On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 11:26 PM, Daniel Fischer
daniel.is.fisc...@web.dewrote:
Okay, 'as' is easy. But can you find a situation where 'qualified' or
'hiding' would be natural choices for an identifier? I'd love to see those
in some code :)
module LordsOfMidnight.Character(Character) where
On 12 Jan 2010, at 21:25, Andrew Coppin wrote:
OK people, it's random statistics time!
Haskell '98 apparently features 25 reserved words. (Not counting forall and
mdo and so on, which AFAIK are not in Haskell '98.) So how does that
compare to other languages?
C: 32
C++: 62
Borland
On 12 Jan 2010, at 22:22, Andrew Coppin wrote:
Niklas Broberg wrote:
Haskell '98 apparently features 25 reserved words. (Not counting forall
and mdo and so on, which AFAIK are not in Haskell '98.)
21 actually. case, class, data, default, deriving, do, else, if,
import, in, infix,
As you can see, this conclusively proves... something.
What about brainfuck? 8 different signs are used.
- http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck#cite_note-0
The first link points to a page saying there is an interpreter 98 bytes
in size..
What does this prove? :-)
Marc Weber
Daniel Fischer wrote:
Heinrich Apfelmus wrote:
It is exactly because these troubles that I'm advocating the original
VIP data structure that buries the dorks (that name is awesome :D) deep
inside the structure. :)
In fact, your transformation that fixes the space leaks pretty much
emulates
I provided a Java solution to a problem of returning the first digit
of an integer on StackOverflow and someone wondered if there were any
floating point point problems with the solution, so I though I'd
implement the algorithm in Haskell and run QuickCheck on it.
Everything works fine on GHCi,
sylvain sylvain.na...@googlemail.com writes:
Let me order your list:
Smalltalk: 0
Lisp: 0
Tcl: 0
If you count reserved tokens, I guess Lisp reserves parentheses and
whitespace?
Haskell: 21 *
Python: 31
C: 32 *
JavaScript: 36
Ruby: 38
---
Borland Turbo Pascal: ~50
Java: 53
On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 2:57 AM, Gregory Collins g...@gregorycollins.netwrote:
Doing OO-style programming in Haskell is difficult and unnatural, it's
true (although technically speaking it is possible). That said, nobody's
yet to present a convincing argument to me why Java gets a free pass for
On 13 Jan 2010, at 09:51, Peter Verswyvelen wrote:
On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 2:57 AM, Gregory Collins g...@gregorycollins.net
wrote:
Doing OO-style programming in Haskell is difficult and unnatural, it's
true (although technically speaking it is possible). That said, nobody's
yet to present a
A while ago, someone provided me a link to the paper Type Inference
for Overloading without Restrictions
http://www.dcc.ufmg.br/~camarao/ct-flops99.ps.gz
Although I don't understand everything in this paper, I wander what
people's opinions are about this regarding a future Haskell language
The problem with interfaces as a replacement for type classes is that
they only provide dispatch based on the specific type of the first
argument (i.e. the receiver).
Type classes allow you to dispatch based on return type, and on the
instantiations of generic parameters. Neither of these things
2010/1/13 Lauri Pesonen lauri.peso...@iki.fi:
I provided a Java solution to a problem of returning the first digit
of an integer on StackOverflow and someone wondered if there were any
floating point point problems with the solution, so I though I'd
implement the algorithm in Haskell and run
On Jan 13, 2010, at 11:00 AM, Sittampalam, Ganesh wrote:
Type classes allow you to dispatch based on return type, and on the
instantiations of generic parameters. Neither of these things is
reasonably possible with interfaces.
There is recent work that generalises the capabilities of
On Jan 13, 2010, at 03:49 , Martin Coxall wrote:
COBOL: Over 400 (!)
If we're going to go that far, FORTRAN and PL/1 have none. FORTRAN is
somewhat infamous for this: DO 10 I = 1, 400 is a loop start, DO
10 I = 1. 400 (note typo, . for ,) parses as the assignment
DO10I = 1.400. (This
Yes that is true, but often in Haskell I had to use type annotations
when the dispatch is based on the return type, so it also has some
tradeoffs.
Don't get me wrong, I see the advantages of Haskell's type classes and
closures, and I love these. But in Java - if you stay close to OO, and
don't
On Jan 13, 2010, at 05:07 , Lauri Pesonen wrote:
I expect this to be a known issue with floats. Sorry for the noise.
Yep. There's a faction that wants Float and Double to not be in the
Eq typeclass, because floating point calculations can never reliably
be compared for equality. (There
But when I try to compile it (after having successfully compiled the
C code
with g++), I get:
$ ghc --make Main.hs
You are not telling ghc to link against the C/C++ code, e.g.
ghc --make Main.hs srilm.o
Regards,
Malcolm
___
Haskell-Cafe
Fraser Wilson blancoli...@gmail.com writes:
module LordsOfMidnight.Character(Character) where
data Character = C { name :: String,
location :: (Int,Int),
facing :: Direction,
hour :: Int,
energy
Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH allb...@ece.cmu.edu writes:
If we're going to go that far, FORTRAN and PL/1 have none. FORTRAN is
somewhat infamous for this:
There's also the option (perhaps this was PL/1?) of writing constructs
like: IF THEN THEN IF ELSE THEN etc. Having few reserved words isn't
On Jan 13, 2010, at 05:45 , Ketil Malde wrote:
Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH allb...@ece.cmu.edu writes:
If we're going to go that far, FORTRAN and PL/1 have none. FORTRAN
is
somewhat infamous for this:
There's also the option (perhaps this was PL/1?) of writing constructs
like: IF THEN THEN
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 12:29 AM, Evan Laforge qdun...@gmail.com wrote:
Occasionally I have a function with an unused argument, whose type I
don't want to restrict. Thus:
f :: _unused - A - B
f _ a = b
I probably misunderstood the problem, why not f:: a - A - B
David
On Jan 13, 2010, at 05:54 , David Virebayre wrote:
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 12:29 AM, Evan Laforge qdun...@gmail.com
wrote:
Occasionally I have a function with an unused argument, whose type I
don't want to restrict. Thus:
f :: _unused - A - B
f _ a = b
I probably misunderstood the problem,
Hello DNM,
Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 8:57:45 AM, you wrote:
Note: I'm relatively new to Haskell, and my knowledge of C and C++ is
basically pretty
minimal -- I can read, modify and compile C/C++ programs (usually).
1. you use too much unsafePerformIO. since you need newCString, i
suggest
Am Mittwoch 13 Januar 2010 10:43:42 schrieb Heinrich Apfelmus:
I wonder whether it's really the liveness of pair in
mergeSP (a,b) pair
= let sm = spMerge b (fst pair)
in (a ++ fst sm, merge (snd sm) (snd pair))
that is responsible for the space leak, for chances are that
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 4:59 AM, Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH
allb...@ece.cmu.edu wrote:
On Jan 13, 2010, at 05:54 , David Virebayre wrote:
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 12:29 AM, Evan Laforge qdun...@gmail.com wrote:
Occasionally I have a function with an unused argument, whose type I
don't want to
Peter Verswyvelen bugf...@gmail.com writes:
On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 2:57 AM, Gregory Collins g...@gregorycollins.net
wrote:
Doing OO-style programming in Haskell is difficult and unnatural,
it's true (although technically speaking it is possible). That
said, nobody's yet to
On Jan 13, 2010, at 2:16 PM, Antoine Latter wrote:
He's looking for the self-documentation aspect of this argument is
completely irrelevant. Neither rolling a random unused type
variable nor
foralling it (my first idea) really accomplishes that.
Isn't that what we have here? a function
Hi,
References to a Hack. module came in the responses to my posts on HTML-GUIs.
What is Hack then?
Günther
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http://hackage.haskell.org/package/hack
2010/1/13 Günther Schmidt gue.schm...@web.de
Hi,
References to a Hack. module came in the responses to my posts on
HTML-GUIs.
What is Hack then?
Günther
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Hi John,
thanks, I should have mentioned that I had found it on hackage, I just
don't understand what it *is* or what it's supposed to be for.
Günther
Am 13.01.10 14:46, schrieb John Van Enk:
http://hackage.haskell.org/package/hack
2010/1/13 Günther Schmidt gue.schm...@web.de
This may help more: http://wiki.github.com/nfjinjing/hack
The Hack project is based off of a project known as Rack for ruby. I'm
fairly sure the documentation you can find on Rack will help you understand
what Hack does.
2010/1/13 Günther Schmidt gue.schm...@web.de
Hi John,
thanks, I should
2010/1/13 John Van Enk vane...@gmail.com:
This may help more: http://wiki.github.com/nfjinjing/hack
The Hack project is based off of a project known as Rack for ruby. I'm
fairly sure the documentation you can find on Rack will help you understand
what Hack does.
Not knowing what Rack is
Hi,
apologies upfront. As time presses I decided to post questions
immediately as soon as I run into dead-ends.
I just don't want to give the impression that I'm not willing to do my
homework.
I'm trying to find documentation on Xhtml, the site on hackage refers to
Am 13.01.10 15:31, schrieb Günther Schmidt:
Hi,
apologies upfront. As time presses I decided to post questions
immediately as soon as I run into dead-ends.
I just don't want to give the impression that I'm not willing to do my
homework.
I'm trying to find documentation on Xhtml, the site on
Hi,
I recently read (again) the wiki page on a web application interface[1] for
Haskell. It seems like this basically works out to Hack[2], but using an
enumerator instead of lazy bytestring in the response type. Is anyone
working on implementing this? If not, I would like to create the package,
Günther,
Hack is a layer between a web application and a web server. It allows you to
write a web application once and have it communicate with the server in
different ways simply by swapping the handler. For example, I have
applications that I test on my local system using
2010/1/13 Günther Schmidt gue.schm...@web.de:
Am 13.01.10 15:31, schrieb Günther Schmidt:
Hi,
apologies upfront. As time presses I decided to post questions
immediately as soon as I run into dead-ends.
I just don't want to give the impression that I'm not willing to do my
homework.
I'm
Trying to get ssh working via putty from behind my company firewall.
My recommendation is to get access to an outside machine where you run
an OpenVPN server on port 80 or 443. This will solve it once and for
all.
But first, please complain loudly and repeatedly about the firewall
being closed
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 4:56 AM, Martin Coxall pseudo.m...@me.com wrote:
On 13 Jan 2010, at 09:51, Peter Verswyvelen wrote:
On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 2:57 AM, Gregory Collins g...@gregorycollins.net
wrote:
Doing OO-style programming in Haskell is difficult and unnatural, it's
true (although
Isn't that what we have here? a function of type (a - A - B) cannot
use the first argument in any meaningful way.
I think, he wants to document that the type variable 'a' is not used in the
*type*.
Yeah, that's the idea, sorry if I wasn't clear.
In the case of const, I might write
const ::
Hi,
these days I'm thinking about name scoping in Haskell and a question
built up silently but steadily in my mind.
Many times I see code like this:
data Foo = { fooBar :: Int, fooSay :: String, fooClose :: String }
which reminds me of Ye Olde Times of C where you prepend the
structure name
Hello Cristiano,
Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 9:43:06 PM, you wrote:
coming up to my mind is that type inference actually forbids a
type-directed resolution of names as in C++ or Java.
you are right. we either have ad-hoc polymorphism like in C++ where
type of id selected based on type of
The usual suggestion I see for this sort of thing is to create a
typeclass for the operations you care about[1][2]. For example:
---
class HasOpen a where
open :: a - Handle
data DB
data FS
openDB :: DB -
Hello John,
Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 10:08:08 PM, you wrote:
Of course, this doesn't allow you to have functions share the same
name if they have different signatures
class Open a where
open :: a
instance Open (Int - String) where ...
instance Open (String - Int) where ...
--
Best
Well, you can get part of the way there, by using a class associated type
class HasOpen a where
type Open a :: *
open :: a - Open a
This lets you use type inference in one direction, without requiring that
every result be a member of a data family. On the other hand, type inference
just
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 2:14 PM, Bulat Ziganshin
bulat.zigans...@gmail.com wrote:
class Open a where
open :: a
instance Open (Int - String) where ...
instance Open (String - Int) where ...
The problem with this approach is that you'll need to supply type
annotations with basically
Colin Paul Adams wrote:
Andrew It's weird that us Haskell people complain about there
Andrew being only 26 letters in the alphabet
Which alphabet?
You have plenty of choice in Unicode.
Er... I was under the impression that Haskell source code uses the ASCII
character set, not
Marc Weber wrote:
As you can see, this conclusively proves... something.
What about brainfuck? 8 different signs are used.
- http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck#cite_note-0
The first link points to a page saying there is an interpreter 98 bytes
in size..
What does this prove? :-)
Now, in Haskell we have type inference, which is The Good Thing as
it allows to validate your program at compile time. Hence, the idea
coming up to my mind is that type inference actually forbids a
type-directed resolution of names as in C++ or Java.
Is this correct?
There is a proposed
On Jan 13, 2010, at 14:25 , Andrew Coppin wrote:
Colin Paul Adams wrote:
Andrew It's weird that us Haskell people complain about there
Andrew being only 26 letters in the alphabet
Which alphabet?
You have plenty of choice in Unicode.
Er... I was under the impression that Haskell source
Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH wrote:
On Jan 12, 2010, at 17:12 , Niklas Broberg wrote:
Haskell '98 apparently features 25 reserved words. (Not counting
forall
and mdo and so on, which AFAIK are not in Haskell '98.)
21 actually. case, class, data, default, deriving, do, else, if,
import, in,
On Jan 13, 2010, at 14:29 , Andrew Coppin wrote:
Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH wrote:
On Jan 12, 2010, at 17:12 , Niklas Broberg wrote:
Haskell '98 apparently features 25 reserved words. (Not counting
forall
and mdo and so on, which AFAIK are not in Haskell '98.)
21 actually. case, class, data,
sylvain wrote:
Le mardi 12 janvier 2010 à 21:25 +, Andrew Coppin a écrit :
Hi Andrew,
As you can see, this conclusively proves... something.
What, exactly?
Not a lot. As you so elegantly point out, the number of keywords in a
language is a fairly crude measurement of how
On Stack overflow page Conal Elliot says:
Beware that denotational semantics has two parts, from its two founders
Christopher Strachey and Dana Scott: the easier more useful Strachey part
and the harder and less useful (for design) Scott part.
Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH wrote:
On Jan 13, 2010, at 14:29 , Andrew Coppin wrote:
Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH wrote:
Are we counting the FFI annex (foreign)?
Strictly, wasn't that added *after* the Haskell 98 report was
written? I.e., if you wanted to be ultra-technical about it, it's not
part
Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH wrote:
On Jan 13, 2010, at 14:25 , Andrew Coppin wrote:
Colin Paul Adams wrote:
Andrew It's weird that us Haskell people complain about there
Andrew being only 26 letters in the alphabet
Which alphabet?
You have plenty of choice in Unicode.
Er... I was under
On 13 Jan 2010, at 22:25, Andrew Coppin wrote:
Colin Paul Adams wrote:
Andrew It's weird that us Haskell people complain about there
Andrew being only 26 letters in the alphabet
Which alphabet?
You have plenty of choice in Unicode.
Er... I was under the impression that Haskell
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 12:55 AM, Eduard Sergeev
eduard.serg...@gmail.comwrote:
Andrew Coppin wrote:
OK people, it's random statistics time!
OK, my version of meaningless statistics:
C++ (ISO/IEC 14882:1998(E)): 325 pages (712 including standard libraries)
C# (ECMA-334): 505 pages
On Jan 13, 2010, at 14:42 , Andrew Coppin wrote:
Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH wrote:
On Jan 13, 2010, at 14:25 , Andrew Coppin wrote:
Colin Paul Adams wrote:
Andrew It's weird that us Haskell people complain about there
Andrew being only 26 letters in the alphabet
Which alphabet?
You have
On Jan 13, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Evan Laforge wrote:
It's not a big issue, but it seemed like a nice symmetry with pattern
matching syntax.
And I don't think it's a weird idea. The Haskell dialect Curry [1]
supports this syntax. Maybe the hurdle for Haskell is the competition
with more
Hi Michael,
what is your experience with hack? Do you have any problem moving your
apps from one server/env to another?
Regards,
titto
2010/1/13 Günther Schmidt gue.schm...@web.de:
Hi Michael,
on first impression this seems like a good idea then.
Günther
Am 13.01.10 15:48,
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH
allb...@ece.cmu.edu wrote:
On Jan 13, 2010, at 14:25 , Andrew Coppin wrote:
(And even if that's not the case, I've yet to find a way to type in the
Unicode characters which are hypothetically possible.)
That's a problem with your
rack (and hack) permits also to concatenate applications (request handlers)
one in top of the other. with interesting combinations (filters,
encriptation layers, applications as such). It seems that this is the reason
for its name. At first sight it seems too little code to make something
useful,
Titto,
I've had no problems with hack. The only things to keep in mind are outside
the scope of hack such as:
* Persistence. Clearly you need to optimize your application different for
CGI run (load up only what you need right now) versus long-running processes
like FastCGI (load data only
On Wed, 6 Jan 2010, Gwern Branwen wrote:
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 7:23 PM, Tony Morris tonymor...@gmail.com wrote:
ghc -e import Control.Monad; forM [[1,2,3]] reverse
As of 6.10.2, the bug whereby the GHC API lets you use functions from
anywhere just by naming them (Java-style) has not been
Maciej Piechotka schrieb:
Not quite. While I agree that the *frequent* need for a preprocessor
shows omissions in (the design of) a language. it is not necessary the
case. Preprocessor may be useful if:
- there is a new beatyful feature in newer version of compiler but you
still want to have
Hi,
well I followed klondykes advise and followed through with the examples
on the
http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Practical_web_programming_in_Haskell
site.
The authors did point out at the very beginning that the approach shown
was not very sophisticated and I'd agree with that :) .
On Wed, 2010-01-13 at 22:42 +0100, Henning Thielemann wrote:
Maciej Piechotka schrieb:
Not quite. While I agree that the *frequent* need for a preprocessor
shows omissions in (the design of) a language. it is not necessary the
case. Preprocessor may be useful if:
- there is a new
Haskell doesn't *need* preprocessors, but they sure make a lot of
things easier. There are three I use regularly (c2hs, cpphs, noweb),
and each serves a purpose which isn't directly supported by plain
Haskell:
c2hs -- Supports generating foreign function imports and wrappers
based on C header
Anonymous classes in Java close over their lexical environment (can
refer to variables in that lexical environment, with values bound at
the time of instance construction) with the caveat that only local
variables/parameters marked as 'final' may be referred to. Aside from
the horrible
The hyena backend is essentially just a translator between hack and
wai, i failed to finished it since I can't understand iteratee
(seriously) and eventually got distracted ...
What hyena tries to solve can't be realized in hack, so there's not
too much reason for a backend anyway.
Hyena is
On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 2:23 AM, Alexei Kitaev kit...@iqi.caltech.edu wrote:
Reading the discussion related to your blog, I
realized that strict State is different in that it does not actually
force the state. But forcing can be achieved by wrapping all actions
with the following function:
Bulat,
Some very good suggestions. I will try to appease Ceiling Cat and
reduce my (perhaps gratuitous) use of unsafePerformIO. I'm going to
have to use it somewhere, since I want referentially transparent code
(and I try to avoid the IO monad when possible, anyway).
2. if your function
Malcolm,
I saw this suggestion somewhere else. Unfortunately, it didn't help either.
I still get the undefined reference errors. I did eventually get ghc to
compile
Main.hs by putting the -c and -cpp flags after --make Main.hs.
Then it produces a Main.o file which (even with +x permissions on
Sorry. In my haste to paste in the .c file, I left out all the include
statements. I do have #include srilm.h there (which to my non-
C/C++ mind seems stupid -- why the hell would you need to import
the header file for the code that it's a header *for*?)
Still no dice.
Thanks for your time,
On Jan 13, 2010, at 23:28 , DNM wrote:
Sorry. In my haste to paste in the .c file, I left out all the
include
statements. I do have #include srilm.h there (which to my non-
C/C++ mind seems stupid -- why the hell would you need to import
the header file for the code that it's a header
Tom == Tom Tobin korp...@korpios.com writes:
Tom readability. The ASCII characters are universal and easily
Tom recognized
No they are not.
My wife is Chinese. When she was learning pinyin as a child, she asked
her father for help with some homework. He replied that he didn't
Dear Ryan,
Thanks a lot for your support and for pointing out a problem with my
approach to forcing the state. I was aware of this issue but I didn't
know there was a standard solution. It is indeed very natural to let
each type specify how to evaluate itself. I will try this technique on
the
Daniel Fischer daniel.is.fischer at web.de writes:
Am Mittwoch 13 Januar 2010 10:43:42 schrieb Heinrich Apfelmus:
I wonder whether it's really the liveness of pair in
mergeSP (a,b) pair
= let sm = spMerge b (fst pair)
in (a ++ fst sm, merge (snd sm) (snd pair))
Hello DNM,
Thursday, January 14, 2010, 7:07:43 AM, you wrote:
Yes, I thought of doing this, but then thought it was better to use a
so-called managed foreign pointer via newForeignPtr.
i recommend to use Ptr and switch to ForeignPtr only when you will
study how to use it. overall, unsafe*
Hello Brandon,
Thursday, January 14, 2010, 7:40:45 AM, you wrote:
Really, the only reason in this case is that there is no equivalent
for `extern C' that you can apply to a function definition, only to
a declaration
it works with GCC:
extern C int c_szOpenArchive (TABI_ELEMENT* params)
{
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