Re: [gentoo-user] android and mtp
on 2012-12-22 at 17:13 Alan McKinnon wrote: Now, imagine you are the guy at Samsung deciding what features the S2 will support. Which option you gonna pick? yeah, you're right, i guess. but for once i'd like the guys at the corporations to think like me, and not to be forced to think like them...
Re: [gentoo-user] android and mtp
on 2012-12-22 at 22:57 Neil Bothwick wrote: I tried it and soon uninstalled it. Not only does it only allow access to the SD card (the internal storage can't be unmounted) but even that was unreliable. well, that's good to know. by now i already have my phone rooted :-) but things seem to be working with jmtpfs, so i might just leave it at that.
Re: [gentoo-user] android and mtp
on 2012-12-21 at 14:26 Mark Knecht wrote: I managed to mount it successfully using jmtpfs from the poly-c overlay. thank you mark, i got it working now. i created an entry in fstab, and i can mount/umount it with simple mount and umount commands (i still haven't managed to make it work using the devices widget in the xfce panel). best, lj
Re: [gentoo-user] android and mtp
on 2012-12-21 at 23:20 Neil Bothwick wrote: No, and there's a good reason for that. well, i'm glad to know that there's a good reason to use MTP, because what i've read so far about it made me wonder... from the link mark sent earlier: quote libmtp (and I assume the MTP protocol itself) doesn’t support seeking within a file or partial file reads or writes. You have to fetch or send the entire file. To simluate normal random access files, when a file is opened the entire file contents are copied from the device to a temporary file. Reads and writes then operate on the temporary file. When the file is closed (or if a flush or fsync occurs) then if a write has occurred since the file was last opened the entire contents of the temporary file are sent back to the device. This means repeatedly opening a file, making a small change, and closing it again will be very slow. Renaming or moving a file is implemented by copying the file from the device, writing it back to the device under the new name, and then deleting the original file. This makes renames, especially for large files, slow. This has special significance when using rsync to copy files to the device. Rsync copies to a temporary file, and then when the copy is complete it renames the temporary file to the real filename. So when rsyncing to a jmtpfs filessystem, for each file, the data gets copied to the device, read back, and then copied to the device again. There is a true rename (but not move) supported by libmtp, but this appears to confuse some Android apps, so I don’t use it. Image files, for example, will disappear from the Gallery if they’re renamed. /quote
Re: [gentoo-user] android and mtp
On Sat, 22 Dec 2012 10:01:37 -0200 luis jure l...@internet.com.uy wrote: on 2012-12-21 at 23:20 Neil Bothwick wrote: No, and there's a good reason for that. well, i'm glad to know that there's a good reason to use MTP, because what i've read so far about it made me wonder... It all becomes understandable when you figure out what MTP actually is. It's Media Transfer Protocol, it's not eg Media Transfer Filesystem. Wiki tells you some more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Transfer_Protocol So it's a protocol for getting an entire file (originally usually an mp3) from storage to a device that would play it. It makes sense to copy the entire file to an mp3 player then play it, seeks would not involve network (or bus) traffic. Consider that http also doesn't let you usually transfer bits of files. That protocol is also happier giving you all or nothing (yes, you can do partial downloads, but that's not really a seek action, it's a once-off action to say where the start of the copy happens from. from the link mark sent earlier: quote libmtp (and I assume the MTP protocol itself) doesn’t support seeking within a file or partial file reads or writes. You have to fetch or send the entire file. To simluate normal random access files, when a file is opened the entire file contents are copied from the device to a temporary file. Reads and writes then operate on the temporary file. When the file is closed (or if a flush or fsync occurs) then if a write has occurred since the file was last opened the entire contents of the temporary file are sent back to the device. This means repeatedly opening a file, making a small change, and closing it again will be very slow. Renaming or moving a file is implemented by copying the file from the device, writing it back to the device under the new name, and then deleting the original file. This makes renames, especially for large files, slow. This has special significance when using rsync to copy files to the device. Rsync copies to a temporary file, and then when the copy is complete it renames the temporary file to the real filename. So when rsyncing to a jmtpfs filessystem, for each file, the data gets copied to the device, read back, and then copied to the device again. There is a true rename (but not move) supported by libmtp, but this appears to confuse some Android apps, so I don’t use it. Image files, for example, will disappear from the Gallery if they’re renamed. /quote -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] android and mtp
on 2012-12-22 at 14:15 Alan McKinnon wrote: It all becomes understandable when you figure out what MTP actually is. yes, of course, thanks for the pointers. but i learned of the existence of this MTP thing only yesterday, and frankly, at first i couldn't see what was the advantage over plain ol' UMS for these kind of devices (not 100% convinced yet...). BTW, i found an application that makes the external sd card (not the phone card) available as USB mass storage device: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1711009 i tried it, but it only runs on rooted phones, apparently. i've had mine only two days and i haven't rooted it yet. best, lj
Re: [gentoo-user] android and mtp
On Sat, 22 Dec 2012 10:49:42 -0200 luis jure l...@internet.com.uy wrote: on 2012-12-22 at 14:15 Alan McKinnon wrote: It all becomes understandable when you figure out what MTP actually is. yes, of course, thanks for the pointers. but i learned of the existence of this MTP thing only yesterday, and frankly, at first i couldn't see what was the advantage over plain ol' UMS for these kind of devices (not 100% convinced yet...). Don't overthink it. Think like this: With UMS: User umounts sdcard. User writes lots of mp3's. User starts Google Maps (or any app moved to scdard). User gets error. User whinges at Samsung and Google. These bug tickets never stop coming. With only MTP: User plugs PC to phone. User does whatever user wants. User does not whinge at Samsung and Google. Now, imagine you are the guy at Samsung deciding what features the S2 will support. Which option you gonna pick? BTW, i found an application that makes the external sd card (not the phone card) available as USB mass storage device: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1711009 i tried it, but it only runs on rooted phones, apparently. i've had mine only two days and i haven't rooted it yet. best, lj -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] android and mtp
On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 3:09 AM, luis jure l...@internet.com.uy wrote: on 2012-12-21 at 14:26 Mark Knecht wrote: I managed to mount it successfully using jmtpfs from the poly-c overlay. thank you mark, i got it working now. i created an entry in fstab, and i can mount/umount it with simple mount and umount commands (i still haven't managed to make it work using the devices widget in the xfce panel). best, lj Happy to have helped even a little. Cheers, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] android and mtp
On Sat, 22 Dec 2012 10:49:42 -0200, luis jure wrote: BTW, i found an application that makes the external sd card (not the phone card) available as USB mass storage device: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1711009 i tried it, but it only runs on rooted phones, apparently. i've had mine only two days and i haven't rooted it yet. I tried it and soon uninstalled it. Not only does it only allow access to the SD card (the internal storage can't be unmounted) but even that was unreliable. Not that I've found any of the MTP implementations I've tried to be 100% reliable. I often use SFTP, it may be a little slower but I gain back the time I'd spend looking for the USB cable ;-) -- Neil Bothwick If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein) signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] android and mtp
On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 3:56 PM, luis jure l...@internet.com.uy wrote: hello list, i would appreciate suggestions and recommendations to manage a device (samsung galaxy note II) with android ICS. as you may know (i didn't until today...), ICS doesn't connect the device as a good old USB mass storage device, but rather using this MTP thing. i googled a bit and found that i already had libmtp installed. mtp-detect sees the device alright. any ideas what would be the best and easiest way to mount/umount the device for file transfer, syncing, etc? i'm using xfce, and it would be ideal if i could find a way that integrates well with the desktop. I think you can use mtpfs and then browse it like any other disk. I don't have any MTP device to test it myself.
Re: [gentoo-user] android and mtp
On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 1:56 PM, luis jure l...@internet.com.uy wrote: hello list, i would appreciate suggestions and recommendations to manage a device (samsung galaxy note II) with android ICS. as you may know (i didn't until today...), ICS doesn't connect the device as a good old USB mass storage device, but rather using this MTP thing. i googled a bit and found that i already had libmtp installed. mtp-detect sees the device alright. any ideas what would be the best and easiest way to mount/umount the device for file transfer, syncing, etc? i'm using xfce, and it would be ideal if i could find a way that integrates well with the desktop. best, lj Same issue here with the new Kindle Fire HD. I managed to mount it successfully using jmtpfs from the poly-c overlay. This link was helpful to me http://research.jacquette.com/jmtpfs-exchanging-files-between-android-devices-and-linux/ HTH, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] android and mtp
On Fri, 21 Dec 2012 16:19:10 -0600, Paul Hartman wrote: as you may know (i didn't until today...), ICS doesn't connect the device as a good old USB mass storage device, but rather using this MTP thing. No, and there's a good reason for that. In order to mount the device as a USB storage device on the computer, it has to be unmounted on the phone. You can't have a single filesystem directly mounted by two operating systems at once. I think you can use mtpfs and then browse it like any other disk. I don't have any MTP device to test it myself. I found that to be rather fragile, jmtpfs works far better for me, with a Galaxy S3 and a Nexus 7. -- Neil Bothwick Top Oxymorons Number 37: Sanitary landfill signature.asc Description: PGP signature
