On Sat, 07 Oct 2006 09:23:19 +0200
David Kastrup [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The following section Introduction tries to cast some
light on the actual usage of the word, and in the rest of the article,
operating system is sometimes used to clearly indicate just kernel
and kernel threads,
On Sat, 07 Oct 2006 13:02:05 +0200
David Kastrup [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Uh, what? The quoted section tries defining the term UNIX, not the
term operating system.
Notice the qualification time-sharing operating system kernel. If
operating system would have been a synonym for kernel,
On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 19:10:53 +0200 (CEST)
Alfred M. Szmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am not saying it was an established definition. I am saying that
is was used pretty much synonymously.
And I'm saying that it was not used synonymously in most circles,
maybe in your circles. And
Stefaan A Eeckels [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 19:10:53 +0200 (CEST)
Alfred M. Szmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am not saying it was an established definition. I am saying that
is was used pretty much synonymously.
And I'm saying that it was not used synonymously
On Sat, 07 Oct 2006 15:31:53 +0200
David Kastrup [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Do you have any evidence of the term kernel being used before, or
actually even outside of UNIX? I think it likely that UNIX was the
main culprit for the informal erosion of operating system which has
not really
Stefaan A Eeckels [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Sat, 07 Oct 2006 15:31:53 +0200
David Kastrup [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Do you have any evidence of the term kernel being used before, or
actually even outside of UNIX?
I quoted this section from Ralston's Encyclopedia of Computer
Science and
Stefaan A Eeckels [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Sat, 07 Oct 2006 17:23:50 +0200
David Kastrup [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, I am the author of a CP/M 2.2 BIOS that has seen some
moderate distribution, and I don't remember ever coming across
either the term kernel or nucleus in connection
Anyway, to get back at the original mess: while it appears that
operating system has in the course of its history being
expanded from a meaning implying just kernel and system
threads/services, it is pretty obvious that The GNU operating
system provides us with a different quality
Even before the 80s, kernel was a widely used and fairly
well-defined term. From Ralston's Encyclopedia of Computer Science
and Engineering, 2nd Edition (Copyright © 1983 Van Nostrand
Reinhold):
Most of the books I have speak about system monitor (mostly stuff
from the 1960's), and
December 8th 1997... The Great Scientist and (only) three freedoms. LOL.
http://beust.com/stallman.html
---
Richard Stallman (RMS) made a small (two hours) presentation here, in
Sophia Antipolis, on December 8th 1997, on the theme The GNU Project.
Here is a brief summary of what he said,
Alexander Terekhov [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
December 8th 1997... The Great Scientist and (only) three freedoms. LOL.
http://beust.com/stallman.html
I'll add a few comments to the comments made here.
When he started at the MIT, the Hacker mentality was at its
apex. The information had to
David Kastrup wrote:
[...]
From that day on, he set off on a quest to ban proprietary software
and encourage the free sharing of source code by all means.
That was what started his unrest. It did not set him off immediately,
and by all means is certainly exaggerated. He did not, for
David Kastrup wrote:
[...]
From that day on, he set off on a quest to ban proprietary software
and encourage the free sharing of source code by all means.
That was what started his unrest. It did not set him off immediately,
and by all means is certainly exaggerated. He did not, for
In 1985, the FSF started to ship tapes and began to receive
donations. The GNU OS (to be known later as HURD) was progressing
and most and more gaps were filled in its architecture.
The GNU operating system was never known as the Hurd. The Hurd was a
specific part of the GNU system,
Alfred M. Szmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
In 1985, the FSF started to ship tapes and began to receive
donations. The GNU OS (to be known later as HURD) was
progressing and most and more gaps were filled in its
architecture.
The GNU operating system was never known as the Hurd.
Alfred M. Szmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
In 1985, the FSF started to ship tapes and began to receive
donations. The GNU OS (to be known later as HURD) was
progressing and most and more gaps were filled in its
architecture.
The GNU operating system was
Alfred M. Szmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
At the time frame in question, operating system and kernel was
used pretty much synonymously in computer science circles.
Again, incorrect. Maybe you are to young to remeber these things,
Maybe you are too conceited to make a valid argument.
I am not saying it was an established definition. I am saying that
is was used pretty much synonymously.
And I'm saying that it was not used synonymously in most circles,
maybe in your circles. And in those days the term kernel wasn't
even that used much, the operating system included
David Kastrup writes:
So you admit that there has been no _fixed_ definition. Maybe you are
too old to remember those things, but in those times, operating system
and kernel was used pretty much synonymously in computer science
circles.
This is true, but in computer marketing circles the
So you admit that there has been no _fixed_ definition. Maybe
you are too old to remember those things, but in those times,
operating system and kernel was used pretty much synonymously
in computer science circles.
This is true, but in computer marketing circles the definition
Alfred M. Szmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
So you admit that there has been no _fixed_ definition. Maybe
you are too old to remember those things, but in those times,
operating system and kernel was used pretty much synonymously
in computer science circles.
This is true,
Alfred M. Szmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
So you admit that there has been no _fixed_ definition.
Maybe you are too old to remember those things, but in those
times, operating system and kernel was used pretty much
synonymously in computer science circles.
Well, the ITS manuals not once refer to something as operating
system which would include any applications.
Nor is ITS refered to as a kernel, it is refered to as a system, a
system to operate a KL10. A operating system. Even Richard, who
hacked on the damn thing, calls it a operating
David Kastrup writes:
...we are talking about the language use at the start of the eighties,
not nowadays.
From _UNIX Programmer's Manual_ Copyright 1983, 1979 Bell Telephone
Laboratories, Inc.:
PREFACE
This new form of the Seventh Edition manual attests to the gratifying
poularity of the
From groklaw comments to Eben Moglen: A Renewed Invitation to Kernel
Developers...
I realize that Linus was never interested in the four freedoms the
GPL was supposed to ensure.
The earliest reference to the four freedoms that I can find is around
1999 (feel free to prove me wrong,
Qui, 2006-10-05 às 09:43 +0200, Alexander Terekhov escreveu:
From groklaw comments to Eben Moglen: A Renewed Invitation to Kernel
Developers...
I realize that Linus was never interested in the four freedoms the
GPL was supposed to ensure.
The earliest reference to the four
Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote:
[...]
http://groups.google.com/group/net.micro/browse_thread/thread/9e8efc7fd71be471
The above link is to a post from 1985! Which reprints RMS's article on
That's the GNU Manifesto (original, without footnotes), retard mini-RMS.
GNU, which stands for Gnu's Not
People are ofcourse allowed to correct themself, and clarify the terms
they use to be clearer. Perfectly clear ideas don't pop up like
mushrooms, not even for Richard.
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In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Rui Miguel Silva Seabra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The web didn't really start with http, there were many other things,
like newsgroups:
There were many other things, but they weren't the web. In the case
of newsgroups, they weren't even the internet.
-- Richard
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Alfred M. Szmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There were many other things, but they weren't the web. In the
case of newsgroups, they weren't even the internet.
Depends very much on what you define as the internet.
I mean the large network running internet
More perspectives...
http://www.oreilly.com/openbook/freedom/ch09.html
(The GNU General Public License)
---
Although helpful in codifying the social contract of the Emacs Commune,
the Emacs 15 license remained too informal for the purposes of the
GNU Project, Stallman says. Soon after
There were many other things, but they weren't the web. In the
case of newsgroups, they weren't even the internet.
Depends very much on what you define as the internet.
I mean the large network running internet protocols.
And that depends on what you define as an internet
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Alfred M. Szmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There were many other things, but they weren't the web. In the
case of newsgroups, they weren't even the internet.
Depends very much on what you define as the internet.
I mean the large network running
Qui, 2006-10-05 às 11:06 +0200, Alexander Terekhov escreveu:
Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote:
[...]
http://groups.google.com/group/net.micro/browse_thread/thread/9e8efc7fd71be471
The above link is to a post from 1985! Which reprints RMS's article on
That's the GNU Manifesto (original,
Rui writes:
Erms... the Internet is now based on IP, as it may be very well based on
something else in the future, and certainly didn't start as IP...
It most certainly did.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA
___
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Rui Miguel Silva Seabra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There were many other things, but they weren't the web. In the case
of newsgroups, they weren't even the internet.
Erms... the Internet is now based on IP, as it may be very well based on
something else in the
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], I wrote:
Well, it seems a little strange to say it was the internet when it
wasn't called the internet and was based on internet protocols,
Obviously I meant wasn't based on internet protocols.
-- Richard
___
Newsgroups were originally distributed by UUCP, and that certainly
wasn't the internet.
Newsgroups (and mail) where distributed using various means. UUCP was
just one of them.
Can we please stop this history revisionism?
___
gnu-misc-discuss
Qui, 2006-10-05 às 10:45 -0500, John Hasler escreveu:
Rui writes:
Erms... the Internet is now based on IP, as it may be very well based on
something else in the future, and certainly didn't start as IP...
It most certainly did.
If I had said ONLY that you could be right. Why distort what
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Alfred M. Szmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Newsgroups were originally distributed by UUCP, and that certainly
wasn't the internet.
Newsgroups (and mail) where distributed using various means. UUCP was
just one of them.
Can we please stop this history
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