Deniz Dogan deniz.a.m.do...@gmail.com writes:
2009/12/8 Jon Fairbairn jon.fairba...@cl.cam.ac.uk:
Deniz Dogan deniz.a.m.do...@gmail.com writes:
[...] allow hyphens in identifiers, much like in Lisp
languages? E.g. hello-world would be a valid function name.
I (among others) suggested it
On Tue, 2009-12-08 at 10:56 +0100, Deniz Dogan wrote:
Has there been any serious suggestion or attempt to change the syntax
of Haskell to allow hyphens in identifiers, much like in Lisp
languages? E.g. hello-world would be a valid function name.
You mean to parse a - b differently then a-b?
Nicolas Pouillard wrote:
Henning Thielemann wrote:
@Apfelmus:
For practical purposes I think Train should have swapped type parameters
in order to make Functor act on the type of the list elements.
data Train b a = Wagon a (Train b a)
| Loco b
The functor on the
On Wednesday 09 December 2009 4:54:15 am Maciej Piechotka wrote:
You mean to parse a - b differently then a-b? You don't have the problem
in LISP as AFAIR you use (- a b) but in Haskell it would be a problem.
About unicode - if something looks the same it should be parsed the
same. I mean -
2009/12/9 Maciej Piechotka uzytkown...@gmail.com:
On Tue, 2009-12-08 at 10:56 +0100, Deniz Dogan wrote:
Has there been any serious suggestion or attempt to change the syntax
of Haskell to allow hyphens in identifiers, much like in Lisp
languages? E.g. hello-world would be a valid function
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009, Daniel Fischer wrote:
Am Mittwoch 09 Dezember 2009 00:02:30 schrieb Lennart Augustsson:
And if you use quotRem it's faster (unless you're running on some
exotic hardware like NS32K).
Yes, but Henning Thielemann was busy in the exception vs. error thread, so I
didn't
Tom Tobin korp...@korpios.com writes:
In temporary lieu of posing questions explicitly to the SFLC, I dug
up a copy of _Intellectual Property and Open Source_ by Foobar (and
published by O'Reilly), and found this (from an entire chapter —
Chapter 12 — about the GPL):
Nevertheless, there is
Am Mittwoch 09 Dezember 2009 11:47:49 schrieb Henning Thielemann:
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009, Daniel Fischer wrote:
Am Mittwoch 09 Dezember 2009 00:02:30 schrieb Lennart Augustsson:
And if you use quotRem it's faster (unless you're running on some
exotic hardware like NS32K).
Yes, but Henning
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Henning Thielemann
lemm...@henning-thielemann.de wrote:
Ist der Ruf erst ruiniert, lebt es sich ganz ungeniert. 8-]
Is there an English translation of it?
Google translate says : If the reputation is ruined, one can live
quite openly.
David.
A makeshift preprocessor written say in Perl could be used to replace the
embedded hyphens with underscores thereby making them synonyms. A list of ways
in which hyphens are used in the language will need to be developed so they may
be distinguished. You don't want a single line comment sign
Oh yes I forgot. You will also need to map not merely those places where
hyphens are used by the language, but also those circumstances where, wondering
how to state it abstractly, anyway in string literals and such where
substitutions should not
Also, there is a paper about doing a type-safe diff in Agda,
http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1596614.1596624
I heard rumors that the library will be ported to Haskell.
-chris
On 8 dec 2009, at 15:20, Bayley, Alistair wrote:
From: haskell-cafe-boun...@haskell.org
Hi, all,
When pkg-config info is not available for a library (when I could
use pkgconfig-depends), what should I use to check if needed
libraries are installed and to give the compiler all needed info
about include files and library location?
Also, is it possible to do that without configure
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 13:41, Chris Eidhof wrote:
Also, there is a paper about doing a type-safe diff in Agda,
http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1596614.1596624
Surprisingly, the paper also discusses a comparable implementation in
Haskell.
I heard rumors that the library will be ported
Hello,
I just uploaded a new release of Maurício C. Antunes' bindings-libusb
to hackage. See:
http://hackage.haskell.org/package/bindings-libusb-1.4.2
bindings-libusb is a bindings-DSL based, low-level binding to libusb.
This release adds support for the recent libusb-1.0.5.
BTW, there is work
Hello
I made a new release of my usb library for high-level communication
with usb devices from Haskell. See:
http://hackage.haskell.org/package/usb-0.3
I made the following changes compared to the previous 0.2.0.1:
- Moved the enumeration of usb devices in its own module:
Hello,
My usb library provides a standard Haskell abstracting layer over
bindings-libusb providing: abstract types instead of Ptrs, automatic
marshalling and unmarshalling, automatic garbage collection,
exceptions instead of integer return codes, etc..
While all that is very nice there are still
Hello everyone,
I have released a minor update of my ls-usb program:
http://hackage.haskell.org/package/ls-usb
This small utility lists USB devices connected to your system. It can
also show you the device descriptors, interface descriptors, vendor
and product identifiers and various other
Yesterday, I set out to accomplish the challenge of loading and
playing a sound from a file.
So far, my attempts have resulted only in silence... rather
disheartening after all the effort
it took to get everything to build and run cleanly.
I currently take the following steps:
- Load samples
Hi Maurício,
When pkg-config info is not available for a library (when I could
Until you get the perfect answer you may want to have a look at the
cabal definitions of
zlib digest OpenGLRaw GLUT readline GLFW wxcore terminfo berkeleydb
BerkeleyDB hubris pcre-light HDBC-mysql HDBC-sqlite3
On Mon, 2009-12-07 at 20:31 +0100, Henning Thielemann wrote:
Somehow I missed this thread. I want to say that I have implemented a general
way to add the information of an exception to the end of an arbitrary data
structure.
Hello,
I would like the announce the release of my package unicode-symbols:
http://hackage.haskell.org/package/unicode-symbols
It offers alternative symbols for a number of common functions and
operators from the base and containers packages. When used in
combination with the language extension
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Ketil Malde ke...@malde.org wrote:
Tom Tobin korp...@korpios.com writes:
If it turns out that Hakyll *is* okay to be BSD3 licensed so
long as neither any binary nor the GPL'd work's source is distributed
under non-GPL terms, well ... I'll say that the meaning of
Hi All,
Would a pure Haskell version of pexports be useful to the Haskell community?
For a Sunday afternoon hack that turned out to take a bit more effort
(its now Wednesday), I thought I'd code up a tool that extracts
function symbols from .dll's (also when I first looked at the C
pexports it
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Bas van Dijk v.dijk@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
My usb library provides a standard Haskell abstracting layer over
bindings-libusb providing: abstract types instead of Ptrs, automatic
marshalling and unmarshalling, automatic garbage collection,
exceptions
sigh -- to the list this time.
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Tom Tobin korp...@korpios.com wrote:
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Ketil Malde ke...@malde.org wrote:
Tom Tobin korp...@korpios.com writes:
If it turns out that Hakyll *is* okay to be BSD3 licensed so
long as neither any
hi matthew,
On 09.12.09 14:37, Matthew wrote:
Yesterday, I set out to accomplish the challenge of loading and playing
a sound from a file.
So far, my attempts have resulted only in silence... rather
disheartening after all the effort
it took to get everything to build and run cleanly.
I
On 09.12.09 14:35, Bas van Dijk wrote:
I made a new release of my usb library for high-level communication
with usb devices from Haskell.
looks great, thanks! do you happen to have some example code for working with
HID devices (mice, keyboards, etc.)?
sk
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 4:20 PM, stefan kersten s...@k-hornz.de wrote:
looks great, thanks! do you happen to have some example code for working with
HID devices (mice, keyboards, etc.)?
The usb package does not support the various device classes directly.
You won't find a function like
On 2009-12-08 16:11, S. Doaitse Swierstra wrote:
In principle it is not possible to parse left-recursive grammars [...]
I suspect that this statement is based on some hidden assumption. It
/is/ possible to parse many left recursive grammars using parser
combinators, without rewriting the
* ANNOUNCING:*
* SUMMER INTERNSHIP FOR NASA-SPONSORED PROJECT *
The National Institute of Aerospace (NIA) and Galois, Inc. would like
to announce a Summer Visitor
hi roel,
On 09.12.09 16:50, Roel van Dijk wrote:
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 4:20 PM, stefan kersten s...@k-hornz.de wrote:
looks great, thanks! do you happen to have some example code for working with
HID devices (mice, keyboards, etc.)?
The usb package does not support the various device
Ouch. That's what happens when you let a machine do the translation. How
about:
Once your good name is trashed, you can live unabashed.
David Virebayre wrote:
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Henning Thielemann
lemm...@henning-thielemann.de wrote:
Ist der Ruf erst ruiniert, lebt es sich
Until you get the perfect answer you may want to have a look at
the cabal definitions of
zlib digest OpenGLRaw GLUT readline GLFW wxcore terminfo
berkeleydb BerkeleyDB hubris pcre-light HDBC-mysql HDBC-sqlite3
HDBC-odbc HDBC-postgresql
I do know them. But they just include needed .h and .c
From: Richard O'Keefe o...@cs.otago.ac.nz
Subject: Re: [Haskell-cafe] A new form of newtype
People are now writing EDSLs using Haskell to generate code for
all sorts of interesting things. What if you want to use Haskell
as a host for an EDSL targeted at a 24-bit DSP?
*plug* for this
On Wednesday 09 December 2009 10:51:02 am Nils Anders Danielsson wrote:
On 2009-12-08 16:11, S. Doaitse Swierstra wrote:
In principle it is not possible to parse left-recursive grammars [...]
I suspect that this statement is based on some hidden assumption. It
/is/ possible to parse many
Erik de Castro Lopo wrote:
There are bigger problems than that. The Microsoft compiler still doesn't
support large chunks of the 1999 ISO C Standard.
Seriously? OK, well that's news to me. I was under the impression that
practically all C compilers in existence support the same set of
Robert Greayer wrote:
It helps, I believe, if you stop thinking of MinGW with MSYS as 'a
pseudo-Unix system'. They're billed as the minimal toolset required
on windows to use the GNU compilers and build system (and, as
everybody knows, Gnu's not Unix). The great thing about these
compilers
siki wrote:
I've posted this before but did not get a whole lot of responses, so here it
is again:
Principal investment firm based in Manhattan is looking for an outstanding
software developer to develop and maintain the firm's proprietary valuation
models as well as accounting and portfolio
Although much work has apparently gone into providing support for manipulation
binary data I was unable to uncover a Haskell equivalent of the C fgetc and
fputc functions. The Haskell equivalents work with Unicode character streams,
not bytes words etcetera. I did find a library for handling
My interest isn't actually to push around characters. I do enough of that. What
I really want to do is push bits and not bytes.___
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
What I wrote under Allowing hyphens in identifiers and what Richard O'Keefe
wrote earlier under A new form of newtype caused me to think. It was pointed
out that hyphens are not permitted in Haskell identifiers much as they are in
Lisp for good cause even though such a feature is regarded by
To help clarify my meaning Haskell would be used as an assembler language or
put in another way an intermediate language for those constructs that are
caught by the preprocessor for special processing. Since Haskell is a
functional language I would imagine that this would be
2009/12/9 Andrew Coppin andrewcop...@btinternet.com:
I see. So you're saying that while Cygwin is a Unix emulator, MinGW is just
a set of Unix-style tools which run natively on Windows?
Yes, in a nutshell MinGW executables are native. Executables in Cygwin
may or may not have dependencies on
There are several C standards by year of publication. There are also drafts
of those standards. A C compiler may comply with a draft of the official
standard before it became official, but not the official standard itself.
Rarely does anyone seek full compliance with respect to any standard it
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 11:33 AM, John D. Earle johndea...@cox.net wrote:
My interest isn't actually to push around characters. I do enough of that.
What I really want to do is push bits and not bytes.
I thought that fgetc and fputc worked on bytes, not bits?
I've had great luck using the
Chris Eidhof wrote:
Also, there is a paper about doing a type-safe diff in Agda,
http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1596614.1596624
That is locke dbehind some ridiculous paywall.
It seems the same paper is available here:
http://people.cs.uu.nl/andres/GDiff.html
Erik
--
John D. Earle wrote:
Although much work has apparently gone into providing support for
manipulation binary data I was unable to uncover a Haskell equivalent of
the C fgetc and fputc functions. The Haskell equivalents work with Unicode
character streams, not bytes words etcetera. I did find a
Andrew Coppin wrote:
Erik de Castro Lopo wrote:
There are bigger problems than that. The Microsoft compiler still doesn't
support large chunks of the 1999 ISO C Standard.
Seriously? OK, well that's news to me.
Yes, seriously:
Stephen Tetley wrote:
If there are compelling uses that aren't covered by pexports and would
ease Haskell C binding problems on Windows, I don't mind polishing up
my tool, but otherwise I've exhausted my natural interest.
I think the main problem you'll face is that pexports is a windows
only
It appears there are several implementations existing on Hackage of the
following function, in various disguises:
runPar :: [IO a] - IO [a]
the idea being that the IO computations are run in parallel, rather than
sequentially. My own Streaming Component Combinators package contains a
People in the Haskell community get awfully excited about Haskell's type
system.
When I was first learning Haskell, I found this rather odd. After all, a
type is just a flat name that tells the compiler how many bits to
allocate and which operations to allow, right?
As I read further, I
I have to admit, it's just one criterion too much for me. I can manage to
satisfy all of them except for willing to work in Manhattan.
Bob
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 5:54 PM, Tom Tobin korp...@korpios.com wrote:
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 11:09 AM, siki ga...@karamaan.com wrote:
I've posted this
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 2:17 PM, Mario Blazevic mblaze...@stilo.com wrote:
It appears there are several implementations existing on Hackage of
the following function, in various disguises:
runPar :: [IO a] - IO [a]
the idea being that the IO computations are run in parallel, rather
Hi Erik
I'm neither expecting nor obliging Unix users to do anything...
pexports (the C tool) extracts function names from dlls. In one of the
messages on the PortAudio thread [1], John Lask explained how to get
from a standard Windows .dll to an .a file suitable for GHC (which is
bundled with a
Antoine Latter wrote:
A similar function that I'm fond of:
forkExec :: IO a - IO (IO a)
It's cute that forkExec already has a dual operation with just the right
name (specialised to IO):
join :: IO (IO a) - IO a
___
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
A similar function that I'm fond of:
forkExec :: IO a - IO (IO a)
forkExec k
= do
result - newEmptyMVar
_ - forkIO $ k = putMVar result
return (takeMVar result)
Although I don't think it can be generalized to non-IO monads.
Antoine
I can't test it right now, but wouldn't the
I think it would be a usefull addition to the haskell windows tool
chain, and help facilitate the creation of bindings to libraries on
windows where no appropriate import library exists.
I am sure if you put it out there in whatever form, someone will find
a use for it and perhaps build
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 7:22 PM, Lee Houghton gm...@asztal.net wrote:
I like this idea.
Thanks
A small observation, though:
stdin :: ReadModes ioMode = Handle ioMode
stdin = Handle SIO.stdin
This allows writing to stdin by choosing ReadWriteMode as the ioMode. I
think it would be better
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 3:44 PM, Mario Blazevic mblaze...@stilo.com wrote:
I can't test it right now, but wouldn't the following do the job in
the Identity monad?
forkExec :: Identity a - Identity (Identity a)
forkExec k = let result = runIdentity k
in result `par` return
John,
It might be better to go about it in a fashion similar to how one
would use Haskell to create a new language using Happy, but instead
of making a full fledged language create a language that makes only
minor adjustments to the official language where most of the
original source
On Dec 9, 2009, at 10:54 PM, Maciej Piechotka wrote:
You mean to parse a - b differently then a-b? You don't have the
problem
in LISP as AFAIR you use (- a b) but in Haskell it would be a problem.
It's a problem that COBOL solved a long time ago:
COMPUTE INCREASED-DEBT =
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Bas van Dijk v.dijk@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Bas van Dijk v.dijk@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
My usb library provides a standard Haskell abstracting layer over
bindings-libusb providing: abstract types instead of Ptrs, automatic
2009/12/9 Richard O'Keefe o...@cs.otago.ac.nz:
On Dec 9, 2009, at 10:54 PM, Maciej Piechotka wrote:
You mean to parse a - b differently then a-b? You don't have the problem
in LISP as AFAIR you use (- a b) but in Haskell it would be a problem.
It's a problem that COBOL solved a long time
Never underestimate teh power of the Int{Set,Map}:
{-# LANGUAGE BangPatterns #-}
import Data.Set(Set)
import Data.IntSet(IntSet)
import qualified Data.Set as S
import qualified Data.IntSet as IS
import Control.Parallel.Strategies(rnf)
import Data.Monoid(Monoid(..))
import Data.List
findsumsIS ::
On Dec 10, 2009, at 2:58 AM, Roel van Dijk wrote:
I tried to be conservative with the choice of unicode symbols. I have
defined the division sign (÷) to be (/). But it could just as well be
defined as 'div'.
No it couldn't. One expects 3÷2 to be 1½, not 1.
You will, for example, find this
On Thu, 2009-12-10 at 11:54 +1300, Richard O'Keefe wrote:
On Dec 9, 2009, at 10:54 PM, Maciej Piechotka wrote:
You mean to parse a - b differently then a-b? You don't have the
problem
in LISP as AFAIR you use (- a b) but in Haskell it would be a problem.
It's a problem that COBOL
The problem that I see with elision resulting in juxtaposition is that it
would alter the layout. Each line would not have the same number of
characters before and after the makeover. Visual appearance would also be
altered. Replacing hyphens with underscores as I originally proposed would
Stefan, I managed to look at the paper and yeah you may be onto something. I
am certainly open to ideas. Looks promising. There needs to be a standard
way to extend the language without having to concern oneself with everything
that goes under the hood. There is certainly an interest in this.
On Dec 9, 2009, at 3:24 PM, Maciej Piechotka wrote:
On Thu, 2009-12-10 at 11:54 +1300, Richard O'Keefe wrote:
- Composition: In which first letters are not capitalized
In combination of those I belive there is no disambiguoty since the
lower case words functions as terminators.
Except
It's a good thing then that forkExec and return are denotationally equal
(though not operationally). Otherwise, I'd be worried.
Matthew Brecknell wrote:
Antoine Latter wrote:
A similar function that I'm fond of:
forkExec :: IO a - IO (IO a)
It's cute that forkExec already has a dual
2009/12/9 Richard O'Keefe o...@cs.otago.ac.nz
On Dec 10, 2009, at 2:58 AM, Roel van Dijk wrote:
I tried to be conservative with the choice of unicode symbols. I have
defined the division sign (÷) to be (/). But it could just as well be
defined as 'div'.
No it couldn't. One expects 3÷2
I can't test it right now, but wouldn't the
following do the job in the Identity monad?
forkExec :: Identity a - Identity (Identity a)
forkExec k = let result = runIdentity k
in result `par` return (Identity result)
Since Identity is a newtype, would that be
I delved a little more deeper into
http://people.cs.uu.nl/arthurb/data/Macros/Manual.pdf. I'm uncertain if I am
able to understand the value of what its authors are proposing. The emphasis
appears to be on extending the syntax of the language at runtime, but like
so what. My impression after
a while ago, I wrote a minimal and inefficient code to generate and play an
audible 4-second-sine sound
http://hpaste.org/fastcgi/hpaste.fcgi/view?id=1538
Can you hear something with it ?
___
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org
On Dec 10, 2009, at 12:24 PM, Maciej Piechotka wrote:
[it appears that I have been misinformed about . vs . ]
Personally I don't have any strong feelings about conventions as
long as
they are consistent within one language. Camel cases are no more
uncommon then the underscore and they
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 3:26 PM, John D. Earle johndea...@cox.net wrote:
The problem that I see with elision resulting in juxtaposition is that it
would alter the layout. Each line would not have the same number of
characters before and after the makeover. Visual appearance would also be
On 2009-12-09 18:50, Dan Doel wrote:
(Your parsers aren't PEGs, are they? If so, I apologize for the
redundancy.)
No, my parsers use Brzozowski derivatives.
See the related work section of the paper I mentioned for some other
parser combinator libraries which can handle (some) left recursive
On Dec 9, 2009, at 16:51 , Bas van Dijk wrote:
I will change the types to:
stdin :: Handle ReadMode
stdout :: Handle WriteMode
stderr :: Handle WriteMode
Or are there scenarios where people want to write to stdin or read
from stdout or stderr?
These situations *do* come up; the controlling
Interesting point. I'll have to try what you suggested. A proportional font
would lessen the need to align things up vertically. It is annoying from a
typographical stand point when things are almost aligned, but a tad off and
so I must admit that I am guilty as charged. Monospaced fonts
On Wed, 2009-12-09 at 15:54 -0800, Gregory Crosswhite wrote:
On Dec 9, 2009, at 3:24 PM, Maciej Piechotka wrote:
On Thu, 2009-12-10 at 11:54 +1300, Richard O'Keefe wrote:
- Composition: In which first letters are not capitalized
In combination of those I belive there is no disambiguoty
On Wed, Dec 09, 2009 at 06:11:04PM -0700, John D. Earle wrote:
Is Parsec capable of parsing a mildly context sensitive language? In
particular does it parse a combinatory categorial grammar? Does
Haskell have such tools in its shed? What sort of facilities does
Haskell have for natural
maybe this helps ...
see http://www.cs.chalmers.se/~aarne/GF/
I quote from the web site: GF is
a categorial grammar formalism, like ACG, CCG, but different and
equipped with different tools
it compiles with at least GHC 6.8.2
Is Parsec capable of parsing a mildly context sensitive language?
Yes, I was referring to CCG. Thank you.
--
From: John Lask jvl...@hotmail.com
Sent: 09 Wednesday December 2009 1920
To: John D. Earle johndea...@cox.net
Cc: Haskell Cafe haskell-cafe@haskell.org
Subject: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Natural Language
G'day all.
Quoting Dan Weston weston...@imageworks.com:
Ouch. That's what happens when you let a machine do the translation.
How about:
Once your good name is trashed, you can live unabashed.
Until you've lost your reputation, you never realize what a burden it was.
-- Margaret Mitchell
Andrew Coppin wrote:
What we're really trying to do here is attach additional information to
a value - information which exists only in the type checker's head, but
has no effect on runtime behaviour (other than determining whether we
*get* to runtime). As far as I can tell, Haskell does not
John D. Earle wrote:
Is Parsec capable of parsing a mildly context sensitive language? In particular
does it parse a combinatory categorial grammar? Does Haskell have such tools in
its shed? What sort of facilities does Haskell have for natural language
processing?
If you come back at the
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 7:47 PM, wren ng thornton w...@freegeek.org wrote:
Andrew Coppin wrote:
What we're really trying to do here is attach additional information to a
value - information which exists only in the type checker's head, but has no
effect on runtime behaviour (other than
There are at least two parser combinator libraries that can deal with
*any* left-recursive grammars. That said, Prof. Swierstra's advice to
try to get rid of left recursion is still well worth to follow.
The first library is described in
Frost, Richard, Hafiz, Rahmatullah, and
Andrew Coppin wrote:
What we're really trying to do here is attach additional information to a
value - information which exists only in the type checker's head, but has no
effect on runtime behaviour (other than determining whether we *get* to
runtime). As far as I can tell, Haskell does not
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 6:00 PM, Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH
allb...@ece.cmu.edu wrote:
On Dec 9, 2009, at 16:51 , Bas van Dijk wrote:
I will change the types to:
stdin :: Handle ReadMode
stdout :: Handle WriteMode
stderr :: Handle WriteMode
Or are there scenarios where people want to write
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