Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
Dr. Helekar, Referring to your e-mail (sic) about the dictionary meanings of the right words; 'apology' / 'regret' means, whether written or spoken expressions of one's regret, remorse etc... I am fully aware of these connotations, so there is no need for you to teach you understand. About Christian Obama / Hindu Obama I will stick with it, I hope you are not afraid of the Americans, maybe, who knows?. As per my knowledge of Bombay, I am a Mumbaikar for your information, though I have a Goan parentage. But I was born, bred and educated in Bombay and I know its past and oresent history, their culture, their traditions, their soul, their commandments and most of all their Conscience. Yes, one thing I will agree with you about my printers devil in the mails, but they were due to rushing to work in a hurry and not prove reading them and not due to ignorancy or the lack of English knowledge. I suggest you please start 'English Coaching Classes in Goa' which is very paramount there as the under privileged ones could get some benefits out of it and which could be more rewading for you then from Public a Domain, understand. Goodbye! Sam On 8/9/10, Santosh Helekar chimbel...@yahoo.com wrote: Mr. Furtado, Please read this slowly, noting all the correct spellings of words. Please also note that I, Santosh Helekar is posting this on a public Goan cyberforum called Goanet. Here are the meanings of the words apology and regret. apology - a written or spoken expression of one's regret, remorse, or sorrow for having insulted, failed, injured, or wronged another. ..an inferior specimen or substitute; makeshift... Please click on this link with a computer mouse to read the above dictionary definitions - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/apology regret - a sense of loss, disappointment, dissatisfaction, etc... .a feeling of sorrow or remorse for a fault, act, loss, disappointment, etc. Please see - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/regret Here is the meaning of the word retract. Please note the correct spelling. retract - ...to withdraw (a statement, opinion, etc.) as inaccurate or unjustified, esp. formally or explicitly; take back. to draw back or in Please see - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/retract Now, I did not want your apology because you refuse to believe that you are wrong, and you do not have any regret for the wrong that you have done. So I request you to retract from this thread and move on to Hindu Obama against the good Christians. Please tell me what you know in Bombay about how the first commandment to examine your conscience and make sure everything there is accounted for, ensures that the Christian fundamentalists cannot ban conversions and vandalize Hindu temples in the U. S. of A. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 8/8/10, Sam Furtado sfrainbo...@gmail.com wrote: Dr. Helekar, First and foremost tell me please, in English word, what do youo mean by 'Apology and Regret', give me he definition? Secondly, who in his or her right sense would apologize for nothing or be sorry for having done nothing wrong. So why the question of you repeating that I retranct my words of having disreputed you in public domain when an apology to that should have an convincing effect on you and that should have sufficed you.. Do you feel that the specific kind of words have a special kind of forbearance on you and an apology would be less respectful and bring disrepute to your name and that retriving statement would have glorified you and cruxified me. I feel you have strange ways of getting things done, when at one stroke two birds can be felled you want two stones to do the job So, Stop this vicious cycle that would lead you nowhere and unnecessarity get an entanglement with no loose strings left. Sam --- On Sun, 8/8/10, Sam Furtado sfrainbo...@gmail.com wrote: Reading the e-mail of Mr. Mark D’ Souza, in Goanet today, in which he states ‘In America there are no anti-conversion laws and there are no Christian fundamentalist who will go around bashing Hindu Missionaries or vandalizing Hindu temples and here in India there are anti-conversion laws and the Hindu fundamentalist go around bashing Christian Missionaries and vandalizing churches’ etc is absolutely right and true what he has stated and I fully agree with him.. The cause for this could be that the Hindu Fanatics or the few rogue elements who have infiltrated the Christian religious order are afraid that in the event the Indian populace crosses to the other side of the fence and embrace Christianity, then they would loose their true identity, which presently allows them to do as the wish and pleased without having to answer to God or man, whereas in U. S. of A. first commandment examine your conscience and everything there is accounted for. Also point of Mark and which
Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
Mr. Furtado, Please read this slowly, noting all the correct spellings of words. Please also note that I, Santosh Helekar is posting this on a public Goan cyberforum called Goanet. Here are the meanings of the words apology and regret. apology - a written or spoken expression of one's regret, remorse, or sorrow for having insulted, failed, injured, or wronged another. ..an inferior specimen or substitute; makeshift... Please click on this link with a computer mouse to read the above dictionary definitions - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/apology regret - a sense of loss, disappointment, dissatisfaction, etc... .a feeling of sorrow or remorse for a fault, act, loss, disappointment, etc. Please see - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/regret Here is the meaning of the word retract. Please note the correct spelling. retract - ...to withdraw (a statement, opinion, etc.) as inaccurate or unjustified, esp. formally or explicitly; take back. to draw back or in Please see - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/retract Now, I did not want your apology because you refuse to believe that you are wrong, and you do not have any regret for the wrong that you have done. So I request you to retract from this thread and move on to Hindu Obama against the good Christians. Please tell me what you know in Bombay about how the first commandment to examine your conscience and make sure everything there is accounted for, ensures that the Christian fundamentalists cannot ban conversions and vandalize Hindu temples in the U. S. of A. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 8/8/10, Sam Furtado sfrainbo...@gmail.com wrote: Dr. Helekar, First and foremost tell me please, in English word, what do youo mean by 'Apology and Regret', give me he definition? Secondly, who in his or her right sense would apologize for nothing or be sorry for having done nothing wrong. So why the question of you repeating that I retranct my words of having disreputed you in public domain when an apology to that should have an convincing effect on you and that should have sufficed you.. Do you feel that the specific kind of words have a special kind of forbearance on you and an apology would be less respectful and bring disrepute to your name and that retriving statement would have glorified you and cruxified me. I feel you have strange ways of getting things done, when at one stroke two birds can be felled you want two stones to do the job So, Stop this vicious cycle that would lead you nowhere and unnecessarity get an entanglement with no loose strings left. Sam --- On Sun, 8/8/10, Sam Furtado sfrainbo...@gmail.com wrote: Reading the e-mail of Mr. Mark D’ Souza, in Goanet today, in which he states ‘In America there are no anti-conversion laws and there are no Christian fundamentalist who will go around bashing Hindu Missionaries or vandalizing Hindu temples and here in India there are anti-conversion laws and the Hindu fundamentalist go around bashing Christian Missionaries and vandalizing churches’ etc is absolutely right and true what he has stated and I fully agree with him.. The cause for this could be that the Hindu Fanatics or the few rogue elements who have infiltrated the Christian religious order are afraid that in the event the Indian populace crosses to the other side of the fence and embrace Christianity, then they would loose their true identity, which presently allows them to do as the wish and pleased without having to answer to God or man, whereas in U. S. of A. first commandment examine your conscience and everything there is accounted for. Also point of Mark and which is an eye opener; is about the Indian Clergy, which includes priests, bishops, cardinals who preach from the pulpit of serving the poor with cash and kind that includes housing are instead misusing church funds and selling church properties without the knowledge of the parishioners, is a point in contention that needs to be closely investigated by the concerned authorities before it is too late and the rot sets in. Sam Furtado Bombay
Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
Dr. Helekar, First and foremost tell me please, in English word, what do youo mean by 'Apology and Regret', give me he definition? Secondly, who in his or her right sense would apologize for nothing or be sorry for having done nothing wrong. So why the question of you repeating that I retranct my words of having disreputed you in public domain when an apology to that should have an convincing effect on you and that should have sufficed you.. Do you feel that the specific kind of words have a special kind of forbearance on you and an apology would be less respectful and bring disrepute to your name and that retriving statement would have glorified you and cruxified me. I feel you have strange ways of getting things done, when at one stroke two birds can be felled you want two stones to do the job So, Stop this vicious cycle that would lead you nowhere and unnecessarity get an entanglement with no loose strings left. Sam
Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
Prof. Augusto Pinto is on a crusade to attack and smear me over something I have not done. But please note that he is afraid to name and speak out against the following people: 1. The actual perpetrators of the bomb blasts in Margao, belonging to the Sanatan Saunstha. 2. The politicians who have shilled for them, and caused harm to Goa in other ways. 3. The Maoists who are responsible for thousands of murders over the last decade in India. 4. Rajan Parrikar who stated the following referring to people like Admin Noronha: The biggest danger to communal peace in Goa is this breed of dregs, not the Sanatan Saunstha. You can take this to the bank. Rajan Parrikar Please see - http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-July/196815.html 5. AF who directly attacked Dr. Jose Pereira as follows: QUOTE when I first read of Mr. Pereira, the supposed intellect-turned-painter-turned-grumpy old man, i opined that he was just a self-taught wannabe great. Now, I read that he has painted Christ in the nude ( and the Hindus get angry that he has painted their Deities in the nude, too), I wonder where and how did he ever imagine where in the Bible there was any reference to a naked Christ. This man claims he has done research on nude Deities before formulating his drawings. I say he just wants to rile up the locals, from his self-exiled foreign perch. Shame on Mr. Pereira! UNQUOTE .AF Please see: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-August/196900.html This should tell you why Prof. Augusto's crusade is a facade meant only to gain cheap sympathy from a few like-minded onlookers on Goanet. Item number 5 above should be especially instructive in this regard. Do you think Prof. Augusto Pinto cares about Dr. Jose Pereira's reputation? I don't think so. This campaign, like all ideological campaigns, is driven more by hate than love. Cheers, Santosh --- On Mon, 8/2/10, augusto pinto pinto...@gmail.com wrote: Dr Santosh Helekar continues his efforts to divert attention from the death threats which the Sanathan Saunstha and the Hindu Janajagriti Samiti have issued against the Parkinson's disease afflicted 79 year old artist, scholar and philosopher, by making a big issue about the email that is reproduced below. For Santosh Helelar it is more important to focus on the hurt that a certain Sami Furtado has caused to his fragile ego, than to do anything to defend an aged scholar, philosopher, and artist like Dr. Jose Pereira. Once more Santosh, I congratulate you on the felicity of your rhetorical skills. * * * How were the 1950s, East African Goans and British Overseas Citizenship linked? Which Kenyan-Goan was one of the world fastest sprinters in the 1960s? What did the 1878 London-Lisbon treaty mean to Goa? Find your answers in Selma Carvalho's *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Buy from Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
August 2, 2010 The Biggest misnomer of the day about the Goans is by Dr. Santosh Helekar's, email, which relates to the brewed contraversy on Dr. Jose Pereira's Paintings', and which I quote below: Quote: The biggest danger to communal peace in Goa is this breed of dregs, not the Sanatan Saunstha. ?You can take this to the bank. Unquote: It is people like Dr. Santosh Helekar who are communal biased and cannot mesticate the facts of life or reality. Every person in his own right have freedom of expression; Be it in writing, painting or voicing, irrespective of the nature of the subject. Everthing likes in the Eyes of the Beholder. So what despicability or deplorability or disgraceful is there in Dr. Jose's Paintings? I think he needs to visit a Shrink. To sum up in short it is people like Dr. Santosh Helekar, who are communal frenzy and these are the people need to be watched closely or else they will be detrimental to the society and the peace loving Goans. Sam * * * In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
--- On Sun, 8/1/10, Rajan P. Parrikar parri...@yahoo.com wrote: Criticism of Hinduism, Hindus, Hindu Right, Hindu Anything in itself does not make anyone anti-Hindu. To cite an extreme case, I have never thought of Nascy as anti-Hindu. Semi-literate clown, yes. Anti-Hindu, no. I am not sure what Nascimento is, and I don't really care. I only like the entertainment he provides in the Goanet circus, and am always looking forward to goading him into lowering the semi-literacy level of this forum further with each post. The anti-Hindu fellow harbours a deep resentment towards any assertion of Hindu identity or any attempt at Hindu organization, whether it is political or social. Anytime he sees something which in his mind demonstrates Hindu strength his instinct is to smear it, or fabricate stories to tar the individual or group. I see nothing wrong in being opposed to politicization of religion, or to an assertion of a political (not social) identity based on religion, as long as it is even-handed, i.e. applied to all religions equally, if one claims to uphold the Indian secular outlook. The latter is where in my estimation Admin Noronha and others like him fall short, even after making allowance for the fact that minorities should receive special protection in a democracy driven by the majority vote. And yes, there is no reflection, self-reflection and weighing on a case by case basis. There is always the same boiler-plate narrative that is applied to everything, and everybody who has a difference of opinion, about a political issue or event. Cheers, Santosh * * * In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
I would request Sam Furtado to retract the statements he has made against me below. I have never made the assertion that he has falsely quoted as my own. My position on Dr. Jose Pereira's paintings is exactly what it has been all along with other artistic and academic freedom issues such as those related to Hussain, Dan Brown and Da Vinci code movie, Salman Rushdie and Subodh Kerkar. I am unconditionally in favor of artistic and academic freedom, and am opposed to anybody who uses violence and intimidation to stifle it. Groups such as Hindu Janajagruti Samiti, inappropriately named Catholic Secular Forum, Islamic Defense Council, etc stand for everything that I am against. But I have no problem as long as they express their protests in a peaceful manner, as the lady in the video was doing. Cheers, Santosh --- On Mon, 8/2/10, Sam Furtado sfrainbo...@gmail.com wrote: The Biggest misnomer of the day about the Goans is by Dr. Santosh Helekar's, email, which relates to the brewed contraversy on Dr. Jose Pereira's Paintings', and which I quote below: Quote: The biggest danger to communal peace in Goa is this breed of dregs, not the Sanatan Saunstha. ?You can take this to the bank. Unquote: It is people like Dr. Santosh Helekar who are communal biased and cannot mesticate the facts of life or reality. Every person in his own right have freedom of expression; Be it in writing, painting or voicing, irrespective of the nature of the subject. Everthing likes in the Eyes of the Beholder. So what despicability or deplorability or disgraceful is there in Dr. Jose's Paintings? I think he needs to visit a Shrink. To sum up in short it is people like Dr. Santosh Helekar, who are communal frenzy and these are the people need to be watched closely or else they will be detrimental to the society and the peace loving Goans. Sam * * * In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
Santosh Helekar wrote: I do not agree with Rajan that Admin Noronha is anti-Hindu. But it is clear to me that he is not a secular pluralist either... blah blah blah... I would like to congratulate Dr. Santosh Helekar on his ability to twist arguments, ideas and words in such a way that others are put completely on the defensive. This spin-doctor-ability is an absolute marvel to me. Look at the issue at hand. The subject is: Re: Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events. I had originally raised this issue to point to the perfidy of the Hindu Janajagriti Samiti who had through an allied organisation - the Sanatan Saunstha - put out hate propaganda through its newspaper the Sanatan Prabhat, and had published the phone numbers of the Xavier Centre for Historical Research which led to a spate of hate calls to the XCHR, wherein the 79 year old Dr. Jose Pereira was even threatened of being decapitated. At the XCHR talk by Dr. Jose Pereira, where the activists of the HJS intruded to lecture him about their hurt sentiments Frederick Noronha pointed out to them their perfidious act of publishing the phone numbers of the XCHR and suggesting to their misguided readers that they make threatening phone calls to the XCHR. Santosh Helekar used this point to hijack the subject of Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events - to turn it into a diatribe against FN. The fact that an old scholar, artist and philosopher has been issued death threats has been drowned out in the meanwhile. Remember, the Sanatan Saunstha is the organisation which wanted to explode bombs on Narkasur day last year. The fact that they failed and killed two of their own members is a different issue. I am sure the Sanatanists will be very grateful to Santosh Helekar for diverting attention away from this terrorist organisation and the irony of it is that he has accused FN - who was instrumental in pointing out to their perfidy - of being the aggressor!! I wish to congratulate Santosh Helekar on his excellent rhetorical skills. -- Augusto Pinto 40, Novo Portugal, Moira, Bardez, Goa, India E pinto...@gmail.com or ypinto...@yahoo.co.in P 0832-2470336 M 9881126350 * * * In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
Dr Santosh Helekar continues his efforts to divert attention from the death threats which the Sanathan Saunstha and the Hindu Janajagriti Samiti have issued against the Parkinson's disease afflicted 79 year old artist, scholar and philosopher, by making a big issue about the email that is reproduced below. For Santosh Helelar it is more important to focus on the hurt that a certain Sami Furtado has caused to his fragile ego, than to do anything to defend an aged scholar, philosopher, and artist like Dr. Jose Pereira. Once more Santosh, I congratulate you on the felicity of your rhetorical skills. . Dr Santosh Helekar wrote to goanet: Re: Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events I would request Sam Furtado to retract the statements he has made against me below. I have never made the assertion that he has falsely quoted as my own. My position on Dr. Jose Pereira's paintings is exactly what it has been all along with other artistic and academic freedom issues such as those related to Hussain, Dan Brown and Da Vinci code movie, Salman Rushdie and Subodh Kerkar. I am unconditionally in favor of artistic and academic freedom, and am opposed to anybody who uses violence and intimidation to stifle it. Groups such as Hindu Janajagruti Samiti, inappropriately named Catholic Secular Forum, Islamic Defense Council, etc stand for everything that I am against. But I have no problem as long as they express their protests in a peaceful manner, as the lady in the video was doing.Cheers,Santosh--- On Mon, 8/2/10, Sam Furtado sfrainbow51 at gmail.com wrote: The Biggest misnomer of the day about the Goans is by Dr. Santosh Helekar's, email, which relates to the brewed contraversy on Dr. Jose Pereira's Paintings', and which I quote below: Quote: The biggest danger to communal peace in Goa is this breed of dregs, not the Sanatan Saunstha. ?You can take this to the bank. Unquote: It is people like Dr. Santosh Helekar who are communal biased and cannot mesticate the facts of life or reality. Every person in his own right have freedom of expression; Be it in writing, painting or voicing, irrespective of the nature of the subject. Everthing likes in the Eyes of the Beholder. So what despicability or deplorability or disgraceful is there in Dr. Jose's Paintings? I think he needs to visit a Shrink. To sum up in short it is people like Dr. Santosh Helekar, who are communal frenzy and these are the people need to be watched closely or else they will be detrimental to the society and the peace loving Goans. Sam -- Augusto Pinto 40, Novo Portugal, Moira, Bardez, Goa, India E pinto...@gmail.com or ypinto...@yahoo.co.in P 0832-2470336 M 9881126350 * * * In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
Prof. Augusto Pinto is nicely demonstrating the cheap political campaigning tactics that I had mentioned in this thread - tactics of smearing, linking with devilish political opponents, terrorist organizations, murderers, etc. The following quote of the professor has everything he accuses me of and more - twisting of words, spin-doctoring, verbal abuse and insults: QUOTE I am sure the Sanatanists will be very grateful to Santosh Helekar for diverting attention away from this terrorist organisation and the irony of it is that he has accused FN - who was instrumental in pointing out to their perfidy - of being the aggressor!! UNQUOTE .Prof. Augusto Pinto An utter lack of self-reflection is also evident. This is the malady that afflicts people who are driven by an unbalanced view of the world centered around recycled ideologies and visceral identities, rather than independent rational thought. Do you think these people will ever succeed in doing anything constructive for the secular cause? I don't. They will continue fighting their petty political battles, cherry picking which murderers to shill for and which murderers to attack based on their prearranged ideological agenda. The same holds true for whom they abuse in public forums. Do you think Prof. Augusto or Admin Noronha will confront, speak out against or abuse AF for the following post? QUOTE when I first read of Mr. Pereira, the supposed intellect-turned-painter-turned-grumpy old man, i opined that he was just a self-taught wannabe great. Now, I read that he has painted Christ in the nude ( and the Hindus get angry that he has painted their Deities in the nude, too), I wonder where and how did he ever imagine where in the Bible there was any reference to a naked Christ. This man claims he has done research on nude Deities before formulating his drawings. I say he just wants to rile up the locals, from his self-exiled foreign perch. Shame on Mr. Pereira! UNQUOTE .AF Please see: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-August/196900.html I don't. Cheers, Santosh --- On Mon, 8/2/10, augusto pinto pinto...@gmail.com wrote: I would like to congratulate Dr. Santosh Helekar on his ability to twist arguments, ideas and words in such a way that others are put completely on the defensive. This spin-doctor-ability is an absolute marvel to me. Look at the issue at hand. The subject is: Re: Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events. I had originally raised this issue to point to the perfidy of the Hindu Janajagriti Samiti who had through an allied organisation - the Sanatan Saunstha - put out hate propaganda through its newspaper the Sanatan Prabhat, and had published the phone numbers of the Xavier Centre for Historical Research which led to a spate of hate calls to the XCHR, wherein the 79 year old Dr. Jose Pereira was even threatened of being decapitated. At the XCHR talk by Dr. Jose Pereira, where the activists of the HJS intruded to lecture him about their hurt sentiments Frederick Noronha pointed out to them their perfidious act of publishing the phone numbers of the XCHR and suggesting to their misguided readers that they make threatening phone calls to the XCHR. Santosh Helekar used this point to hijack the subject of Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events - to turn it into a diatribe against FN. The fact that an old scholar, artist and philosopher has been issued death threats has been drowned out in the meanwhile. Remember, the Sanatan Saunstha is the organisation which wanted to explode bombs on Narkasur day last year. The fact that they failed and killed two of their own members is a different issue. I am sure the Sanatanists will be very grateful to Santosh Helekar for diverting attention away from this terrorist organisation and the irony of it is that he has accused FN - who was instrumental in pointing out to their perfidy - of being the aggressor!! I wish to congratulate Santosh Helekar on his excellent rhetorical skills. -- * * * In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
To Goanet - Dr. Santosh Helekar wrote: At variance with what is posted below, I was pleasantly surprised to see that there was a polite and respectful discussion between the lady representative of the extremist Hindu organization, Dr. Jose Pereira and the organizers of the exhibition. The only provocation for confrontation that I saw was from Admin Noronha. I just took a look at the two posted videos. The only piece of hostility there, as Dr. Helekar has noted, came from the anti-Hindu, communal, muckraking, coward-of-a-smear-merchant Frederick Noronha. To the likes of Admin Noronha and his fellow cohorts like the Commie operator Gadgil, only Hindu malfeasance is visible, and they will lie through their pustulated behinds at every opportunity provided by the fringe Hindu rightwing to portray the Hindu Right as the biggest danger since Nazi Germany. At the same time, they will invent every reason possible to whitewash Muslim atrocities. The biggest danger to communal peace in Goa is this breed of dregs, not the Sanatan Saunstha. You can take this to the bank. Now apropos of the video - I completely disagree with the lady representative of the HJS. Hurt feelings is a lame ploy. I say, get tough and get real. Your faith ought not to be so fragile that some paintings somewhere rattles it. You also do not have any right to disrupt a private exhibition funded by private monies. (You may have had a case if public monies were being used, in which case it should apply across the board, to all religions.) Finally, Sri Krishna's amorous impulses and dalliances must be CELEBRATED - and they indeed, are, in song and dance, if these folks knew anything about their own traditions - not denied or kept under wraps. It is a sad commentary on today's Hindus that they have internalized Christian and Muslim prudery to repudiate what is a glorious aspect of their own spiritual and cultural tradition. Regards, r * * * Encounter hints (and more) of the Goan life in Zanzibar, Poona, Mombasa, Basra, Dubai, and even Nuvem and Colva, Sanvordem and colonial Goa. Learn of experiences that shaped Goans worldwide. Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* now available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Ask a friend to buy it, before it gets sold out. Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
Glad to note that the skin-deep secularists are now exposing themselves on Goanet. Earlier, the argument used to be my bigots are better than your bigots. Now it seems to have shifted to: if you challenge the logic of my bigots, I will target you instead. All while claiming the secular space! FN On 1 August 2010 05:29, Rajan P. Parrikar parri...@yahoo.com wrote: To Goanet - Dr. Santosh Helekar wrote: At variance with what is posted below, I was pleasantly surprised to see that there was a polite and respectful discussion between the lady representative of the extremist Hindu organization, Dr. Jose Pereira and the organizers of the exhibition. The only provocation for confrontation that I saw was from Admin Noronha. I just took a look at the two posted videos. The only piece of hostility there, as Dr. Helekar has noted, came from the anti-Hindu, communal, muckraking, coward-of-a-smear-merchant Frederick Noronha. To the likes of Admin Noronha and his fellow cohorts like the Commie operator Gadgil, only Hindu malfeasance is visible, and they will lie through their pustulated behinds at every opportunity provided by the fringe Hindu rightwing to portray the Hindu Right as the biggest danger since Nazi Germany. At the same time, they will invent every reason possible to whitewash Muslim atrocities. The biggest danger to communal peace in Goa is this breed of dregs, not the Sanatan Saunstha. You can take this to the bank. Now apropos of the video - I completely disagree with the lady representative of the HJS. Hurt feelings is a lame ploy. I say, get tough and get real. Your faith ought not to be so fragile that some paintings somewhere rattles it. You also do not have any right to disrupt a private exhibition funded by private monies. (You may have had a case if public monies were being used, in which case it should apply across the board, to all religions.) Finally, Sri Krishna's amorous impulses and dalliances must be CELEBRATED - and they indeed, are, in song and dance, if these folks knew anything about their own traditions - not denied or kept under wraps. It is a sad commentary on today's Hindus that they have internalized Christian and Muslim prudery to repudiate what is a glorious aspect of their own spiritual and cultural tradition. * * * Encounter hints (and more) of the Goan life in Zanzibar, Poona, Mombasa, Basra, Dubai, and even Nuvem and Colva, Sanvordem and colonial Goa. Learn of experiences that shaped Goans worldwide. Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* now available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Ask a friend to buy it, before it gets sold out. Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
To Goanet - Frederick Noronha wrote: Glad to note that the skin-deep secularists are now exposing themselves on Goanet. I am not a secularist, never have been. Frederick Noronha once again goes about his daily drip of lies and smears. The only one who stands exposed on Goanet is Frederick Noronha. The light is now shining on those parts of Admin Noronha where the sun rarely shines. Admin Noronha should tell his fellow Catholics from the villages of Arossim, Cansaulim, Benaulim etc if he has been subsidized (and by whom) to downplay and/or deny the rampant construction madness in Goa. Catholic villagers of San Jose de Areal and other Salcette villages also want to know if Admin Noronha is subsidized to shill for the ghatis that have been stuffed in the voter rolls. Regards, r * * * In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
I do not agree with Rajan that Admin Noronha is anti-Hindu. But it is clear to me that he is not a secular pluralist either. The grounds for this belief are quite obvious. Admin Noronha is driven by an entrenched ideology. As with all ideologies, it has outlived its purpose, if it had any purpose in the first place. Like its counterparts, it pigeonholes everybody who does not swallow its precepts hook, line and sinker, into a monolithic camp opposed to all that is good and dandy in this world. That is why he, like others with similar afflictions, uses the usual methods of negative political campaigning against people who are different in any respect from him - the methods of guilt by association, smear, innuendo, etc. The other unfortunate casualty of this unreasonable outlook, beholden to a political ideology rather than to a rational approach towards the day-to-day transactions of regular folk, is an inability to recognize their habitual lapses in fairness and even-handedness. The confrontational attitude that he showed in that video amidst a sober and sensible discussion between two parties should give you some insight into what I am talking about. A person who is secular is first and foremost dispassionate and considerate. She proceeds with no presumptions, or the presumption of innocence, in her every day interactions. She recognizes that even good and decent people can be misguided, and indeed, quite often are. I am hoping to see a glimpse of this someday in Admin Noronha and other like-minded folk who like to think of themselves as fighting for the secular cause. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 8/1/10, Frederick Noronha fredericknoro...@gmail.com wrote: Glad to note that the skin-deep secularists are now exposing themselves on Goanet. Earlier, the argument used to be my bigots are better than your bigots. Now it seems to have shifted to: if you challenge the logic of my bigots, I will target you instead. All while claiming the secular space! FN On 1 August 2010 05:29, Rajan P. Parrikar parri...@yahoo.com wrote: I just took a look at the two posted videos. The only piece of hostility there, as Dr. Helekar has noted, came from the anti-Hindu, communal, muckraking, coward-of-a-smear-merchant Frederick Noronha. To the likes of Admin Noronha and his fellow cohorts like the Commie operator Gadgil, only Hindu malfeasance is visible, and they will lie through their pustulated behinds at every opportunity provided by the fringe Hindu rightwing to portray the Hindu Right as the biggest danger since Nazi Germany. * * * In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
To Goanet - Dr. Santosh Helekar wrote: I do not agree with Rajan that Admin Noronha is anti-Hindu. But it is clear to me that he is not a secular pluralist either. The grounds for this belief are quite obvious. Admin Noronha is driven by an entrenched ideology. As with all ideologies, it has outlived its purpose, if it had any purpose in the first place. My use of the term anti-Hindu for Admin Noronha was deliberate. Criticism of Hinduism, Hindus, Hindu Right, Hindu Anything in itself does not make anyone anti-Hindu. To cite an extreme case, I have never thought of Nascy as anti-Hindu. Semi-literate clown, yes. Anti-Hindu, no. The anti-Hindu fellow harbours a deep resentment towards any assertion of Hindu identity or any attempt at Hindu organization, whether it is political or social. Anytime he sees something which in his mind demonstrates Hindu strength his instinct is to smear it, or fabricate stories to tar the individual or group. Groups like HJS are a Godsend to him for they feed right into his pre-conceived narrative. At the same time, similar expression by Christians, Jews, or Muslims elicits no such disapproval; indeed Muslim atrocities are whitewashed as a matter of course. Exhibit A of this breed is the Indian Marxist, of which we had one here on Goanet (I hear that that bhailo is now fouling the air in the capitalist haven of Singapore. The hypocrite.) Admin Noronha is anti-Hindu in the sense outlined but I am not sure he is actuated by any ideology - that would mean that his worldview is shaped by reflection and study, for which there is no evidence whatsoever. What we know is that he is a master of the cut paste, an agile Googlemeister, a garden-variety smear merchant, a purveyor of slime lies. I wouldn't go digging into Noronha's soul looking for anything deeper. Regards, r * * * In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
[Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
I was present at The Xavier Centre of Historical Research (Alto Porvorim, to witness the opening of the exhibition of paintings by Dr. Jose Pereira on 26 July. As Dr. Delio Mendonca wrote:Epiphanies of the Hindu Gods is a unique suite of pastel paintings conceived by the artist as a tribute to his Hindu ancestry, and to the Indian classical tradition to which he has devoted a lifetime of prodigious scholarship. Each beautiful painting in the exhibition is based directly on descriptive passages in the original Sanskrit texts, and each figure is derived in minute detail from existing temple carvings, sculptures and paintings. It is a unique body of work, made even more impressive by the fact that the artist has executed them at the summation of a magnificent scholarly career, despite the setback of Parkinson´s disease. Alongside Epiphanies of the Hindu Gods, the XCHR is delighted to present a retrospective exhibition of previous paintings by Dr. Pereira, including a rare self-portrait from 1946, and a collection of superb oil paintings based on the artist´s Catholic heritage. Among these are three monumental Pietas, each of which lay damaged and forgotten for decades before being restored by Dr. Pereira at the XCHR just this week. Seen together with his luminous recent work, all these paintings make an undeniable case for Dr. Pereira to be included among our greatest artists. Padmashree Dr. Maria Aurora Couto, gave the keynote address on this occasion, recounting the selfless search for knowledge that Dr Pereira had exhibited all his life and Dr. Nandkumar Kamat who presided over the event, praised the octogenarian as being the greatest living polymath of Goa. Subsequently I was astonished to read reports such as http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?688665 This report says that Hindu Janajagruti Samiti (HJS), a Hindu organisation, had objected to the paintings by Dr Jose Pereira, which had shown Hindu deities in nude. I was astonished because any sane person who had seen those paintings would have said that this was an expression of great reverence for his Hindu ancestry. Dr Jose Pereira had another talk as well on 28 July at XCHR entitled Folk Plays of Salcette. The almost 90 year old Dr. Jose Pereira kept the small audience spell-bound as, even as his hands shivered as a result of Parkinson's disease, he re-enacted a khell called Konk Mauxi. which he had noted down some six decades ago. This event was presided over by Dr. Rafael Fernandes, a Professor of English at Goa University, who is an expert on tiatrs. However after the discussion where Dr. Jose Pereira took questions from the audience, the Director of XCHR Dr Delio Mendonca of the Alto Porvorim- based Xavier Centre of Historical Research made the following announcement regarding the controversy over Dr. Jose Pereira's exhibition of paintings there. http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg64908.html The XCHR regrets to announce the temporary withdrawal of three paintings from its latest art exhibition, 'Epiphanies of the Hindu Gods' by the eminent Sanskrit scholar and wide-ranging intellectual giant, Dr. Jose Pereira. For the last twenty-four hours, the Centre has come under sustained pressure from the Hindu Janjagruti Samiti and its members, who have filed a police complaint against Dr. Pereira's paintings, and indulged in a non-stop campaign of telephone threats and warnings to the point of disrupting normal communications for the XCHR. The anonymous telephone calls have included many threats of violence, including a threat of decapitation of the 80-yr-old artist, who incidentally suffers from Parkinson's disease. Dr. Pereira's 'Epiphanies of the Hindu Gods' are based entirely on original Sanskrit scriptures, and their imagery is derived entirely from the most characteristic iconography of ancient India. He has compiled a small encyclopedia of references to classical Indian sculpture and painting that back up every aspect of every painting in this exhibition, which have been rendered in the same artistic spirit in which Dr. Pereira paints nude images of Christ (also on display in the same gallery). Contrary to the claim that these images are against Indian culture, they actually embody the highest cultural ideals of our great civilization. Though the XCHR is co-operating with the police request to temporarily withdraw these paintings, it strongly condemns the threats and disrespect shown to this great Goan scholar. We also regret the inconvenience caused to the art and culture lovers of our state, and take the opportunity to apologize to Dr. Pereira on behalf of the people and society of Goa, which has again demonstrated a systemic failure in its capacity to honour, appreciate and stand by its greatest artists and intellectuals.s would have called them a tribute to the Indian tradition of the highest nature that anyone could have paid: whether Christian, Muslim, Hindu, agnostic or atheist. But there was
Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
At variance with what is posted below, I was pleasantly surprised to see that there was a polite and respectful discussion between the lady representative of the extremist Hindu organization, Dr. Jose Pereira and the organizers of the exhibition. The only provocation for confrontation that I saw was from Admin Noronha. It is true that there can be multiple interpretations for scriptures, and literary texts, which add to its cultural value, but unfortunately religious folk insist on their own unique interpretation. This is true for all religions. The important question therefore in a secular democracy is how to deal with this issue. I for one would vote to protect artistic and academic freedom above everything else. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sat, 7/31/10, augusto pinto pinto...@gmail.com wrote: He said that they had in their newspaper, the Marathi, Sanatan Prabhat, provocatively provided the phone numbers of the XCHR and suggested that their readers should ring up this number and threaten them. The intruders who could be seen to be becoming increasingly uncomfortable by the gandhigiri displayed by the organisers, as well as the fact that they were being shown up to be an irrational trouble fomenting group, then beat a hasty retreat. * * * Encounter hints (and more) of the Goan life in Zanzibar, Poona, Mombasa, Basra, Dubai, and even Nuvem and Colva, Sanvordem and colonial Goa. Learn of experiences that shaped Goans worldwide. Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* now available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Ask a friend to buy it, before it gets sold out. Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
[Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
In the second video, a person in a blue I(striped?) shirt sitting by the window suddenly arises and walks across while abruptly stating---Please put that in writing (as?) Father has already said? Is he is lawyer? venantius j pinto Message: 1 Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 16:39:35 +0530 From: augusto pinto pinto...@gmail.com To: secular...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events (DEL) Frederick Noronha filmed them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uHkFqo2VGc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ncM67jAlcg * * * Encounter hints (and more) of the Goan life in Zanzibar, Poona, Mombasa, Basra, Dubai, and even Nuvem and Colva, Sanvordem and colonial Goa. Learn of experiences that shaped Goans worldwide. Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* now available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Ask a friend to buy it, before it gets sold out. Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
