I've added a link to the J9 installation download:
http://www-306.ibm.com/software/wireless/wctme/
Nick
-Original Message-
From: Henri Yandell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, 12 May 2005 4:08 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Wiki: VM page
Mostly from
ok, im nobody ... bt please tell me:
is it just a plan off you to create this alternati ve thing or did someone
wlready start?
which peolpe are involved in the projekt any bigletter names on its title?
...how much of the code must be handwritte, in which language?
does the language you write
Dmitry Serebrennikov wrote:
Well, I can think of one thing I would like, some way for the
packages contained in a JAR file be able to inform the underlying
runtime not only its external dependencies, but also what it provides
(or what it exposes). Due to limitations in the Java
Peter Donald wrote:
What you are asking for here is new language extensions - effectively
an assembly or jar access specifier to go along with private,
protected, public and package access. This would be very useful -
particularly if different jars/assemblies were of higher importance in
Harmony is focus on provide a Tiger compatible JVM, but i think it is
possible to make it more general for other language such as .NET, Haskell,
Smalltalk etc.
I think in this point it would be better, to go the way like Haiku (the
BeOS-rewrite):
The first and importants goal is, to be 100%
Greg, Noel,
Any ETA on when we can get some information from you regarding this?
We are all anxiously waiting. As mentioned we need legal review and
feedback regarding GPL+Exception and we need to get the ball rolling
on getting our concerns cleared with the FSF folks.
Thanks,
dims
PS: *Please*
On May 12, 2005, at 7:17 AM, theUser BL wrote:
I hope you use C to write the VM for Harmony.
GCJ would suit all the concerns you listed. In many ways, GCJ can be
thought of as C++ in Java syntax, plus a nice runtime library. GCJ
can load .dll/.so files, etc (using extensions to the standard
yes, anyone can modify the wiki. please go ahead and create a login id
for yourself and make changes.
thanks,
-- dims
On 5/12/05, Juan Leyva Delgado [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I've found this article (http://www.dwheeler.com/java-imp.html) about Java
implementations that looks very interesting.
What I'm suggesting is that you can have other relationships that
generate the same confidence - such as an external verifier that
signifies that it has done its job by signing the bytecode.
I see. Sounds like it would work. But there's more to security than
bytecode verification --- various
Thanks a ton Greg...Now its time for FSF folks to chime in with a legal opinion.
-- dims
CC'ing [EMAIL PROTECTED] as per dalibor on #classpath
On 5/12/05, Greg Stein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dims,
The current position of the ASF is that all of our software is licensed
under the Apache
Greg Stein wrote:
Dims,
The current position of the ASF is that all of our software is licensed
under the Apache License. No dual licensing, no variations, and no special
exceptions for any of our codebases. This provides our users with a very
simple model of licensing. Everything is licensed the
Ben,
There a few folks who think otherwise w.r.t to the Exception being
non-viral. This email was to get an official response from FSF in that
regard.
Once we get past that problem, we have to get an ok for provining a
single bundle. I think 2 downloads to get a working JVM (say on M$
platform)
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
Ben,
There a few folks who think otherwise w.r.t to the Exception being
non-viral. This email was to get an official response from FSF in that
regard.
True enough, though I don't think we've had a legal opinion either way.
--
http://www.apache-ssl.org/ben.html
Any reason not to use the wiki - http://wiki.apache.org/harmony ?
On 12/05/05, Nick Lothian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
One of the big problems for newcomers to the Harmony project is
discovering what has already been discussed. I suspect this could get
worse as the project expands.
I've
(harmony specific - back to this list only)
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
Ben,
Once we get past that problem, we have to get an ok for provining a
single bundle. I think 2 downloads to get a working JVM (say on M$
platform) is to say it mildly...crazy.
While it is great to see everyone continue
Hi,
On Thu, 2005-05-12 at 15:10 +0100, Ben Laurie wrote:
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
Ben,
There a few folks who think otherwise w.r.t to the Exception being
non-viral. This email was to get an official response from FSF in that
regard.
True enough, though I don't think we've had a
Check out PUGS, an implementation of Perl6 in Haskell.
http://www.pugscode.org/
and an article over at LtU.
http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/view/593
Just a thought. Of course, I'd like to see a JVM written in Erlang,
but I'm eccentric like that. :-)
Simon
On 5/12/05, Przemysaw Rumik
Dear Greg, Noel,
If my following statements are not correct. Please correct me ASAP.
Folks,
For now the situation is as follows (till someone takes a step, from
ASF side or FSF side):
- No one can check-in classpath jars or sources into Apache's SVN repo.
- Java code in ASF SVN repository can
Mladen,
there's tons of work for just a JVM. so we will start with that. are u
saying that for example Tomcat should not use *ANY* external jars?
Yes, we can use APR to do the JVM.
-- dims
On 5/12/05, Mladen Turk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
Dear Board and Incubator PMC,
dropping [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
See below:
On 5/12/05, Mladen Turk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
Mladen,
there's tons of work for just a JVM. so we will start with that. are u
saying that for example Tomcat should not use *ANY* external jars?
You
Humberto S. N. dos Anjos wrote:
Just to add a little note: C# (I'm not sure about the other .NET languages)
deals with this issue by adding a new access modifier, internal, that makes
the class/method/field/property visible by all classes in the same assembly.
Could this behavior be emulated
Check the design of Jikes at,
http://www.research.ibm.com/journal/sj/391/alpern.pdf
Though the memory subsytem section is a little outdated,
that should not prevent you from understanding how it
works.
--
Ravi
On Thu, 12 May 2005 10:30:12 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 12 May 2005, at 12:17,
Santiago,
if we use classpath...we will need the 2 kinds of hooks into classpath
(see http://wiki.apache.org/harmony/ for the links)
thanks,
dims
On 5/12/05, Santiago Gala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
El jue, 12-05-2005 a las 11:07 -0400, Davanum Srinivas escribió:
- Java code in ASF SVN
Ravi,
can you please add the link to the wiki as well.
thanks,
dims
On 5/14/05, Ravi kiran Gorrepati [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Check the design of Jikes at,
http://www.research.ibm.com/journal/sj/391/alpern.pdf
Though the memory subsytem section is a little outdated,
that should not
In a lighter vein...
- Wish we could resolve the licensing discussions and move on.
- Wish one or more of the existing VM's consider donating to Apache.
- Wish some of the BigCo's help with code and worker bees.
- Wish we get to our first Hello World! soon.
- Wish we end hunger/poverty/war all
El jue, 12-05-2005 a las 13:08 -0400, Davanum Srinivas escribi:
if we use classpath...we will need the 2 kinds of hooks into classpath
(see http://wiki.apache.org/harmony/ for the links)
The I guess the statement should rather be:
- code in ASF SVN repository can import from classpath jars.
yep. makes sense (dropping [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED])
-- dims
On 5/12/05, Santiago Gala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
El jue, 12-05-2005 a las 13:08 -0400, Davanum Srinivas escribió:
if we use classpath...we will need the 2 kinds of hooks into classpath
(see
And end this long chain of diemmas of Java or C, GNU Classpath or new
etc., and start designing :-)
Regards,
Satish.
On 12/05/05, Davanum Srinivas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a lighter vein...
- Wish we could resolve the licensing discussions and move on.
- Wish one or more of the existing
Awesome! thanks.
-- dims
On 5/12/05, Dave Turner via RT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Here are some questions to think about:
What restrictions would Apache be willing to accept and still use
Classpath as part of Apache?
What restrictions would be totally unacceptable?
We are working
Mladen == Mladen Turk [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Mladen IMHO the ASF has much more transparent OS abstraction layer (APR)
Mladen then either classpath or any other library has. Also developing that
Mladen is less demanding task then JVM/JIT/GC etc... is thought.
Rewriting Classpath's native code
Yes: It's not a blog.
It might make sense to maintain a FAQ there, though.
Nick
-Original Message-
From: Ricky Clarkson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, 12 May 2005 11:54 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: A small documentation contribution
Any
In the only-partially-dreaming wishlist category:
It would be really nice if (and make sense for) Sun open sourced Swing.
That would:
a) Help classpath along a lot
b) Be a competitive move on Sun's part against IBM's SWT.
-Original Message-
From: Davanum Srinivas [mailto:[EMAIL
Dalibor == Dalibor Topic [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Mladen Turk wrote:
AFAICT, one of the goals is to pass the TCK's, so how can you do that
if you don't have a full control over the major part of the package?
Dalibor In the same way all the other runtimes pass the TCK without having
Dalibor
[snip]
GCJ begins to fall short where you wish to use Java's dynamic
loading/linking capabilities. Classes must be loaded
dynamically, garbage collected when they're no longer used,
and integrated with the existing code. They must be
bytecode-verified and sandboxed. I'm sure that
Everytime i read posts from you lot at Apache i feel more conviced this
thing is going to be one huge success.
I cant imagine how convincing your salesmen must be !! (If you indeed did
have salesment to market).
On 5/13/05, Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I didn't cc Gerry - I
Agree.
2005/5/12, Stefano Mazzocchi [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
wrote:
Harmony is focus on provide a Tiger compatible JVM, but i think it is
possible to make it more general for other language such as .NET,
Haskell,
Smalltalk etc.
the Harmony VM may define such a VM core, such as memory
I don't see how you see thar steve. WE guys want to pass the JCK/TCK. They
can't without JNI or getStackTrace(). The project would fail JCK otherwise.
Gerry
On 5/12/05, Steven Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From what I've read on the announcements it looks like native calls
will not be
Nick Lothian wrote:
GCJ begins to fall short where you wish to use Java's dynamic
loading/linking capabilities. Classes must be loaded
Most modern Java programs make extensive use of dynamic loading
linking, and that usage is increasing.
Recent releases of the Sun VM have put a lot of emphasis
Can somebody comment on this guys claims,
http://www.jroller.com/page/fate/20050507#death_to_apache
Ps. warning: lot of flaming of our idealogies take place there but i would
still like to see him shut up.
--
www.FaeLLe.com http://www.FaeLLe.com
Hani is a smart guy and we would be wise to listen to what he is saying.
He's a very active contributor to many (non-Apache) open source projects
and has probably contributed more lines of open source code than the
majority of people on this list. If that doesn't give him the right to
comment then
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
Steve,
is there some writeup on the your approach to making JikesRVM modular
and composable?
thanks,
dims
This is all very much work in progress, but since our thinking on this
task relates so closely to the Harmony goals, I thought it was worth
writing something down.
Nick Lothian wrote:
GCJ begins to fall short where you wish to use Java's dynamic
loading/linking capabilities. Classes must be loaded
Most modern Java programs make extensive use of dynamic loading
linking, and that usage is increasing.
Recent releases of the Sun VM have put a
IMHO both JITs and pre-compiling have their place.. it
depends on the application whether one is definitely better
than the other.
Ideally, the design of harmony would allow for people to
pursue both approaches and the two could coexist peacefully.
This is a recipe for a bloated system that never
I assume that there is a project lead or leads associated
with this coming from the Apache project, and they will make
the determination of these initial matters.
So speak up project lead(s). We are here. We are talking a
lot, but not much is happening. Order us about. Assign
So speak up project lead(s). We are here. We are talking a lot, but
not much is happening. Order us about. Assign work. Let's get our
hands dirty. The likelihood is that there will be changes along the
way anyhow. There almost always are, and developers dedicated to the
project will
On 5/13/05, Kev Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So speak up project lead(s). We are here. We are talking a lot, but
not much is happening. Order us about. Assign work. Let's get our
hands dirty. The likelihood is that there will be changes along the
way anyhow. There almost always
Hmm my mail got bounced,
*Symantec Mail Security detected that you sent a message containing
prohibited content (SYM:09556261464022074052)*
Subject of the message: Re: Against using Java to implement Java (Was:
Java)Recipient of the message: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
How are you wasting replying to emails and undertaking a discussion.
Undertaking discussion isn't bad by itself. But discussing things and
producing nothing is. From these discussions that have already occured,
I would have liked to see some resolution. We are going to tackle x
first, we
On 5/13/05, Kev Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
How are you wasting replying to emails and undertaking a discussion.
Undertaking discussion isn't bad by itself. But discussing things and
producing nothing is. From these discussions that have already occured,
I would have liked to
Nick Lothian wrote:
Hani is a smart guy and we would be wise to listen to what he is saying.
He's a very active contributor to many (non-Apache) open source projects
and has probably contributed more lines of open source code than the
majority of people on this list. If that doesn't give him
It seems people want something specific to work on. Here's an idea I
had:
Apache Harmony should develop a JVM launcher (java/java.exe) that
uses a standard API (based on JNI_CreateJavaVM()) that will allow any VM
to be used. Note that this is different to the alternatives command in
Linux which
constructive_interest
[snip - I'm not qualified to answer the first question]
This brings me to the second question. In my experience,
writing in Java and writing in C (and therefore thinking in
Java and thinking in C) tends to produce very different
programs. The languages just lead
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