ctl_Alt_BS actually gets rid of X, so I can do things like X -configure and so on. You ~should~ be able to log onto a console vty by using Ctrl-Alt-Fn (where n=1-6). You can then log on from there and commence all manner of Gentacular shelly goodness. There's really no need to kill the display manager ever. In fact, you can have more than one running at a time. Oddly, ./xdm start worked fine, and was responsible for kdm being started. But isn't it odd that the display manager has such weak control on its subordinate? Big PITA for me. Yeah, that's just a semantic problem, really. The generic term is xdm but depending upon your setup, you can plug in any display manager. Sorry, but that has several bits of misinformation. There are 2 or three activities that the system refuses to perform while the display is active. They require X to be shut down, and you must therefore use one of the non-X console ptys. xdm is not a generic term, or at least I didn't mean it that way. It's the package x11-apps/xdm. Look it up. -- Kevin O'Gorman, PhD
Re: [gentoo-user] Feckless xdm not much of a manager
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 7:28 AM, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: On 25 August 2010 15:22, Bill Longman bill.long...@gmail.com wrote: On 08/24/2010 08:36 PM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote: In order to make progress on this thing, it's useful to be able to control the display manager. My problem has been that going to /etc/init.d and commanding ./xdm stop seems to work, but has no effect on KDE. Manually killing kde (ps -ef | grep kde, etc) just starts another one. I finally figured out that I have to find the 'kdm' process and kill that, then a logoff or Ctl_Alt_BS actually gets rid of X, so I can do things like X -configure and so on. [snip] Running /etc/init.d/xdm stop should kill kdm too. If it respawns, then run /etc/init.d/xdm zap. -- Regards, Mick zap does nothing about respawning. It is used when a daemon has somehow died, but is still marked as running. In such a case, you cannot start it again without zapping that marking so that it is recorded as being stopped. I had more or less the opposite case -- a running daemon that was marked as stopped. Not exactly, because it was xdm marked as stopped, and kdm that was running. This problem is repeatable on my system, so I probably borked it somehow. -- Kevin O'Gorman, PhD
Re: [gentoo-user] Feckless xdm not much of a manager
Kevin O'Gorman writes: This problem is repeatable on my system, so I probably borked it somehow. I know this effect, this happens from time to time. At the moment it is working fine, but I got used to killall kdm when the init script did not work. It did not bother me too much, so I did not file a bug yet. Wonko
Re: [gentoo-user] Feckless xdm not much of a manager
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 8:33 PM, Kevin O'Gorman kogor...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry, but that has several bits of misinformation. xdm is not a generic term, or at least I didn't mean it that way. It's the package x11-apps/xdm. Gentoo uses the term xdm in two ways, one is for the xdm display manager, provided by that package. The other is for the init scripts used to launch a display manager. The init script launches the display manager specified in the config files, kdm being the common one choosen for KDE. You are complaining about kdm not shutting down, this is nothing at all to do with x11-apps/xdm, which is an entirely separate package. If you have both running, than, again, kdms inability to behave is NOT a problem of x11-apps/xdm, though, arguably, it could be said to be a problem of openrc. RobbieAB
Re: [gentoo-user] Feckless xdm not much of a manager
On 25 Aug 2010, at 04:36, Kevin O'Gorman wrote: ... My problem has been that going to /etc/init.d and commanding ./xdm stop seems to work, but has no effect on KDE. Manually killing kde (ps -ef | grep kde, etc) just starts another one. I finally figured out that I have to find the 'kdm' process and kill that, then a logoff or Ctl_Alt_BS actually gets rid of X, so I can do things like X -configure and so on. If you run `/etc/init.d/xdm stop` and then log out of KDE using the logoff button in the Start Menu, what happens, please? Does xdm return? Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] Feckless xdm not much of a manager
On 08/25/2010 03:37 PM, Kevin O'Gorman wrote: I had more or less the opposite case -- a running daemon that was marked as stopped. Not exactly, because it was xdm marked as stopped, and kdm that was running. This problem is repeatable on my system, so I probably borked it somehow. Please accept this wild-ass guess from when my Apache instances used to do the same thing. /etc/conf.d/rc -- # Set to yes if start-stop-daemon should attempt to kill # any children left in the system. # Be careful with this as it really does what it was on the tin. # fex, if you're in an ssh process and you restart a service on which # ssh depends then your terminal will be killed also. RC_KILL_CHILDREN=yes
[gentoo-user] Feckless xdm not much of a manager
I'm actually working to integrate a new HD monitor in a system built before HD was invented. The monitor works better than the old one, but just in 4:3 aspect mode. But that's another thread, I only mention it so you know I'm as well off as I was before the old monitor fritzed out on me. In order to make progress on this thing, it's useful to be able to control the display manager. My problem has been that going to /etc/init.d and commanding ./xdm stop seems to work, but has no effect on KDE. Manually killing kde (ps -ef | grep kde, etc) just starts another one. I finally figured out that I have to find the 'kdm' process and kill that, then a logoff or Ctl_Alt_BS actually gets rid of X, so I can do things like X -configure and so on. Oddly, ./xdm start worked fine, and was responsible for kdm being started. But isn't it odd that the display manager has such weak control on its subordinate? Big PITA for me. Gr. -- Kevin O'Gorman, PhD
