From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jose wrote:
In my clinical experience (of some years now) there have been some
unexpected cures/recoveries. They have been amazing and wonderful
occurrences inexplicable by our current knowledge. Until I find
scientific explanations for the cures, I
From: Roland Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For a scientist Santosh, you have written a particularly unscientific
reply.
In what was a Faith thread, all I said was that faith was worn as a
badge of learning in your case and as a social statement badge by
Kevin. I then went on to explain what faith
--- On Mon, 8/25/08, Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In conclusion, it may be said that Science, when called upon to testify,
has given a certain and thorough response as regards the authenticity of the
Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano.
Any objective lay person who has watched a
From: Vidyadhar Gadgil [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Why all this heated debate about 'miracles'? What are they worth
anyway?
***People are running for healings and miracles precisely because they touch
their daily lives. They are in need, they are worth
Using a selectively mutilated quote of what I (jc) had written i.e.
[Check a: If s/he has the requisite knowledge of the field of
medicine in which the miracle is said to have occurred.
b: S/he has personally reviewed all the original details of the case.
c: S/he is able to say with confidence
From: Cip Fernandes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Rev. Fr. Ivo C. da Souza,
How can you convince a colour blind person that colours exist?
***I do agree with you. I had a lot of discussions with people of other
faiths ( or no-faith) and denominations.
Sometimes it is quite enriching, when there is
Roland said:
I then went on to explain what faith meant to those of us who
have it.
Reply:
What are you ON about? We all have faith in something or another.
I do have 'faith' that Obama will become the President of USA.
But I do not have faith that I will go to hell of burning fire after
From: J. Colaco jc [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Using a selectively mutilated quote of what I (jc) had written i.e.
***Sorry, Dr.Jose Colaço, for keeping your quote shortened. This happened
by mistake (not selectively mutilated)--the first words were deleted by
mistake and I added check if:. Nothing
J. Colaco said:
Dear all,As a practising Roman Catholic and a believer in the occurence of
un-explained cures /recovery from what was previously believed to be
incurable ilnesses (i.e. miracles),
-
Reply:
So, you have not heard of unexplained miracles happening to people of other
(a) In response to this from me:
As a practising Roman Catholic and a believer in the occurence of
un-explained cures /recovery from what was previously believed to be
incurable ilnesses (i.e. miracles),
(b) edward desilva responded thus:
So, you have not heard of unexplained miracles happening
For a scientist Santosh, you have written a particularly unscientific reply.
Unless you are a Saldanha apologist, there was no need to drag Lisette
Saldanha, the Goan Convention, and settling of scores into this thread
at all.
In what was a Faith thread, all I said was that faith was worn as a
--- On Mon, 8/25/08, Roland Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Unless you are a Saldanha apologist, there was no need to
drag Lisette Saldanha, the Goan Convention, and settling of scores into
this thread at all.
I would like to remind Roland that it is he who injected the Saldanhas in this
--- On Sun, 8/24/08, edward desilva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Does Santosh aspect the Devil to work miracles? Again as the saying goes: if
your god is good my devil is not bad, is that what you are saying Santosh?
I am saying that I do not care why people believe in miracles. They are free to
From: raju gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED]
There seems to be quite a hue and cry about the miracles.
***Precisely because they happen, but are being denied by some scientists.
SEEK N YOU SHALL FIND...
I am seeing that the revelations by our lady of fatima, are happening, may
be I sought - so why
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
I think that Fr.Ivo and others would do well to heed the following
excerpts from
the authoritative 1998 decree of the concerned Archbishop regarding the
fraudulent miracles of this mystic called Julia Kim:
***I have quoted Roman Danylak, titular bishop
From: J. Colaco jc [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I do understand that there is a scientific committee and a process
for these miracles - BUT if any process is going to be accepted, the
process has to be open and transparent. I suggest that IF we really
want to investigate ANY matter - we should invite
From: ralph rau [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Last time I heard Goanet was a forum for discussing social issues of
concern to Goans and not debating matters of faith.
***Which are social issues of concern to Goans? We are hearing a lot about
them. We can hear them being debated in the Legislative Assembly
.
--- On Sat, 8/23/08, Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Lourdes Miracles
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Saturday, August 23, 2008, 8:32 PM
From: Albert Desouza
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
***I am reproducing the witness of those who
edward desilva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Same way Santosh is hiting a brick wall, no amount of evidence will convince
these brainwashed people (from birth) that 'God' does not exist.
My responses in this thread has nothing to do with convincing people about the
existence or non-existence of
Last time I heard Goanet was a forum for discussing social issues of concern to
Goans and not debating matters of faith.
Its rightly said - to those who believe (the man of the cloth, Fr. Ivo) no
proof is necessary. To those who cannot, will not, or do not (the doubting
Thomases - all of them)
Well said Ralph.
To the Helekars and the Saldanhas of this world, faithlessness either
becomes a badge of learning (Helekar) or a badge of social statement
(Saldanha).
But to us ordinary folks, even those without the compulsion of fear of
the unknown or the fear of deprivation, physical or
Santosh said:
My responses in this thread has nothing to do with convincing people about the
existence or non-existence of God. I only want to present accurate information
about observations in the natural world.
Reply:
It has every thing to do with the existence of God.
No God, no
Ralph Rau said:
Fr. Ivo should stop trying to defend his faith. It merely attracts the ire of
the detractors.Footnote: Faith can also be seen working its miracles in
Tirupati and elsewhere
Reply:
Although I agree with you. I do not agree with your footnote.
Darwin asked: Why does God
--- On Sun, 8/24/08, ralph rau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Last time I heard Goanet was a forum for discussing social issues of concern
to Goans and not debating matters of faith.
Matters of faith and reason are social issues that are of concern to many
Goans, as they are to the rest of the
(1) edward desilva wrote: [Same way Santosh is hiting a brick wall, no
amount of evidence will convince these brainwashed people (from birth)
that 'God' does not exist.]
(2) Santosh Helekar wrote: [My responses in this thread has nothing to
do with convincing people about the existence or
--- On Sun, 8/24/08, Roland Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
To the Helekars and the Saldanhas of this world, faithlessness either
becomes a badge of learning (Helekar) or a badge of social statement
(Saldanha).
I don't know why Saldanhas are brought up in this thread when no Saldanha has
From: Albert Desouza [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***I am reproducing the witness of those who have seen the white host being
transformed into flesh and blood, thus confirming the words of Jesus of
his real presence in the Eucharist through transubstantiation. I hope that
the readers will see that there
--- On Fri, 8/22/08, Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
***I am reproducing the witness of those who have seen
the white host being transformed into flesh and blood,
thus confirming the words of Jesus of his real presence in the Eucharist
through transubstantiation. I hope that the
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- On Fri, 8/15/08, Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
**In the case of Eucharistic miracle of Lanciano, how can
you perform this scientific procedure?
So after all this talk about using a scientific procedure to certify
miracles, we have a
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
...more importantly, modern science teaches us that it is foolish to
draw premature conclusions from lack of knowledge about something at any
given time.
***Right. Science has its limitations. These conclusions do not belong to
its competence.
Science
--- On Fri, 8/15/08, Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
***Studies on the blood of Christ have revealed that Jesus
had only 23 chromosomes plus one for a male or the additional Y determinant
making a total of 24.
It would be interesting to find out what it would take to strain
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I think as of January 21, 2008 Julia Kim and her followers have been
excommunicated by the Archbishop because of the possibility of fraud, and
the embarrassment these unruly miraculous events that she is staging,
might be causing the Church.
***Yes, you
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
...any scientific procedure requires that properly blinded and
objective researchers obtain quantitative data about the probability of
occurrence of the phenomenon under observation in the special condition
under study, and then compare this probability
--- On Fri, 8/15/08, Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
**In the case of Eucharistic miracle of Lanciano, how can
you perform this scientific procedure?
So after all this talk about using a scientific procedure to certify miracles,
we have a concession that such a procedure cannot
Kabira khada bazaar mein, maange sabki khair,
Na kehu se dosti, na kehu se bair -- Kabir
Miracles are to be ignored for betterment of our life. I totally agree with
V.Gadgil.
I am also surprised and happy ...not to read
Question everthing
at the end.
Shrikant Vinayak Barve
From: Mervyn Lobo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I have not being opening any of the posts on this subject simply
because it is beyond common sense that it is in Lourdes
that God concentrates on answering requests and providing miracles.
If God cannot find you in your living room, s/he is not going to find
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- On Sun, 8/10/08, Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
His study confirmed that the flesh and blood were of human
origin. The flesh was unequivocally cardiac tissue, and the blood was of
type AB.
The type AB blood means that the owner of the
From: edward desilva [EMAIL PROTECTED]
...similar miracles were performed by a portuguese lady.
***Thank you, Edward, for the news and precaution. If this is the case, the
alleged miracle will be revealed.
My contention is that there are Eucharistic miracles. I happened to give
this example,
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The level of gullibility displayed in the quoted post indicates that the
people involved in propagating such miracles do not want their claims to
be subjected to real scientific tests, and face the prospect of
disillusionment.
***This is wrong. The Church
Hi,
I do not know who this JK is.
Is she Portuguese?
WELL, similar miracles were performed by a portuguese lady.
Example: The person who does painless surgery in Philippines without cutting
the skin has been declared as fake, all the blood and gore that he produces are
hidden in a condome, which
--- On Sun, 8/10/08, Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
His study confirmed that the flesh and blood were of human
origin. The flesh was unequivocally cardiac tissue, and the blood was of
type AB.
The type AB blood means that the owner of the blood was born out of the normal
btw, what would the bloodtype of the offspring be, if a virgin with
bloodgroup AB was with a child?
Just curious...
Orlando
- Original Message -
--- On Sun, 8/10/08, Fr. Ivo C da Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
His study confirmed that the flesh and blood were of human
origin. The
There is a saying :A wise man knows what he says, a fool says what he knows. We
as medical doctors mostly say what we know from books, literature, journals,
and broadcasted news. But do we know what we say? We say if you smoke, it
causes cancer, but do we know why Curchill, FidelCastro, and
I was taught that wisdom lies in not saying or making claims about what one
does not know. For example, contrary to what the post quoted below says,
physicists and cosmologists know that there indeed is chaos in the universe.
But more importantly, modern science teaches us that it is foolish
From: Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão [EMAIL PROTECTED]
There is a saying :A wise man knows what he says, a fool says what he
knows. We as medical doctors mostly say what we know from books,
literature, journals, and broadcasted news. But do we know what we say?
We say if you smoke, it causes
Hi,
Byron the English poet once asked.
I can see crutches, and wheelchairs, on display hanging all around, but I do
not see any artificial limbs. Why is that?
ED.
--
Fr.Ivo wrote: Miracles are assessed by scientific procedures as being
extraordinary events,
beyond the reach of the physical
Fr.Ivo wrote: Miracles are assessed by scientific procedures as being
extraordinary events,
beyond the reach of the physical laws.
I am giving more information about Lourdes Miracles.
Regards.
Fr.Ivo
Cures and Miracles
Near the busy medical bureau is a fascinating photographic display of
From: Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
As you can see, the procedure described below is clearly not a scientific
procedure of any kind.
***After all kinds of tests and monitoring, after all research by physicians
of different nations and faiths (or no-faith), after long follow-up, it is
Many years ago I had written why the bureaucratic procedure of certification of
a miracle described in the post below is not a scientific procedure at all. A
modified and updated version of my write up is give below:
Simply put, any scientific procedure requires that properly blinded and
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