[Haskell-cafe] Re: Function to cast types

2009-03-22 Thread Achim Schneider
It never looked like a homework assignment to me, if someone puts as much original thought into a mail than the OP, it's hard to believe he wouldn't have mentioned the fact in case it was indeed homework. Speaking of it, I don't really care whether something is homework or not, what I care about

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell Logo write-in candidate

2009-03-21 Thread Achim Schneider
Jon Fairbairn jon.fairba...@cl.cam.ac.uk wrote: That's where that particular design falls down. = is an ugly symbol in the first place, and while the pun with a lambda in the middle provides some intellectual satisfaction, it doesn't outweigh the fussiness of its shape or the irrelevant

[Haskell-cafe] Re: [ANN] ansi-terminal, ansi-wl-pprint - ANSI terminal support for Haskell

2009-03-21 Thread Achim Schneider
Manlio Perillo manlio_peri...@libero.it wrote: Do you plan to extend the package to any terminal, using terminfo database? Are there any non-ansi terminals left? I assumed they were extinct... it'd come close to using EBCDIC. -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Ease of Haskell development on OS X?

2009-03-21 Thread Achim Schneider
Ross Mellgren rmm-hask...@z.odi.ac wrote: Way too many, definitely. -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect headers for copyright history. All rights reserved. Copying, hiring, renting, performance and/or quoting of this signature prohibited.

[Haskell-cafe] Re: categories and monoids

2009-03-20 Thread Achim Schneider
Wolfgang Jeltsch g9ks1...@acme.softbase.org wrote: Is ___semi___ and adjective at all? In German, we say ___halb___ instead of ___semi___ and the semi ring becomes a Halbring. Halbring as in halber Ring, isn't it? Synonymous with partly a ring (which uses an adverb)... In german, you can tack

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Ease of Haskell development on OS X?

2009-03-20 Thread Achim Schneider
Don Stewart d...@galois.com wrote: bulat.ziganshin: http://freearc.org btw, it have 35.000 downloads ATM Awesome, and congratulations! I wonder: have you thought about adding a cabal file, so we can package it automatically for all the Linux distros? Then you'd have access to

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Summer Of Code 2009 project idea

2009-03-19 Thread Achim Schneider
Csaba Hruska csaba.hru...@gmail.com wrote: Some planned features: + skeletal animation (in progress) + physics (hpysics) integration Add softbodies and IKA (scriptable) and you'll make me drool instead of merely salivate. -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Tweaking the garbage collector for realtime usage

2009-03-19 Thread Achim Schneider
Peter Verswyvelen bugf...@gmail.com wrote: The GHC documentation lists a lot of tweaks that can be done to the garbage collector. However, Haskell spin-offs like Timber http://www.timber-lang.org/ implement their own incremental garbage collector that is better suitable for real-time usage.

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Summer Of Code 2009 project idea

2009-03-19 Thread Achim Schneider
Peter Verswyvelen bugf...@gmail.com wrote: What do you mean with IKA? Inverse Kinematics Animation? yep. -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect headers for copyright history. All rights reserved. Copying, hiring, renting, performance and/or quoting of this signature

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Packet analysis framework for Haskell.

2009-03-16 Thread Achim Schneider
Vimal j.vi...@gmail.com wrote: The above are some of the features which I believe are necessary for packet analysis (or, analytics maybe?). There could be more. I was wondering if Haskell would be a good language to achieve these things. I had a brief idea and started writing an application

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-Wiki Account registration

2009-03-14 Thread Achim Schneider
Henning Thielemann lemm...@henning-thielemann.de wrote: On Fri, 13 Mar 2009, Benjamin L.Russell wrote: Why not ask new users to identify letters in a random bitmapped image of a string, as is commonly done? I assume, because those images are 1) not accessible by blind people 2)

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Alternative to Data.Binary

2009-03-14 Thread Achim Schneider
Grzegorz Chrupala grzegorz.chrup...@computing.dcu.ie wrote: Hi all, Is there a serialization library other than the Data.Binary from hackage? There are Iteratees[1]. They're still grok-in-process___ community-wise They are (afaik) currently only used for file input, though it's certainly

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Against cuteness

2009-03-13 Thread Achim Schneider
Benjamin L.Russell dekudekup...@yahoo.com wrote: balance Stop right there. Any further word about what the Taiji means would only make you look even more clueless. Take a scale if you want a symbol for balance[1]. OTOH, laziness(yin) and strictness(yang) make a far better pair of unified

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Against cuteness

2009-03-13 Thread Achim Schneider
Benjamin L.Russell dekudekup...@yahoo.com wrote: OTOH, laziness(yin) and strictness(yang) make a far better pair of unified opposites than the schemeish eval and apply (which's outer essences are both yang, changing to yin only by means of what they execute[2]). Indeed. But strictness

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Sugestion for a Haskell mascot

2009-03-13 Thread Achim Schneider
Roel van Dijk vandijk.r...@gmail.com wrote: What about the Rabbit of Caerbannog[1]. Looks cute on first sight, but upon further investigation turns out to be a vicious killer. Useful to quench any rumors of Haskell being a toy language. You just need to look a bit closer. [1]

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Design Patterns by Gamma or equivalent

2009-03-11 Thread Achim Schneider
Mark Spezzano mark.spezz...@chariot.net.au wrote: Basically I___m asking if there are any kinds of ___common denominator___ function compositions that are used again and again to solve problems. If so, what are they called? Haskellers tend to cast their design patterns into functions and

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Distributing Linux binaries

2009-03-10 Thread Achim Schneider
Lyle Kopnicky li...@qseep.net wrote: If it is a hurdle for me, I can imagine a lot of people are getting frustrated at trying to distribute their binaries on Linux. I don't think so. Developers usually just don't, and the distribution packagers seem to enjoy their specific messes... otherwise,

[Haskell-cafe] Re: FRP + physics / status of hpysics

2009-03-06 Thread Achim Schneider
Peter Verswyvelen bugf...@gmail.com wrote: Integrating hpysics with Grapefruit might be a good topic for the Hackaton, trying to make a simple game (e.g. Pong or Breakout) Be sure to have more than two simultaneously moving collision objects besides paddles in the specs, or it won't get close

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Theory about uncurried functions

2009-03-05 Thread Achim Schneider
Luke Palmer lrpal...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think set theory is trivial in the least. I think it is complicated, convoluted, often anti-intuitive and nonconstructive. Waaagh! I mean trivial in the mathematical sense, as in how far away from the axioms you are. The other kind of

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Theory about uncurried functions

2009-03-05 Thread Achim Schneider
To wrap up: While formalising, there is always a tradeoff between complexity of the theory you're using and the complexity of it being applied to some specific topic. Category theory hits a very, very sweet spot there. -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect headers for

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell Logo Voting will start soon!

2009-03-05 Thread Achim Schneider
Eelco Lempsink ee...@lempsink.nl wrote: The poll won't be public, but every subscriber to Haskell-Cafe will get a (private) voting ballot by email. What about us gmane users? -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect headers for copyright history. All rights reserved.

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Theory about uncurried functions

2009-03-04 Thread Achim Schneider
Peter Verswyvelen bugf...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe this raises a new question: does understanding category theory makes you a better *programmer*? Possibly yes, possibly no. In my experience, you have to have a look at how CT is applied to other fields to appreciate its clarity. Doing so, you

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Theory about uncurried functions

2009-03-03 Thread Achim Schneider
Peter Verswyvelen bugf...@gmail.com wrote: Lambda calculus is a nice theory in which every function always has one input and one output. Functions with multiple arguments can be simulated because functions are first class and hence a function can return a function. Multiple outputs cannot be

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Basic problem in Haskell language design?

2009-03-01 Thread Achim Schneider
Nicu Ionita nicu.ion...@acons.at wrote: Hi, Today I found the following problem when writing a simple function: -- Whole info from a word8 list to moves movesFromWord8s :: [Word8] - [Move] movesFromWord8s (f:t:ws) = (f, t) : movesFromWord8s ws moverFromWord8s _ = [] Here I made a

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell Weekly News: Issue 107 - February 28, 2009

2009-02-28 Thread Achim Schneider
Brent Yorgey byor...@seas.upenn.edu wrote: lilac: haskell's learning curve is like this: | That's an understatement. cf http://www.eve-pirate.com/uploads/LearningCurve.jpg -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect headers for copyright history. All rights reserved.

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Hidden module?

2009-02-27 Thread Achim Schneider
Cristiano Paris cristiano.pa...@gmail.com wrote: I had to append process and directory as dependencies but then it worked. How can I submit a patch to Hackage? Do I have to contact the owner? In general, just try the maintainer and/or author adresses given on hsc2hs's hackage page. I'd

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Performance question

2009-02-26 Thread Achim Schneider
Ketil Malde ke...@malde.org wrote: So it seems we're just tremendously lousy at generating random Doubles. We had this a while ago, and Don was kind enough to post some bindings to dSFMT: http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/mersenne-random-pure64-0.2.0.2 which could

[Haskell-cafe] statep haskell-lang [was: Re: Hoogle and Network.Socket]

2009-02-26 Thread Achim Schneider
John A. De Goes j...@n-brain.net wrote: Partial functions and dependent typing do not seem to play well together, for instance. Well, sure, they do, as long as you don't expect the typechecker to terminate if some type it checks is formulated in unterminating code. GHC already has this problem

[Haskell-cafe] Re: base-4 + gtk2hs-0.10.0 licensing

2009-02-26 Thread Achim Schneider
Wolfgang Jeltsch g9ks1...@acme.softbase.org wrote: Am Donnerstag, 26. Februar 2009 09:17 schrieb Ketil Malde: Peter Hercek pher...@gmail.com writes: Relinking against newer Gtk2Hs versions might not work. You have the option of recompiling the new Gtk2Hs with the old GHC and

[Haskell-cafe] Re: statep haskell-lang [was: Re: Hoogle and Network.Socket]

2009-02-26 Thread Achim Schneider
Achim Schneider bars...@web.de wrote: -calculus PiSigma calculus, that is. I really shouldn't attempt to send unicode via US-ascii. -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect headers for copyright history. All rights reserved. Copying, hiring, renting, performance

[Haskell-cafe] Re: statep haskell-lang [was: Re: Hoogle and Network.Socket]

2009-02-26 Thread Achim Schneider
John A. De Goes j...@n-brain.net wrote: What do you mean by progress? I noted before that there are tradeoffs. Constraining the evolution of the language in backward compatible ways leads to substantial improvements in tools, libraries, and the speed of compiled code. That's progress in

[Haskell-cafe] Re: statep haskell-lang [was: Re: Hoogle and Network.Socket]

2009-02-26 Thread Achim Schneider
John A. De Goes j...@n-brain.net wrote: Are you saying has been no progress since KR C in the number of libraries available to C programmers? I never did, I asked you to compare usability. If you want it in plain English, library semantics still suck, hell, there isn't even name spacing.

[Haskell-cafe] Re: statep haskell-lang [was: Re: Hoogle and Network.Socket]

2009-02-26 Thread Achim Schneider
Jonathan Cast jonathancc...@fastmail.fm wrote: IDEs are for losers Hell is freezing over: I'm actually agreeing with an editor heretic. -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect headers for copyright history. All rights reserved. Copying, hiring, renting, performance

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Coming up with a better API for Network.Socket.recv

2009-02-26 Thread Achim Schneider
Johan Tibell johan.tib...@gmail.com wrote: I'm also interested in understanding the reasons behind the design of the `recv` function in the network library. POSIX semantics. And, frankly, I'm opposed to messing with them: If you want to have different behaviour, please do a (different|wrapper)

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Coming up with a better API for Network.Socket.recv

2009-02-26 Thread Achim Schneider
Achim Schneider bars...@web.de wrote: Johan Tibell johan.tib...@gmail.com wrote: I'm also interested in understanding the reasons behind the design of the `recv` function in the network library. POSIX semantics. And, frankly, I'm opposed to messing with them: If you want to have

[Haskell-cafe] Re: statep haskell-lang [was: Re: Hoogle and Network.Socket]

2009-02-26 Thread Achim Schneider
Jonathan Cast jonathancc...@fastmail.fm wrote: (I am actually writing my own language; when I get something usable for real work, I may very well just plain un-subscribe from haskell-cafe, even though I will continue using Haskell for bootstrapping for some time after that.) /me is curious.

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Coming up with a better API for Network.Socket.recv

2009-02-26 Thread Achim Schneider
Bryan O'Sullivan b...@serpentine.com wrote: There's another problem with the network APIs: they mirror the BSD socket API too faithfully, and provide insufficient type safety. You can try to send on an unconnected socket, and to bind a socket that's already connected, both of which should be

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Coming up with a better API for Network.Socket.recv

2009-02-26 Thread Achim Schneider
Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH allb...@ece.cmu.edu wrote: On 2009 Feb 26, at 16:45, Johan Tibell wrote: definition of `recv` would look like. My current thinking is that it would mimic what C/Python/Java does and return a zero length ByteString when EOF is reached. Ew. Isn't this what Maybe

[Haskell-cafe] Re: statep haskell-lang [was: Re: Hoogle and Network.Socket]

2009-02-26 Thread Achim Schneider
Jonathan Cast jonathancc...@fastmail.fm wrote: I've been busy convincing myself I'm really trying to replace TeX, instead. After all, TeX is clearly a much less adequate programming language... That's brilliant. OTOH, remember Oedipus, who, by attempting to avoid hubris, got caught right

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Hoogle and Network.Socket

2009-02-25 Thread Achim Schneider
John Lato jwl...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 4:45 PM, Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH allb...@ece.cmu.edu wrote: On 2009 Feb 25, at 5:23, John Lato wrote: Brandon Allbery wrote: I have to second this; I'm a Unix sysadmin, 98% of the time if I'm writing a program it's for Unix

[Haskell-cafe] Re: base-4 + gtk2hs-0.10.0 licensing

2009-02-25 Thread Achim Schneider
Peter Verswyvelen bugf...@gmail.com wrote: So that is interesting. If you don't distribute a program that makes use of LPGL libs (e.g. a downloadable EXE), but you provide a remote view (in this case a web) on a server that runs that program, then the license does not apply... Oh well I

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Hoogle and Network.Socket

2009-02-25 Thread Achim Schneider
John Lato jwl...@gmail.com wrote: you should consider that your unix-dependent software will never reach over 80% of the computer users available. Now it's me... wtf? Why should I care? If those users are not even willing to bend their little finger to safe me from breaking my back attempting

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Hoogle and Network.Socket

2009-02-25 Thread Achim Schneider
John Lato jwl...@gmail.com wrote: I really don't see anything wrong with using Hoogle to increase awareness (although I would appreciate it if platform-specific packages were searched as an option). You won't hear me argue against it, in fact, I argued in favour of it. Increasing awareness of

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Hoogle and Network.Socket

2009-02-25 Thread Achim Schneider
John A. De Goes j...@n-brain.net wrote: Personally, I'd be happy to see that explosion of innovation in the library and tool spaces, even if it means the language itself stops evolving (for the most part). It will make it a lot easier do use Haskell commercially, and the innovators in

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Hoogle and Network.Socket

2009-02-25 Thread Achim Schneider
Achim Schneider bars...@web.de wrote: whatever comes first. uhhh, make that whatever comes last -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect headers for copyright history. All rights reserved. Copying, hiring, renting, performance and/or quoting of this signature

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Hoogle and Network.Socket

2009-02-25 Thread Achim Schneider
John A. De Goes j...@n-brain.net wrote: The problem is that PL research is probably not going to stop evolving in our lifetimes. Yes, that research needs a venue, but why should it be Haskell? Haskell is a good language and it's time to start benefiting from the research that's already gone

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Hoogle and Network.Socket

2009-02-23 Thread Achim Schneider
Thomas DuBuisson thomas.dubuis...@gmail.com wrote: I still prefer showing all platform results sorted into separate sections with headers, but understand that I am in the minority. You aren't alone. Labelling them prominently with POSIX, UNIX, Linux, *BSD, OSX resp. Windoze is a Good Thing:

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Hoogle and Network.Socket

2009-02-23 Thread Achim Schneider
wren ng thornton w...@freegeek.org wrote: Though, I think it might be easier to have an icon next to the search hits, rather than segregating by platform--- since segregating/sectioning runs counter to relevance ranking. While OTOH, this approach might rank low-level POSIX/Windoze libraries

[Haskell-cafe] Re: [Haskell] ANNOUNCE: X Haskell Bindings 0.2

2009-02-22 Thread Achim Schneider
Felipe Lessa felipe.le...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 2:08 AM, Antoine Latter aslat...@gmail.com wrote: The goal of XHB is to provide a Haskell implementation of the X11 wire protocol, similar in spirit to the X protocol C-language Binding (XCB). [snip] Related projects:

[Haskell-cafe] Re: The community is more important than the product

2009-02-21 Thread Achim Schneider
Don Stewart d...@galois.com wrote: http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Protect_the_community Random notes on how to maintain tone, focus and productivity in an online community I took a few years ago. Might be some material there if anyone's seeking to help ensure we remain a constructive,

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell.org GSoC

2009-02-20 Thread Achim Schneider
Kemps-Benedix Torsten torsten.kemps-bene...@sks-ub.de wrote: Hello, but to specify that ___this function turns a list into its sorted equivalent___ would probably require to specify e.g. sort in terms of the type system and to write code that actually does the sorting. The first task is

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Paper draft: Denotational design with type class morphisms

2009-02-20 Thread Achim Schneider
Conal Elliott co...@conal.net wrote: DRAFT version ___ comments please Conal, please, PLEASE, never, EVER again use the word meaning if you actually mean denotation. It confuses the hell out of me, especially the (I guess unintended) connotation that you analyse the meaning of a particular

[Haskell-cafe] Re: A typeclass for Data.Map etc?

2009-02-20 Thread Achim Schneider
wren ng thornton w...@freegeek.org wrote: (b) allows instances to have a fixed type for keys (like Data.Trie and Data.IntMap have), Can't we do some type magic to automagically select Data.Trie if the key is a (strict) bytestring? -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity.

[Haskell-cafe] Re: speed: ghc vs gcc

2009-02-20 Thread Achim Schneider
Bulat Ziganshin bulat.zigans...@gmail.com wrote: execution times: sum: ghc 6.6.1 -O2 : 12.433 secs ghc 6.10.1 -O2 : 12.792 secs sum-fast: ghc 6.6.1 -O2 : 1.919 secs ghc 6.10.1 -O2 : 1.856 secs ghc 6.10.1 -O2 -fvia-C

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Paper draft: Denotational design with type class morphisms

2009-02-20 Thread Achim Schneider
Robin Green gree...@greenrd.org wrote: On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 15:17:14 +0100 Achim Schneider bars...@web.de wrote: Conal Elliott co...@conal.net wrote: DRAFT version ___ comments please Conal, please, PLEASE, never, EVER again use the word meaning if you actually mean denotation

[Haskell-cafe] Re: speed: ghc vs gcc

2009-02-20 Thread Achim Schneider
Bulat Ziganshin bulat.zigans...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Achim, Friday, February 20, 2009, 5:44:44 PM, you wrote: Nice! Now we know that gcc can calculate faster than Haskell can calculate and print. Next time, use exitWith, please. it was done in order to simplify sources. are you

[Haskell-cafe] Re: speed: ghc vs gcc

2009-02-20 Thread Achim Schneider
Bulat Ziganshin bulat.zigans...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Peter, Friday, February 20, 2009, 6:34:04 PM, you wrote: Well C# does it with a for loop in 2300ms, and when using a IEnumerable sequence it needs__19936ms. Very much like the Haskell code. But of course the Haskell code could

[Haskell-cafe] Re: speed: ghc vs gcc

2009-02-20 Thread Achim Schneider
Don Stewart d...@galois.com wrote: No! This is not how open source works! You *should submit bug reports* and *analysis*. It is so so much more useful than complaining and throwing stones. Exactly. I don't know where, but I read that the vast majorities of Linux bugs are reported, nailed, and

[Haskell-cafe] Re: speed: ghc vs gcc

2009-02-20 Thread Achim Schneider
Don Stewart d...@galois.com wrote: (The bang patterns aren't needed). Note how he counts backwards from 10^9. Was there a reason for that, Bulat? Tests against zero are faster, as you don't need a second operand... by now, some platforms might be smart enough, but down-counting in loops is

[Haskell-cafe] Re: speed: ghc vs gcc

2009-02-20 Thread Achim Schneider
Bulat Ziganshin bulat.zigans...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Claus, Friday, February 20, 2009, 11:15:59 PM, you wrote: Turning this into a ticket with associated test will: but why you think that this is untypical and needs a ticket? ;) Bulat, you are right in every aspect. You never did

[Haskell-cafe] Re: speed: ghc vs gcc

2009-02-20 Thread Achim Schneider
Bulat Ziganshin bulat.zigans...@gmail.com wrote: so - why YOU think that ghc generates fast code and this example is something unusual? I think ghc has decent performance, and that there's room for improvement. I don't care whether you compare it to gcc, malbolge, or hand-written assembly,

[Haskell-cafe] Re: speed: ghc vs gcc

2009-02-20 Thread Achim Schneider
Bryan O'Sullivan b...@serpentine.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Achim Schneider bars...@web.de wrote: Bulat, you are right in every aspect. You never did anything wrong. Back when you debugged your code all night long, you were only dreaming. Achim, this doesn't

[Haskell-cafe] Re: speed: ghc vs gcc

2009-02-20 Thread Achim Schneider
Bulat Ziganshin bulat.zigans...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Don, Saturday, February 21, 2009, 12:43:46 AM, you wrote: gcc -O3 -funroll-loops 0.318 ghc -funroll-loops -D64 0.088 So what did we learn here? nothing new: what you are not

[Haskell-cafe] Re: speed: ghc vs gcc

2009-02-20 Thread Achim Schneider
Bulat Ziganshin bulat.zigans...@gmail.com wrote: but problem - not mine, but for haskellers, is that some people said that ghc can generate code that is as fast as gcc one. it will be stupid if someone will start to write say mpeg4 codec and after year of work will find that it need 100 Ghz

[Haskell-cafe] Re: speed: ghc vs gcc

2009-02-20 Thread Achim Schneider
Khudyakov Alexey alexey.sklad...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday 20 February 2009 16:29:29 Bulat Ziganshin wrote: Hello haskell-cafe, since there are no objective tests comparing ghc to gcc, i made my own one. these are 3 programs, calculating sum in c++ and haskell: main = print $

[Haskell-cafe] Re: speed: ghc vs gcc

2009-02-20 Thread Achim Schneider
Peter Verswyvelen bugf...@gmail.com wrote: nothing should stop you from writing video games in Haskell Show me a studio that uses Haskell and I'd even accept dollars or pounds as payment. -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect headers for copyright history. All rights

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Bug in Cabal?

2009-02-18 Thread Achim Schneider
Andrea Vezzosi sanzhi...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 11:50 PM, Achim Schneider bars...@web.de wrote: Martin Huschenbett hus...@gmx.org wrote: $ cabal install ghci-haskeline Resolving dependencies... cabal.exe: dependencies conflict: ghc-6.10.1 requires process ==1.0.1.1

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Bug in Cabal?

2009-02-17 Thread Achim Schneider
Martin Huschenbett hus...@gmx.org wrote: $ cabal install ghci-haskeline Resolving dependencies... cabal.exe: dependencies conflict: ghc-6.10.1 requires process ==1.0.1.1 however process-1.0.1.1 was excluded because ghc-6.10.1 requires process ==1.0.1.0 cabal uninstall process-1.0.1.1 is

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Race condition possible?

2009-02-15 Thread Achim Schneider
Peter Verswyvelen bugf...@gmail.com wrote: Time on different cores does not progress monotonically Two cores executing the same code are not guaranteed to finish them in the same time span, due to caching, temperature, voltage jaggies, quantum-mechanic inference, ... -- (c) this sig last

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haddock Markup

2009-02-13 Thread Achim Schneider
What about making a SoC out of the problem? A mathematical markup language that is easily written as well as valid Haskell, executable within reason, compilable into mathML (think backticks) and would revolutionise the typeset quality of literate programming? -- (c) this sig last receiving data

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Language popularity

2009-02-13 Thread Achim Schneider
Ketil Malde ke...@malde.org wrote: Henk-Jan van Tuyl hjgt...@chello.nl writes: My own research, using Google: Search Hits --- Java programming 20.400.000 LOGO programming 14.600.000 I get about that number of hits googling for logo

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Writing a generic event handler

2009-02-12 Thread Achim Schneider
John Ky newho...@gmail.com wrote: My question is: Is it possible to write a generic doLoop that works over arbitrary functions? Yes and no, that is, you can overcome the no. The following code typechecks, and would run nicely if there was a fixed version of reactive, by now[1]. Event handlers

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell.org GSoC

2009-02-12 Thread Achim Schneider
Wolfgang Jeltsch g9ks1...@acme.softbase.org wrote: Am Mittwoch, 11. Februar 2009 18:51 schrieb Don Stewart: For example, if all the haddocks on hackage.org were a wiki, and interlinked, every single package author would benefit, as would all users. You mean, everyone should be able to

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell.org GSoC

2009-02-12 Thread Achim Schneider
Wolfgang Jeltsch g9ks1...@acme.softbase.org wrote: Am Donnerstag, 12. Februar 2009 09:20 schrieb Achim Schneider: Wolfgang Jeltsch g9ks1...@acme.softbase.org wrote: Am Mittwoch, 11. Februar 2009 18:51 schrieb Don Stewart: For example, if all the haddocks on hackage.org were a wiki

[Haskell-cafe] Re: [Haskell] Google Summer of Code 2009

2009-02-12 Thread Achim Schneider
Jamie hask...@datakids.org wrote: On Thu, 12 Feb 2009, Conrad Parker wrote: 2009/2/12 Don Stewart d...@galois.com: Thanks for the analysis, this clarifies things greatly. Feasibility and scope is a big part of how we determine what projects to work on. I agree that it's beyond

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Graph library, was: Haskell.org GSoC

2009-02-12 Thread Achim Schneider
Daniel Kraft d...@domob.eu wrote: Don Stewart wrote: - Graphs. True graphs (the data structure) are still a weak point! There's no canonical graph library for Haskell. That sounds interesting... What do you mean by no canonical library? Are there already ones but just no standard

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Is using Data.Dynamic considered a no-go?

2009-02-12 Thread Achim Schneider
Peter Verswyvelen bugf...@gmail.com wrote: Haskell seems to have pretty strong support for dynamic casting using Data.Typeable and Data.Dynamic. All kinds of funky dynamic programming seems to be possible with these hacks. Is this considered as being as bad as - say - unsafePerformIO? What

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Can this be done?

2009-02-11 Thread Achim Schneider
Evan Laforge qdun...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:34 PM, Alistair Bayley alist...@abayley.org wrote: 2009/2/11 Cristiano Paris cristiano.pa...@gmail.com: I wonder whether this can be done in Haskell (see muleherd's comment):

[Haskell-cafe] Re: [Haskell] Google Summer of Code 2009

2009-02-11 Thread Achim Schneider
Bulat Ziganshin bulat.zigans...@gmail.com wrote: impossible impossible, adj: 1) admittance of loosing an argument 2) tease to make someone do something -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect headers for copyright history. All rights reserved. Copying, hiring,

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Can this be done?

2009-02-11 Thread Achim Schneider
Sebastian Sylvan syl...@student.chalmers.se wrote: On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 5:41 PM, Achim Schneider bars...@web.de wrote: I got curious and made two pages point to each other, resulting in as many stale continuations as your left mouse button would permit. While the model certainly

[Haskell-cafe] How to properly design a Haskell TK

2009-02-06 Thread Achim Schneider
I've been thinking a bit, and come to the conclusion that we should just do it as others did it before: Start off with application-specific tk's, figure out what's cool and what's compatible and then put them into libraries. In short: Stop building cathedrals. -- (c) this sig last receiving data

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell tutorial for pseudo users?

2009-02-06 Thread Achim Schneider
Jonathan Cast jonathancc...@fastmail.fm wrote: Konsole ctrl+shift+f, incremental, all matches highlight, case (in)sensitive, regexen. Konsole 2.1 (KDE 4.1.2), that is. I'd use its tab support, but I have xmonad. In fact, it comes with a nice editor: I just have to type vi. -- (c) this sig

[Haskell-cafe] Re: evaluation semantics of bind

2009-02-05 Thread Achim Schneider
Gregg Reynolds d...@mobileink.com wrote: getChar = \x - getChar An optimizer can see that the result of the first getChar is discarded It isn't discarded. The first getChar results in a value of type IO Char, always and ever. Whether or not the Char inside the IO Char gets evaluated or

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Just how unsafe is unsafe

2009-02-05 Thread Achim Schneider
Peter Verswyvelen bugf...@gmail.com wrote: I do have asked myself the question whether a really random generating function could be regarded as pure somehow (actually would a true random function still be a mathematical function?) Wasn't there some agreement some time ago on this list that

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell tutorial for pseudo users?

2009-02-05 Thread Achim Schneider
Jonathan Cast jonathancc...@fastmail.fm wrote: On Mon, 2009-02-02 at 20:55 +, Andrew Coppin wrote: Deniz Dogan wrote: Learn You a Haskell for Great Good (http://learnyouahaskell.com/) Mmm, interesting. Does anybody else think it would be neat if GHCi really did colourise

[Haskell-cafe] GUI semantics [was: Achim ranting]

2009-02-03 Thread Achim Schneider
First of all, thanks. I had almost judged the cafe to be unable to discuss any UI issue except rendering backends. Fraser Wilson blancoli...@gmail.com wrote: You know, I read the Fudgets thesis, and threw together an experiment which used Glade for layout and Haskell for semantics [1]. As

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Elegant powerful replacement for CSS

2009-02-03 Thread Achim Schneider
wren ng thornton w...@freegeek.org wrote: I can see LaTeX as demonstrating that there is no such (single) language. It seems to me that the elementary units (chapters, sections, paragraphs,...) depend almost entirely on the domain of the document (a book, an article,...). This is what I had

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Elegant powerful replacement for CSS

2009-02-03 Thread Achim Schneider
Malcolm Wallace malcolm.wall...@cs.york.ac.uk wrote: I would go with Bret Victor's argument (http://worrydream.com/ MagicInk/) that the concept of user interface as primarily _interaction_ is misguided. I tend to disagree. But then I'm a game developer, not an HTML monk... what definitely

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Elegant powerful replacement for CSS

2009-02-03 Thread Achim Schneider
Conal Elliott co...@conal.net wrote: [Spin-off from the haskell-cafe discussion on functional/denotational GUI toolkits] I've been wondering for a while now what a well-designed alternative to CSS could be, where well-designed would mean consistent, composable, orthogonal, functional,

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Why binding to existing widget toolkits doesn't make any sense

2009-02-02 Thread Achim Schneider
Stephen Tetley stephen.tet...@gmail.com wrote: Also, Shiva-VG - http://sourceforge.net/projects/shivavg - the implementation of OpenVG that the Haskell binding works with supports OpenVG 1.0.1, so it doesn't handle text at all. You know, if the Haskell bindings are compositable enough, it

[Haskell-cafe] Re: circular dependencies in cabal

2009-02-02 Thread Achim Schneider
Duncan Coutts duncan.cou...@worc.ox.ac.uk wrote: That is probably how people are getting into this mess. Using upgrade is not necessarily such a good idea. It does not distinguish between the interesting packages you might want to upgrade and the core packages that your probably do not want

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Why binding to existing widget toolkits doesn't make any sense

2009-02-02 Thread Achim Schneider
John A. De Goes j...@n-brain.net wrote: How do you define layout in a way that has a direct an enormous effect on interaction semantics??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faJ8N0giqzw -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect headers for copyright history. All rights

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Why binding to existing widget toolkits doesn't make any sense

2009-02-02 Thread Achim Schneider
John A. De Goes j...@n-brain.net wrote: Perhaps I should have been more precise: How do you define layout and interaction semantics in such a way that the former has a *necessarily* direct, enormous impact on the latter? HTML/CSS is a perfect example of how one can decouple a model

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Why binding to existing widget toolkits doesn't make any sense

2009-01-31 Thread Achim Schneider
Conal Elliott co...@conal.net wrote: In the process, I realized more clearly that the *very goal* of making a purely functional wrapper around an imperative library leads to muddled thinking. It's easy to hide the IO without really eliminating it from the semantics, especially if the goal is

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Why binding to existing widget toolkits doesn't make any sense

2009-01-31 Thread Achim Schneider
Peter Verswyvelen bugf...@gmail.com wrote: I should have mentioned that my tests have been done only on Windows and OSX. I guess I would have to try on a system that supports XRender to compare. Unfortunately, the target audience of our application are mostly windows and OSX users, so

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Why binding to existing widget toolkits doesn't make any sense

2009-01-31 Thread Achim Schneider
Claus Reinke claus.rei...@talk21.com wrote: though software fallbacks for missing hardware support would seem essential You mean having widget renderers that don't use any of those frills, don't you? Don't underestimate the breath of the target audience that wants to run things on their

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Standard C available in cabal package

2009-01-30 Thread Achim Schneider
Maurcio briqueabra...@yahoo.com wrote: Supposed I wanted to write a module with all C functions always available, what could I let be there? POSIX? -- (c) this sig last receiving data processing entity. Inspect headers for copyright history. All rights reserved. Copying, hiring,

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Standard C available in cabal package

2009-01-30 Thread Achim Schneider
Maurcio briqueabra...@yahoo.com wrote: Achim Schneider a __crit : Maurcio briqueabra...@yahoo.com wrote: Supposed I wanted to write a module with all C functions always available, what could I let be there? POSIX? Is that portable for non-unix? I think cabal does

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Why binding to existing widget toolkits doesn't make any sense

2009-01-30 Thread Achim Schneider
Antony Courtney antony.court...@gmail.com wrote: One issue I think you may encounter, though, is that last time I looked, there was still no high-quality, widely available cross-platform 2-D vector graphics library in C or C++! [...] Xrender. It appears to map exceptionally well onto FP, is

[Haskell-cafe] Re: Why binding to existing widget toolkits doesn't make any sense

2009-01-30 Thread Achim Schneider
Antony Courtney antony.court...@gmail.com wrote: Pretty clear how to build a 2-D Scenegraph library like Piccolo on top of Java2D or Quartz or GDI+; much less clear to me how to build something like that directly on top of XRender. I intended the scene graph to be implemented piece-wise

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