Re: [gentoo-user] Skype is awesome, what is sound daemon for?
might shed some light (and links) to things you might want to look at if Skype bothers you ;-) I have used gnomemeeting before though, and although it's a great product it had a load of dependencies which deam it in my eyes as not-worth-the-effort, seeing as I don't have gnome installed. This was actually a reason I reccomend Skype to most users who are looking for such a program as it has very few dependencies, and is easy to configure and use. It sounds like gnomemeeting does do PC to phone calls for a charge: http://www.gnomemeeting.org/index.php?rub=3pos=0faqpage=x177.html A pretend emerge has a list of 7 dependencies for me, none of which are gnome related. I don't have gnome installed, but I must have something else that pulled gnome stuff in as dependencies. I'll give this a try and let everyone know how it goes. - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Skype is awesome, what is sound daemon for?
Ralph Slooten wrote: However to answer your question as best I can. Basically all software used to phone fixed lines will have some charge or another I believe. Gnomemeeting apparently does this too (since recently) or at least I heard, but I know too little about that to make a judgement. http://www.gnomemeeting.org/index.php?rub=3pos=0faqpage=index.html#AEN21 might shed some light (and links) to things you might want to look at if Skype bothers you ;-) I have used gnomemeeting before though, and although it's a great product it had a load of dependencies which deam it in my eyes as not-worth-the-effort, seeing as I don't have gnome installed. This was actually a reason I reccomend Skype to most users who are looking for such a program as it has very few dependencies, and is easy to configure and use. You should do this: emerge -av gnomemeeting If there are too many dependencies then disable some of the use flags like this: echo net-im/gnomemeeting -ipv6 -sdl -ssl -howl -gnome /etc/portage/package.use Zac -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Skype is awesome, what is sound daemon for?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Daniel da Veiga wrote: Skype searches for sound daemons, but I notice it never uses them, OSS always (or the emulated OSS under ALSA), maybe will come handy in the future of development. Skype does not search for demons at all, the gentoo sound-wrapper script does. I wouldn't worry about the Linux version dissapear, the FREE version, OH YES, just like Kazaa and its bunch of spyware. Skype will ramain free (they state this on the website, including skype-to-skype calls always), and it is also spyware-free too. Comparing KaZaA and Skype is not a very good comparison at all dude... Besides, if you take a look at the license you agree when you use it (and I am almost a lawyer), taking your freedom away is the least they are doying. You basically agree that they may use your idle bandwidth and CPU time for any anonymous purpose. I won't let them use my computer without me knowing what's going on. Sure, a GREAT software, but FREE?! *lol* don't be fooled, they are getting well paid, believe me. The licence states: quote 4.1 Permission to utilize Your computer. In order to receive the benefits provided by the Skype Software, you hereby grant permission for the Skype Software to utilize the processor and bandwidth of Your computer for the limited purpose of facilitating the communication between You and other Skype Software users. /quote This means (in simple english) that your Skype maintains it's own online status, and uses it's own bandwidth to stay online and in contact with other contacts you have in your list. for the limited purpose of facilitating the communication between You and other Skype Software users does *NOT* mean You basically agree that they may use your idle bandwidth and CPU time for any anonymous purpose at all ~ And you are almost a lawyer you say, p. Ralph -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (MingW32) iD8DBQFCqVuaAWKxH5yWMT8RAlsZAKD31segxIxHfi28+nzQyAp+DijPfwCgvgQL Fd9iSYce2AdZNayRfCDA6H0= =W64R -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Skype is awesome, what is sound daemon for?
Skype searches for sound daemons, but I notice it never uses them, OSS always (or the emulated OSS under ALSA), maybe will come handy in the future of development. Skype does not search for demons at all, the gentoo sound-wrapper script does. I wouldn't worry about the Linux version dissapear, the FREE version, OH YES, just like Kazaa and its bunch of spyware. Skype will ramain free (they state this on the website, including skype-to-skype calls always), and it is also spyware-free too. Comparing KaZaA and Skype is not a very good comparison at all dude... Besides, if you take a look at the license you agree when you use it (and I am almost a lawyer), taking your freedom away is the least they are doying. You basically agree that they may use your idle bandwidth and CPU time for any anonymous purpose. I won't let them use my computer without me knowing what's going on. Sure, a GREAT software, but FREE?! *lol* don't be fooled, they are getting well paid, believe me. The licence states: quote 4.1 Permission to utilize Your computer. In order to receive the benefits provided by the Skype Software, you hereby grant permission for the Skype Software to utilize the processor and bandwidth of Your computer for the limited purpose of facilitating the communication between You and other Skype Software users. /quote This means (in simple english) that your Skype maintains it's own online status, and uses it's own bandwidth to stay online and in contact with other contacts you have in your list. for the limited purpose of facilitating the communication between You and other Skype Software users does *NOT* mean You basically agree that they may use your idle bandwidth and CPU time for any anonymous purpose at all ~ And you are almost a lawyer you say, p. Ralph Very interesting. It's starting to sound like Skype isn't the devil after all. Is there any other software that will let me make calls to regular phone lines from my Linux computer? Free would be better, but I don't mind proprietary software and per-minute charges if there are no alternatives. - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Skype is awesome, what is sound daemon for?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Grant, Grant wrote: Very interesting. It's starting to sound like Skype isn't the devil after all. Is there any other software that will let me make calls to regular phone lines from my Linux computer? Free would be better, but I don't mind proprietary software and per-minute charges if there are no alternatives. ;-) .. That was my point exactly. Skype isn't the devil at all, at least it isn't if you don't have anything against closed-source commercial software. It was not my intention to cause waves, but it does iritate me when closed-source gets bashed right into the ground purely for being closed source/commercial without actually looking at the product itself. To tell you the truth I would also prefer an open-source alternative, however there are none that work as well on all 3 major platforms (yeah, I have friends who use all and skype works great for all of them). However to answer your question as best I can. Basically all software used to phone fixed lines will have some charge or another I believe. Gnomemeeting apparently does this too (since recently) or at least I heard, but I know too little about that to make a judgement. http://www.gnomemeeting.org/index.php?rub=3pos=0faqpage=index.html#AEN21 might shed some light (and links) to things you might want to look at if Skype bothers you ;-) I have used gnomemeeting before though, and although it's a great product it had a load of dependencies which deam it in my eyes as not-worth-the-effort, seeing as I don't have gnome installed. This was actually a reason I reccomend Skype to most users who are looking for such a program as it has very few dependencies, and is easy to configure and use. Hope this helps ;-) Ralph -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (MingW32) iD8DBQFCqbHWAWKxH5yWMT8RAunMAJ9uOrNP3oU+UVVwUBUoZNk+ih9hCgCePZYI U1R6AHMX2mqKxy9clsgFJsE= =7cSE -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Skype is awesome, what is sound daemon for?
Hi, I'm sorry for the noise I caused, but I want to clarify some things: Skype *is* awesome in terms of any Linux product. It works on almost all major distros out-of-the-box without any configuration needed (firewall included). This cannot be said for apps like gnomemeeting etc... They need severasl ports forwarded before they work properly which is often a PITA for the Linux-newbie. That's right. From a usability point of view it's really a great app. [...] As for removing Skype in the future?? Where do you get your information from? It sounds to me like your personal opinion which is based on nothing more than your pro-gpl / anti-the-rest attitude. Please note that I'm not RMS. I have no problem with commercial software. You do realise that Skype being commercial is a company which like *every* other commercial company *needs* to make money to survive? Of course :) . Their p2p method *will* remain free too, and as for them dropping the Linux version well you do realise that Linux is playing more and more of a major role in the business desktop market right? Currently: yes. Why would they cut their own money-supply off by dropping Linux (which, for the record, they aren't). They will in case Linux will not be this successful as we all expect. That's a normal behaviour for a company, like Adobe dropping Mac support for Framemaker etc. have regular contact with their developers ... I think I would know if they were dropping the Linux support ~ that is unless you know something I don't ? Sorry, their developers will be the last people who know about the business plans of the management :) . Sigh ... another twisted opinion of the word freedom. Dude, it's freedom in terms of free to choose (and to have a choice), rather than as long as it's free (price) AND GPL then it's OK ~ otherwise they are just \abusing\ you. No. I have no problem with the Skype client being closed source software at all. But I have a problem seeing a single company controlling the worldwide IP telkephony with a proprietary protocol. For me it's not that important to have software at no cost, for me it's important to have open file formats and protocols, so there are not only choices today, but I also have a choice tomorrow. And Skype does exactly what I fear: They try to control the VOIP market, and everyone using Skype helps them to reach this goal. As soon as they will open their protocol, I'll immediately change my opinion. Best regards ce -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Skype is awesome, what is sound daemon for?
Skype knows nothing about artsd or esd. The reason you see
that message is that the execution of skype is done by
a shell script which checks for the existence of one of
these daemons, and if found, fools skype into using it
via some clever (but not original) subterfuge.
I assume the wrapper was implemented by whoever packaged skype
for gentoo. The library subterfuge seems to have been developed
by the sound daemon developers as a transition aid to allow
legacy OSS apps to be used.
The mechanism involved is to insert a new dynamic linked
library for the interface to the open()/close()/.. etc
system calls, and check every open() call to see if it
is opening '/dev/dsp'. If it is, you replace it with a
sound daemon initialization and intercept all subsequent
I/O on the associated file descripter. All other IO is
passed through to the OS normally.
I have been tinkering with it because I wanted to use skype on
a remote X terminal with networked audio. That requires
intercepting the /dev/dsp I/O for both play and record, and
the full duplex operation is proving tricky.
If you want to see the details of what is going on, look at the
shell script:
% more /opt/skype/skype
#!/bin/bash
#
# Wrapper script to run Skype with sound wrapper when possible
logfile=${HOME}/.Skype/skype.log
progname=skype
progpath=/opt/${progname}/
progopts=--resources-path ${progpath}
shellcheck1=` which artsshell 2 /dev/null `
shellcheck2=` which esd 2 /dev/null `
artsdcheck=` ps x | grep artsd | grep -v grep `
## We use ps ax for esd as esd can be used globaly for all users.
esdcheck=` ps ax | grep esd . | grep -v grep `
skypecmd=${progpath}${progname}.bin
wrapsound=yes
.
.
.
You will see it is easy enough to get rid of those annoying messages
if you arn't interested in the sound daemons.
Regards,
DigbyT
On Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 12:34:56AM +0200, Christoph Eckert wrote:
What I'm confused about is the message I get when running
skype from the command line:
No running artsd or esd found
Starting skype without sound daemon
Same for me.
There are arts and esd USE flags for skype. Where do these
sound daemons come in?
I guess that Skype tells us that it seems to be aware of sound
deamons but it isn't (yet).
Best regards
ce
--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
--
Digby R. S. Tarvin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.digbyt.com
--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Skype is awesome, what is sound daemon for?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sorry to reply late on this, but statements like this cannot go unchallenged: Christoph Eckert wrote: Skype isn't awesome. They did it right in terms of usability. But do not forget that they are abusing you, the user, to penetrate the market with their proprietary protocol- As soon as this happened, it is likely that the Linux version disappears. Skype *is* awesome in terms of any Linux product. It works on almost all major distros out-of-the-box without any configuration needed (firewall included). This cannot be said for apps like gnomemeeting etc... They need severasl ports forwarded before they work properly which is often a PITA for the Linux-newbie. The only real issues (sound) I have come across with users are mainly Gentoo users who use the ebuilds, which in term uses a self-created sound-wrapper file which unfortunately does not work with everyone. As for removing Skype in the future?? Where do you get your information from? It sounds to me like your personal opinion which is based on nothing more than your pro-gpl / anti-the-rest attitude. You do realise that Skype being commercial is a company which like *every* other commercial company *needs* to make money to survive? Their p2p method *will* remain free too, and as for them dropping the Linux version well you do realise that Linux is playing more and more of a major role in the business desktop market right? Why would they cut their own money-supply off by dropping Linux (which, for the record, they aren't). I am a beta tester for Skype and have regular contact with their developers ... I think I would know if they were dropping the Linux support ~ that is unless you know something I don't ? So, if you like your freedom, search for free alternatives, and if there are none, help building them. There already are alternatives like linphone, SFLphone or KPhone. Sigh ... another twisted opinion of the word freedom. Dude, it's freedom in terms of free to choose (and to have a choice), rather than as long as it's free (price) AND GPL then it's OK ~ otherwise they are just \abusing\ you. Greetings Ralph -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCqSX1AWKxH5yWMT8RAjgwAJ9X9F56kfids34h5dt7+P/Gey9XlACg7d6n l80AsmMe+zeAnaywV2j+ccA= =eU1S -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Skype is awesome, what is sound daemon for?
I just got set up with SkypeOut and that thing is awesome. I'm not using the kde or enlightenment sound daemons. http://www.skype.com/help/faq/linux.html »What sound system does Skype for Linux beta use? Skype for Linux beta uses OSS (Open Sound System), using /dev/dsp as its audio input and output device. It works fine also with ALSA and its OSS emulation layer. Native support for other sound systems will be added in the future.« This means: * No sounddemon gets used * ALSA doesn't get used (directly) * OSS gets used * But if you have ALSA installed it will work via the ALSA OSS emulation * If your card doesn't support hardware mixing (most consumer cards do not) only one application or soundserver can run on the card. If Skype blocks the card, you cannot use any other audio application * EVen with DMIX (ALSA software mixing plugin) it will be difficult because DMIX cannot handle transparently OSS requesting apps Best regards ce -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Skype is awesome, what is sound daemon for?
I just got set up with SkypeOut and that thing is awesome. I'm not using the kde or enlightenment sound daemons. http://www.skype.com/help/faq/linux.html »What sound system does Skype for Linux beta use? Skype for Linux beta uses OSS (Open Sound System), using /dev/dsp as its audio input and output device. It works fine also with ALSA and its OSS emulation layer. Native support for other sound systems will be added in the future.« This means: * No sounddemon gets used * ALSA doesn't get used (directly) * OSS gets used * But if you have ALSA installed it will work via the ALSA OSS emulation * If your card doesn't support hardware mixing (most consumer cards do not) only one application or soundserver can run on the card. If Skype blocks the card, you cannot use any other audio application * EVen with DMIX (ALSA software mixing plugin) it will be difficult because DMIX cannot handle transparently OSS requesting apps What I'm confused about is the message I get when running skype from the command line: No running artsd or esd found Starting skype without sound daemon There are arts and esd USE flags for skype. Where do these sound daemons come in? - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Skype is awesome, what is sound daemon for?
Skype isn't awesome. They did it right in terms of usability. But do not forget that they are abusing you, the user, to penetrate the market with their proprietary protocol- As soon as this happened, it is likely that the Linux version disappears. Why would they remove the Linux version? That would mean less people will use and pay for their software. So, if you like your freedom, search for free alternatives, and if there are none, help building them. There already are alternatives like linphone, SFLphone or KPhone. Do those alternatives let you call normal phone lines? It's hard to tell from these: http://www.linphone.org http://www.sflphone.org/ http://www.wirlab.net/kphone/ It looks like linphone and kphone are in portage but not sflphone? - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Skype is awesome, what is sound daemon for?
Skype searches for sound daemons, but I notice it never uses them, OSS always (or the emulated OSS under ALSA), maybe will come handy in the future of development. I wouldn't worry about the Linux version dissapear, the FREE version, OH YES, just like Kazaa and its bunch of spyware. Besides, if you take a look at the license you agree when you use it (and I am almost a lawyer), taking your freedom away is the least they are doying. You basically agree that they may use your idle bandwidth and CPU time for any anonymous purpose. I won't let them use my computer without me knowing what's going on. Sure, a GREAT software, but FREE?! *lol* don't be fooled, they are getting well paid, believe me. On 6/8/05, Grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Skype isn't awesome. They did it right in terms of usability. But do not forget that they are abusing you, the user, to penetrate the market with their proprietary protocol- As soon as this happened, it is likely that the Linux version disappears. Why would they remove the Linux version? That would mean less people will use and pay for their software. So, if you like your freedom, search for free alternatives, and if there are none, help building them. There already are alternatives like linphone, SFLphone or KPhone. Do those alternatives let you call normal phone lines? It's hard to tell from these: http://www.linphone.org http://www.sflphone.org/ http://www.wirlab.net/kphone/ It looks like linphone and kphone are in portage but not sflphone? - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- Daniel da Veiga Computer Operator - RS - Brazil -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Skype is awesome, what is sound daemon for?
What I'm confused about is the message I get when running skype from the command line: No running artsd or esd found Starting skype without sound daemon Same for me. There are arts and esd USE flags for skype. Where do these sound daemons come in? I guess that Skype tells us that it seems to be aware of sound deamons but it isn't (yet). Best regards ce -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Skype is awesome, what is sound daemon for?
You basically agree that they may use your idle bandwidth and CPU time for any anonymous purpose. Ops. THe police is standing in front of my house and calling me a spammer ;-) ? I won't let them use my computer without me knowing what's going on. Sure, a GREAT software, Yes. but FREE?! *lol* don't be fooled, they are getting well paid, believe me. Agreed again. Best regards ce -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Skype is awesome, what is sound daemon for?
Why would they remove the Linux version? That would mean less people will use and pay for their software. As soon as their protocol has penetrated all corporate VOIP networks, the few linux users aren't of any interest. Maybe they will keep the Linux client available, maybe for free, but as always in the commercial software world, it is not guaranteed. It even can happen that they stop the free linux client and change the protocol at the same time - and exclude linux users from their network. Companies then will think Linux cannot be used on the desktop, because there's no Skype client for it.. I can also think about other scenarios. So, if you like your freedom, search for free alternatives, and if there are none, help building them. There already are alternatives like linphone, SFLphone or KPhone. Do those alternatives let you call normal phone lines? It's hard to tell from these: http://www.linphone.org http://www.sflphone.org/ http://www.wirlab.net/kphone/ That's the problem. You can easily use the software mentioned to call a friend who gave you his IP address. But you cannot call into the classical phone net. To do so, you need a service provider who has gateways all over the world. And this is something which cannot be solved by the open source community. Lets talk about further advantages of Skype: * Real-name Telphone numbers * Bandwidth saving (= ISDN) * Ease of use * Possibility to call into the classical phone net The last one can be provided by any provider who has some servers. But as in the instant message world, the providers often make their protocols incompatible not for technical, but for customer gagging :( . Best regards ce -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Skype is awesome, what is sound daemon for?
That's the problem. You can easily use the software mentioned to call a friend who gave you his IP address. But you cannot call into the classical phone net. To do so, you need a service provider who has gateways all over the world. And this is something which cannot be solved by the open source community. I need something that will let me call real phone numbers from my laptop wherever it is connected to the Internet. What is the best solution for this? - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Skype is awesome, what is sound daemon for?
No running artsd or esd found Starting skype without sound daemon There are arts and esd USE flags for skype. Where do these sound daemons come in? If they had been started already, skype would have been started wrapped by artdsp (this is what happens for arts, at least). When no sound daemon is found (running) then skype accesses /dev/dsp directly (thus blocking the sound card and preventing any other concurrent access to it!) Antonino -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
