If the majority
of users are adamant about obtaining normal Caps Lock behavior via some
other gesture on the same key (e.g., a quick double press of Caps Lock),
well, we'll need to think about it. If users say that kind of thing is
a nice to have, however, I'd prefer we note it as a
that basically mean this whole discussion of orca on laptops is
moot, or at least addressed fully via orca.settings.orcaModifierKeys
(possibly with a UI for changing it easily) ?
Bill
I shouldn't think so. This discussion has already pointed out that
CapsLock
Hi Will.
Just tried the patch. It works nicely.
The only issue here is cleanliness and restoring the xmodmap to what it
was before Orca changed it. I'm not sure this is a big concern. The
reason is that I assume Orca is going to be something that the user runs
all the time to access their
somewhat - we're using the term
modifier key differently. Maybe I'll contact you offlist for info on
the internal details.
So does that basically mean this whole discussion of orca on laptops is
moot, or at least addressed fully via orca.settings.orcaModifierKeys
(possibly with a UI
To play devil's advocate: What about instances where folks are sharing
the same computer but not using separate usernames, and not all of them
are blind? Okay so it's a stretch ;-)
Good question, and not really a stretch when you think about public use
information systems. The Caps
So...is the proposed solution acceptable? Another way to look at it
would be this: assume I was smart enough to remember the xmodmap
solution when Mike was beating on me for Caps Lock last year. Caps Lock
would work as described above and Caps Lock would be the default Orca
modifier. Would
Willie Walker wrote:
If this constraint is acceptable, I think we're done. If the majority
of users are adamant about obtaining normal Caps Lock behavior via some
other gesture on the same key (e.g., a quick double press of Caps Lock),
well, we'll need to think about it. If users say that
Hi Will.
Damn computer! I'm looking for the enormously large collection of
books on 'GNOME', not 'gnome'. Why doesn't this Caps Lock key work? My
life is ruined. Down with Orca users! Kill them all! They must die!
Take their babies, too!.
And folks say libraries -- and Hollis -- are
Hi Will.
If this constraint is acceptable, I think we're done.
I think you're done. The functionality provided via the most recent
patch (i.e. the one in which Caps Lock gets restored when you quit Orca)
works very nicely. Thanks for doing it!
Regarding an alternative way to have full
Noted. For those users that absolutely positively need to set the lock
modifier, they can set the Orca modifier to something else. This isn't
perfect, but it is workable.
If there are no reasonable objections by the end of the day, I'm going
to consider discussion of this issue closed and the
differently. Maybe I'll contact you offlist for info
on
the internal details.
So does that basically mean this whole discussion of orca on laptops
is
moot, or at least addressed fully via orca.settings.orcaModifierKeys
(possibly with a UI for changing it easily) ?
Bill
Bill Haneman, le Wed 08 Nov 2006 13:24:53 +, a écrit :
Luke Yelavich wrote:
...
In Windows, Jaws manages to prevent the capslock key from being latched
or unlatched. To latch/unlatch, you press shift + Capslock, or press
capslock twice quickly.
I see. I expect that would be a
On my french keyboard, Mod2 is Numlock, Mod4 is Windows and Mod5 is AltGr.
I didn't manage to hit Mod3.
Samuel
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Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 9:27 PM
To: Janina Sajka
Cc: Bill Haneman; Willie Walker; 'Ubuntu Accessibility Mailing List';
'Gnome Accessibility List'; 'Orca screen reader developers'
Subject: Re: Orca on laptops.
Hi Janina,
Of course, the fact that this is established practice and widely
On 7 Nov 2006, at 21:12, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
This idea I like. On my laptops, AltGr doesn't seem to be doing
anything useful (like allowing me to get into menus). And every
laptop
I've seen has had this key.
Macintosh laptops don't have it (at least, my Powerbook doesn't).
Cheeri,
lazzaro wrote:
I use the Capslock key as a modifyer instead of insert all the time with
Jaws on laptops, and I like how it's implemented there. It appears to
work with the capslock key latched or unlatched.
CapsLock always latches, in every keyboard I've encountered (i.e. that's
why it's
On Wed, Nov 08, 2006 at 10:38:22PM EST, Bill Haneman wrote:
lazzaro wrote:
I use the Capslock key as a modifyer instead of insert all the time with
Jaws on laptops, and I like how it's implemented there. It appears to
work with the capslock key latched or unlatched.
CapsLock always
Luke Yelavich wrote:
...
In Windows, Jaws manages to prevent the capslock key from being latched
or unlatched. To latch/unlatch, you press shift + Capslock, or press
capslock twice quickly.
I see. I expect that would be a hazardous and/or fragile thing to
attempt on X, especially if,
On 11/8/06, Bill Haneman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Luke Yelavich wrote:
...
In Windows, Jaws manages to prevent the capslock key from being latched
or unlatched. To latch/unlatch, you press shift + Capslock, or press
capslock twice quickly.
I see. I expect that would be a hazardous
Bill Haneman:
I see. I expect that would be a hazardous and/or fragile thing to
attempt on X, especially if, as I believe, the latching behavior is a
hardware feature on some (most?) keyboards.
Hello, I'm using CapsLock as another Ctrl key. It is configurable
through Gnome keyboard
Hi Benjamin:
I see, you're talking about a different thing from what I was referring
to - I thought you were talking about the CapsLock behavior settings,
which are all latching.
What you have done, as far as I can tell, is re-map the CapsLock key to
be a different key altogether - so it's
Bill Haneman wrote:
Lukas Loehrer wrote:...
I would therefore say that CapsLock is the more suitable choice of the
two as a default orca modifier key on laptops.
I don't wish to belabor this point, but I find that terminology
confusing. If we remap the CapsLock key, then we
Rich Burridge wrote:
Orca doesn't care what kind of key it uses for its modifier key. It
can be anything.
Yes, but I think there is some agreement that finding a reasonable
default modifier is a worthwhile goal.
Bill
If anybody wants to try using CapsLock to see if they are more
Hi Bill.
I think we need to resolve this second issue (i.e. of what _modifier_ we
use for orca) before dealing with the first issue (i.e. what physical
key we wish to assign that modifier to).
At the risk of asking a silly question Why can't we just do what
Rich suggested yesterday,
Thanks Will. That clarifies things somewhat - we're using the term
modifier key differently. Maybe I'll contact you offlist for info on
the internal details.
So does that basically mean this whole discussion of orca on laptops is
moot, or at least addressed fully via
On Wed, 2006-11-08 at 16:43 +, Bill Haneman wrote:
Rich Burridge wrote:
Orca doesn't care what kind of key it uses for its modifier key. It
can be anything.
Yes, but I think there is some agreement that finding a reasonable
default modifier is a worthwhile goal.
I think the main
So does that basically mean this whole discussion of orca on laptops is
moot, or at least addressed fully via orca.settings.orcaModifierKeys
(possibly with a UI for changing it easily) ?
I don't think the whole discussion is moot. The discussion up to this
point has been around
Cleverson wrote:
Hi all
My suggestion is that we don't have a single laptop layout, but perhaps
three to five layouts matching several kinds of keyboards.
I think we should try to avoid this if we can. A single keyboard layout
for laptops will be easier to maintain and support (such as
Bill Haneman writes:
Thanks Will. That clarifies things somewhat - we're using the term
modifier key differently. Maybe I'll contact you offlist for info on
the internal details.
So does that basically mean this whole discussion of orca on laptops is
moot, or at least addressed fully
Rich Burridge wrote:
I can quantify how significant that is to a blind user.
That should have course been:
I can't quantify how significant that is to a blind user.
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Subject: Re: Orca on laptops.
Hi Janina,
Of course, the fact that this is established practice and widely
expected by users both on Windows and Linux should really end this
discussion, from the user point of view. Choosing anything else will
certainly cause continuing
Hi all
The topic of Orca on laptops has popped up many times in the past on the
lists. So the Ubuntu Accessibility team, and the Orca team decided
to get together and talk about it. We have several ideas as to what a
good laptop keymap could be, but we would like to hear from you, the
users
Luke Yelavich, le Wed 08 Nov 2006 06:21:58 +1100, a écrit :
So what modifier key would you like to use for Orca?
Couldn't this be just configurable?
Samuel
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So what modifier key would you like to use for Orca?
Couldn't this be just configurable?
I agree that this would make the most sense. As Luke pointed out, there
are so many different layouts (not to mention so many different users).
Is there a reason we need to select THE Orca modifier key?
Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
So what modifier key would you like to use for Orca?
Couldn't this be just configurable?
I agree that this would make the most sense. As Luke pointed out, there
are so many different layouts (not to mention so many different users).
Is there a reason we
Samuel Thibault wrote:
Bill Haneman, le Tue 07 Nov 2006 20:15:53 +, a écrit :
AltGr is one that often gets forgotten; what about that? It does appear
to be a modifier key on all the systems I am aware of.
Yes, but it's widely used for typing ~, #, {, [, |, `, \, ^, @, ], },
Bill Haneman, le Tue 07 Nov 2006 20:35:47 +, a écrit :
Yes, but it's widely used for typing ~, #, {, [, |, `, \, ^, @, ], },
€, «, », œ, æ, ß, ...
Agreed, but doesn't orca use arrow keys for many of its functions?
I use altgr-arrows for producing ←→↑↓ :)
I know there are lots of keys
On Wed, Nov 08, 2006 at 07:35:47AM EST, Bill Haneman wrote:
Agreed, but doesn't orca use arrow keys for many of its functions?
I know there are lots of keys which AltGr doesn't appear to do
anything with.
I have never heard of AltGr. What key is this?
--
Luke Yelavich
GPG key: 0xD06320CE
Luke Yelavich, le Wed 08 Nov 2006 07:43:42 +1100, a écrit :
On Wed, Nov 08, 2006 at 07:35:47AM EST, Bill Haneman wrote:
Agreed, but doesn't orca use arrow keys for many of its functions?
I know there are lots of keys which AltGr doesn't appear to do
anything with.
I have never heard of
On Wed, Nov 08, 2006 at 07:48:57AM EST, Samuel Thibault wrote:
It is also known as right alt: that's the key just on the right side
of the space bar. It is used for expending what can be typed on a
keyboard. Mandatory for many (all?) non-english languages.
Well I don't think that will be an
Luke Yelavich wrote:
...
Well I don't think that will be an option, as some laptops don't have a
right Alt, as far as I am aware, or I could be getting that mixed up
with the right control key.
I think you might have that confused, yes. Any non-English laptop would
need AltGr for the
Hi Bill.
I guess one possible way to get out of the conflict situation would be
to exclude ShiftLock from the orca modifier mask;
But Might not ShiftLock be an ideal modifier key for some?
I also think it would be preferable to have it as a modifier rather than
as the key that makes
There's nothing wrong with having sensible defaults, but I struggle to
believe there is a set of magic bindings which work on all hardware.
How about running a configuration program at Orca's first startup that
would take information about the user's keyboard as input (the Ubuntu
installer already
Samuel Thibault wrote:
There's nothing wrong with having sensible defaults, but I struggle to
believe there is a set of magic bindings which work on all hardware.
Even on Apple Mac hardware ? The keyboard is really far from PC
keyboards...
Perhaps I wasn't clear. I'm saying that there
Hi Bill.
I am not sure I understand your point - or perhaps you are
misunderstanding me.
I suspect it's the former, but we'll see. :-)
What I am suggesting is that we specifically _avoid_ using ShiftLock
And what I am suggesting is that we specifically _allow_ using it (if
possible).
Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
Hi Bill.
I am not sure I understand your point - or perhaps you are
misunderstanding me.
I suspect it's the former, but we'll see. :-)
What I am suggesting is that we specifically _avoid_ using ShiftLock
And what I am suggesting is that we
Hi All:
Just an FYI that there is a related RFE to allow customization of key
and braille bindings for Orca:
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=354970
Will
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Why can't a selection of keyboard types be in the main prefs dialogue of
orca? Have it part of the text setup.
On Tue, 2006-11-07 at 21:48 +, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote:
Samuel Thibault wrote:
There's nothing wrong with having sensible defaults, but I struggle to
believe there is a
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