Re: [Haskell-cafe] Join and it's relation to = and return

2004-06-09 Thread Jerzy Karczmarczuk
Iavor S. Diatchki wrote: Ron de Bruijn wrote: I am pretty sure, that = is to monads what * is to for example natural numbers, but I don't know what the inverse of = is. And I can't really find it anywhere on the web(papers, websites, not a single sole does mention it. this is not quie correct.

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Join and it's relation to = and return

2004-06-09 Thread Ron de Bruijn
--- Iavor S. Diatchki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi ron, here are the relations between the two formulations of monads: (using haskell notation) map f m = m = (return . f) join m = m = id m = f = join (fmap f m) there are quite a few general concepts that you need

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Join and it's relation to = and return

2004-06-09 Thread Rik van Ginneken
snip ?! I found out what a group is: ?! A group is a monoid each of whose elements is ?! invertible. ?! OK. ?! Only I still find it weird that join is called a ?! multiplication, because according to the definition of ?! multiplication, there should be an inverse. I think, No, it ain't. If

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Join and it's relation to = and return

2004-06-09 Thread Graham Klyne
At 08:20 09/06/04 -0700, Ron de Bruijn wrote: Only I still find it weird that join is called a multiplication, because according to the definition of multiplication, there should be an inverse. For real or rational numbers, maybe. But also think about Integers, or matrices. [ 1 2 ] * [ 3 ] = [

[Haskell-cafe] RE: Modelling Java Interfaces with Existential data types

2004-06-09 Thread Mike Aizatsky
Ralf, thanks for your time to look into the HList paper. It's quite good. It reminds me the quirks Alexandrescu does in his Modern C++ Design or here http://osl.iu.edu/~tveldhui/papers/Template-Metaprograms/meta-art.html . Since type system allows implementation of natural arithmetic, do you

Re: [Haskell-cafe] RE: Modelling Java Interfaces with Existential data types

2004-06-09 Thread Ralf Laemmel
Mike Aizatsky wrote: It's quite good. It reminds me the quirks Alexandrescu does in his Modern C++ Design or here http://osl.iu.edu/~tveldhui/papers/Template-Metaprograms/meta-art.html . Since type system allows implementation of natural arithmetic, do you know, is it Turing-complete? Yes, C.

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Join and it's relation to = and return

2004-06-09 Thread Ron de Bruijn
Hello again, I have thought a while about morphisms and although I had written down in my paper that a functor and also a natural transformation are also morphisms, but in a different category, I now am not sure anymore of this. If you see everything(objects and morphisms) as dots and arrows,

Re: [Haskell-cafe] RE: Modelling Java Interfaces with Existential data types

2004-06-09 Thread André Pang
On 10/06/2004, at 3:29 AM, Mike Aizatsky wrote: thanks for your time to look into the HList paper. It's quite good. It reminds me the quirks Alexandrescu does in his Modern C++ Design or here http://osl.iu.edu/~tveldhui/papers/Template-Metaprograms/meta-art.html . Since type system allows

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Join and it's relation to = and return

2004-06-09 Thread ajb
G'day all. Quoting Ron de Bruijn [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I have thought a while about morphisms and although I had written down in my paper that a functor and also a natural transformation are also morphisms, but in a different category, I now am not sure anymore of this. It's true. In