On the slim chance that anyone is following along...
Yes, we found another pair of split drawers in the the vast Reed Homestead
(Townsend Historical Society) collection. They definitely belonged to an
adult, and like the child-sized pair... well worn and heavily mended.
--- On Thu, 8/11/11,
Back at the Reed Homestead... we are moving on to the next pile -- stacks and
stacks of shirt-like garments with no closures (other than a few with ties at
the neck).
We hired a woman in 1995 to start pulling clothing literally out of garbage
bags and start cataloging. (Sadly, we still have
Yeah knowsome things just make sense. Ever try to go potty in a long
voluminous skirt? Hold skirt up move Indies out of way, keep you balance, aim.
Im thinking split drawer were worn a LOT by women who had only a few pair and
wore them out, hence not too many examples around like the rich
Best thing would be if you could post a photo of one or two of these garments
(spread out flat would be sufficient).
From
the description you quoted, these sound like just...shirts. Or shifts. I
don't think sacque is a term used for these garments either in that
time period or
Dede, is there anywhere you can post some pictures of the garments you're
looking at? Maybe a Facebook page or Flickr?
Martha
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Hi Dede,
I don't know if it helps at all, but I have a couple of very old
family garments that have notes with them calling them sacques. They
date across a certain spectrum: one to the 1890s, the others to a
scattering of years between 1910 and the early 1980s (the last being
one I preserved
In later years the word sacque comes up freqently in the french fashion
journals I have. Most often under the term dressing sacque or combing
sacque. From the illustrations that are in the journals the dressing
sacque is a long loose gown that falls from the shoulders, meant to be worn
after
Hi folks,
Has anyone here ever made Professor McGonagall's outfit from Goblet of
Fire, the Yule Ball scene? Forever ago I saw some pics from an
exhibition where someone had photographed the over-gown, but I can't
now find them. I'm trying to put together resources to recreate the
ensemble as
Once upon a time those in Texas found a recipe that got their woman chosen.
One ingredient was the rhinestone bodice. So, I think folks just keep on
going with what worked the last time with a little variation.
Note: Those do not look like what I saw for evening wear. They appear to be
what won
I have seen a pair in one of the online museum sites. As 1800s is not my
focus I do not have it saved somewhere.
De
-Original Message-
Yes, we found another pair of split drawers in the the vast Reed Homestead
(Townsend Historical Society) collection. They definitely belonged to an
Sacque is just French for sack, and was merely spelled differently
when more elegance was wanted. In the 19th and early 20th centuries, it
was a general term describing a loose-fitting garment, whether a man's
sack coat, a woman's sacque paletot, a woman's dressing sacque/sack, and
so on. If
Oh, and this is the kind of thing we find when we research sacque (hence NOT
the dress):
www.reconstructinghistory.com/assets/products/3237/product/RH821frontcover.jpg?1298667926
Dede
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-Original Message-
From: Janyce Hill vpll.librar...@gmail.com
Sent: Sep 14, 2011 11:29 AM
To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need information on sacque garments (NOT the dress)
In later years the word sacque comes up freqently in the french fashion
Victorian women NEEDED split drawers. They wore a long chemise over the top
of the drawers, and a corset laced up tightly on top of that, so the only
way to drop a penny was to have the drawers split. You just couldn't get
at them to pull them down from the waist.
Kim
-Original Message-
Not the same. They are are not undergarments, they worn over the
chemise/shift and petticoat.
De
-Original Message-
I don't offhand see any mention of what these sacques are made of. Are
they white linen?
If so, as a medievalist, of course my reflex would be to simply consider
these as
I actually had my nose 2 from that dress at the travel exhibit (Boston Museum
of Science). No photos, of course, but I remember... pine-ish color (maybe
overshot with something else?), with some kind of smocking -- it seemed almost
random (but wasn't).
Not much help, I know...
Dede
Okay, dumb question, but... why did they need drawers at all? Chemise, layers
of petticoats, and long skirts -- everything totally obscured, so why bother
with drawers?
Dede O'Hair
--- On Wed, 9/14/11, Kim Baird kba...@cableone.net wrote:
Victorian women NEEDED split drawers. They wore a long
Impressive research!.. Of all of them, this is probably the closest:
http://ny-image3.etsy.com/il_fullxfull.256039843.jpg
...but the necks are rounded, and snug. They are also older than the pattern
date.
Thanks!
Dede
--- On Wed, 9/14/11, otsisto otsi...@socket.net wrote:
Are you talking
The majority, at least, appear to be cotton and are hand sewn.
Dede
--- On Wed, 9/14/11, Chris Laning clan...@igc.org wrote:
I don't offhand see any mention of what these sacques are made of. Are they
white linen?
If so, as a medievalist, of course my reflex would be to simply consider these
You'll find drawers starting to creep into women's clothing starting in the
1840's and 50's. They really really started to become common when women
started to wear cage crinolines in the later 1850's. With crinoline there were
suddenly not as many layers right next to the body (nothing but
At 12:59 PM 9/14/2011, you wrote:
Victorian women NEEDED split drawers. They wore a long chemise over the top
of the drawers, and a corset laced up tightly on top of that, so the only
way to drop a penny was to have the drawers split. You just couldn't get
at them to pull them down from the
I will attempt photos next Wednesday during our next scheduled sort the vast
pile meeting. Assuming my teenager can teach me to use her digital camera by
then... (yes, I am technology-impaired). Also, the lighting is terrible.
Dede
--- On Wed, 9/14/11, Lavolta Press f...@lavoltapress.com
-Original Message-
At 12:59 PM 9/14/2011, you wrote:
Victorian women NEEDED split drawers. They wore a long chemise over the top
of the drawers, and a corset laced up tightly on top of that, so the only
way to drop a penny was to have the drawers split. You just couldn't get
at them to
You can find drawers in the late 1500s and forward. For the ladies with meat
on their thighs it is a chaffing matter. For most it is underwear.
De
-Original Message-
You'll find drawers starting to creep into women's clothing starting in the
1840's and 50's. They really really started to
http://public.fotki.com/Kait/other_costuming/professor_mcgonagal-1/profmyuleball_cropped.html#media
here is a series of photographs detailing the reconstruction of a copy of
the yule gown. I don't think they got the color just right, but there is at
least one fairly detailed photo of the
I'll certainly try (I have a Flickr account). The lady in charge takes photos
of everything as we pack them away, but they are for archival purposes.
We had a fly-by-night volunteer take photos of a day's work of chemises,
because she had a better camera... and we never saw her again (or the
We should keep in mind that our definition of modesty would differ greatly from
their definition of modesty. Also, what we consider uncomfortable, because
we don't do it / wear it all the time, was not necessarily uncomfortable to
them, because they grew up dressing that way, there was no
Bear in mind I'm no expert, but they really do appear to be something a woman
would have worn. Not sure if any have laundry marks, but that would cinch it
as we know all the initials of the entire Reed family.
Perhaps she was introducing sacque as a generic term? Like shoe could
describe an
Unfortunately, I now completely understand why wearing split drawers would be
desirable.
Dede
--- On Wed, 9/14/11, otsisto otsi...@socket.net wrote:
For the ladies with meat
on their thighs it is a chaffing matter.
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I would assume that VCR refers to video camera recorder or some such thing.
At least that is what the term would have meant in 1995. Of course, we all
know about assumptions! ;) Did someone make a recording back then? Maybe
it's stashed in your archives somewhere.
Ginni Morgan
Dear Dede--
If you have a lampshade slightly loose on its harp, press down on one side.
The other side goes Flying up.
The crinoline does the same thing, if not managed carefully.
Even the most ladylike of persons might fall.
Drawers are definitely needed.
Also, they were in fashion and
Ah... that makes perfect sense. When she was not quite 12, my daughter
was a jr. docent in a hoop skirt. Let's just say sitting down, um...
modestly was a challenge. I had forgotten all about that experience!
Dede
--- On Wed, 9/14/11, Ann Catelli elvestoor...@yahoo.com wrote:
If you
These pictures should help. I found a site by a costumer who made one
for herself, but I can't locate it again! I'll try later.
http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Minerva_McGonagall%27s_dress_robes
http://weheartit.com/entry/12025930
No, wait, I did find it; here it is!
Good attempt. Color and the sleeves were not quite on the mark but still
good. The under gown's sleeve on the movie outfit appears to be a tight
cothardie sleeve with lots of buttons running up the sleeve.
De
-Original Message-
Excuse me if someone else has already thrown out this suggestion, but my
impression is simple - the 1995 cataloguer just plain wasn't knowledgeable
about historical clothing! The VCR was a good old antique video recording -
probably lost to posterity - and possible a good thing.
They
very interesting the color variation: the fotki picture looks relatively
moss-green, while the weheartit picture is very emerald-jewel-tone. It's the
same picture with two different color-balances. I prefer the toned-down color,
myself.
ALL the colors are differently balanced: the
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