Re: [gentoo-user] install under centos606

[R0b0t1]

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 6:49 AM,   wrote:
> Any likely problems if i install the stage3 tarball etc. under centos6.6?
> tried the live dvd but it has problems with my current graphics card
> (framebuffer driver).

Sir, I would be extremely careful with that release: both the major
and minor version are the number of the beast. If anything goes wrong
I do not doubt it is possible to spend time troubleshooting it, but in
general I would chalk the existence of most problems up to Satan's
involvement.

I will be sure to pray for you so that you might get Gentoo installed.
I have found my Gentoo usership to be a very rewarding experience.

Respectfully,
 R0b0t1

Re: [gentoo-user] install under centos606

[R0b0t1]

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 7:08 AM, Ralph Seichter
 wrote:
> On 21.08.2017 13:49, mad.scientist.at.la...@tutanota.com wrote:
>
>> I'm excited about using gentoo, though the online instructions could
>> really use more structuring, i.e. it's hard to avoid reading the parts
>> you don't need to and the "flow" is rather lost. It's an extremely
>> verbose document which makes it very hard to get the gist of the install
>> procedure. it's not a bad document, merely poorly organized. [...]
>
> I completely disagree. I consider the Gentoo installation documentation
> well structured, easy to follow and precise, and I don't know what your
> statements like "most newbies would be helplessly confused" are supposed
> to be based on. Please don't try to pass on your personal opinions as
> facts without providing any proof. Show us a control group of newbies,
> most of them helplessly confused, if you can. ;-)
>

I think most of the problem is all the handbook does is give you a
working system in the technical sense. Everything else is up to you to
discover, which can be very hard if you are lacking terminology or
very specific experience.

A good example of a more fully featured guide is Sakaki's EFI
Installation Guide
(https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Sakaki's_EFI_Install_Guide). I have
proposed the handbook be updated, at least on an architecture-specific
basis, to reflect common installation options (as was it seems was
originally intended). However, the Handbook team seems very
conservative and hard to contact.

Among my suggestions were transferring the Handbook to Gollum, so the
pages could be managed from Git. Porting the whole Wiki to Gollum
might make it hard for normal users to contribute, but I suspect only
particularly adept users would have good contributions to the
Handbook.

R0b0t1.

Re: [gentoo-user] install under centos606

[Stroller]

> On 21 Aug 2017, at 12:49, mad.scientist.at.la...@tutanota.com wrote:
> 
> I'm excited about using gentoo, though the online instructions could really 
> use more structuring, i.e. it's hard to avoid reading the parts you don't 
> need to and the "flow" is rather lost.  It's an extremely verbose document 
> which makes it very hard to get the gist of the install procedure.  it's not 
> a bad document, merely poorly organised.

I always use the quick install guide, although I don't know if it's as well 
maintained.

https://www.google.co.uk/#q=gentoo+quick+install

Stroller


PS: Could I ask you to set your mailer to use plain text when posting to the 
list, please?

Re: [gentoo-user] install under centos606

[Mick]

On Monday, 21 August 2017 12:49:27 BST mad.scientist.at.la...@tutanota.com 
wrote:
> Any likely problems if i install the stage3 tarball etc. under centos6.6? 
> tried the live dvd but it has problems with my current graphics card
> (framebuffer driver). 

I haven't tried out installing Gentoo using a CentOS LiveCD, but I have 
installed it using Knoppix and more recently I have been exclusively using 
systemrescueCD.  I recommend you give it a spin.


> I'm excited about using gentoo, though the online instructions could really
> use more structuring, i.e. it's hard to avoid reading the parts you don't
> need to and the "flow" is rather lost.

I think the flow is not bad, for my needs at least.  For example this page 
offers a chapter at a time:

 https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64

which walks you through the installation in a structured manner.  You can skip 
the section you are familiar with or have processed already.


> It's an extremely verbose document
> which makes it very hard to get the gist of the install procedure.

Well you can't cover all edge use cases in a document which has to introduce 
new users to this meta-distro, but it should get any willing participant to a 
boot prompt after some diligent application of keyboard effort.


> it's
> not a bad document, merely poorly organized.  I do appreciate the work that
> went into it, and it's good to have the detail available, but a more
> hierarchical procedure would be more readable and understandable.  i'm
> fairly experienced at linux and it's hard for me to follow, most newbies
> would  be helplessly confused.  Once i'm more familiar with gentoo i'd be
> happy to take a stab at it, but not until i'm far more familiar.  Thank you
> for what is likely the best distro for me and for being transparent, this
> is meant as purely constructive criticism, and i know no documentation can
> please all.  no flames please, i've given up on other distro's who's mail
> list are full of flamers, something that doesn't help anyone.
> 
> /OT
> yes, i'm dysgraphic, but i try to be concise and use good grammar, and all
> of my sentences go somewhere.  I also don't expect non-native speakers to
> be perfect, i know english is a somewhat ugly language in many cases (like
> spelling), but that's because like gentoo, pieces have been borrowed from
> all over.  that eclectic nature can be very useful but tends to slightly
> complicate things and webster didn't do us any favors.  i'm 54 and learned
> to write cursive/script at least 4 times, it never stuck.  my brain works
> differently than most but that's often a good thing (i tend to notice
> things many people miss, and often miss what is obvious to others to some
> degree).  so bear with me and you might learn something, or ignore my posts
> and the insight in them but please don't think you can help more than an
> army of educators has.  if you try to shame me the fault is your's.  i am
> dyslexic, there are worse things.  i do pay special attention to
> abbreviations where capitalisation can really matter, it is alot more of an
> effort for me than for most./OTOFF

For someone who is dysgraphic/dyslexic I think you are managing extremely 
well, so this won't stop you trying out Gentoo, even if the handbook appears 
awkward at times.  I seem to recall a shorter guide for more advanced users 
but I can't find it at present.  Others may have a URL for it.

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] install under centos606

[Zhu Sha Zang]

Nice cross posting "fairly experienced at linux" guy...


Regards


On 08/21/2017 07:49 AM, mad.scientist.at.la...@tutanota.com wrote:

fairly experienced at linux

Re: [gentoo-user] install under centos606

[Ralph Seichter]

On 21.08.2017 13:49, mad.scientist.at.la...@tutanota.com wrote:

> I'm excited about using gentoo, though the online instructions could
> really use more structuring, i.e. it's hard to avoid reading the parts
> you don't need to and the "flow" is rather lost. It's an extremely
> verbose document which makes it very hard to get the gist of the install
> procedure. it's not a bad document, merely poorly organized. [...]

I completely disagree. I consider the Gentoo installation documentation
well structured, easy to follow and precise, and I don't know what your
statements like "most newbies would be helplessly confused" are supposed
to be based on. Please don't try to pass on your personal opinions as
facts without providing any proof. Show us a control group of newbies,
most of them helplessly confused, if you can. ;-)

-Ralph

[gentoo-user] install under centos606

[mad.scientist.at.large]

Any likely problems if i install the stage3 tarball etc. under centos6.6?  
tried the live dvd but it has problems with my current graphics card 
(framebuffer driver).  

I'm excited about using gentoo, though the online instructions could really use 
more structuring, i.e. it's hard to avoid reading the parts you don't need to 
and the "flow" is rather lost.  It's an extremely verbose document which makes 
it very hard to get the gist of the install procedure.  it's not a bad 
document, merely poorly organized.  I do appreciate the work that went into it, 
and it's good to have the detail available, but a more hierarchical procedure 
would be more readable and understandable.  i'm fairly experienced at linux and 
it's hard for me to follow, most newbies would  be helplessly confused.  Once 
i'm more familiar with gentoo i'd be happy to take a stab at it, but not until 
i'm far more familiar.  Thank you for what is likely the best distro for me and 
for being transparent, this is meant as purely constructive criticism, and i 
know no documentation can please all.  no flames please, i've given up on other 
distro's who's mail list are full of flamers, something that doesn't help 
anyone.

/OT
yes, i'm dysgraphic, but i try to be concise and use good grammar, and all of 
my sentences go somewhere.  I also don't expect non-native speakers to be 
perfect, i know english is a somewhat ugly language in many cases (like 
spelling), but that's because like gentoo, pieces have been borrowed from all 
over.  that eclectic nature can be very useful but tends to slightly complicate 
things and webster didn't do us any favors.  i'm 54 and learned to write 
cursive/script at least 4 times, it never stuck.  my brain works differently 
than most but that's often a good thing (i tend to notice things many people 
miss, and often miss what is obvious to others to some degree).  so bear with 
me and you might learn something, or ignore my posts and the insight in them 
but please don't think you can help more than an army of educators has.  if you 
try to shame me the fault is your's.  i am dyslexic, there are worse things.  i 
do pay special attention to abbreviations where capitalisation can really 
matter, it is alot more of an effort for me than for most./OTOFF