Re: [Haskell-cafe] Somewhat random history question - chicken and egg

2007-11-13 Thread Jacques Carette
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But... tell me please, ANYONE, who takes part in this inspiring exchange: How many COBOL programs have you written in your life? How many programs in Cobol have you actually SEEN? Shudder. In '86, I had to modify a COBOL code generator, *written in COBOL*. The

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Somewhat random history question - chicken and egg

2007-11-12 Thread Tony Finch
On Sun, 11 Nov 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To be a true COBOL replacement, I think that one very important feature is that it is link-compatible with existing COBOL code. You're never going to be able to replace a 6MLOC COBOL monster in any manner other than piecemeal. AFAIK people are

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Somewhat random history question - chicken and egg

2007-11-11 Thread Henning Thielemann
On Sun, 11 Nov 2007, Andrew Coppin wrote: Somebody just asked me ...if GHC is written in Haskell, how the heck did they compile GHC in the first place? ... and what happens, if they add a new feature, use it in the compiler itself, and then it turns out, that the implementation of the new

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Somewhat random history question - chicken and egg

2007-11-11 Thread Neil Mitchell
Hi ...if GHC is written in Haskell, how the heck did they compile GHC in the first place? GHC was not the first Haskell compiler, hbc was the main compiler at some point, so I suspect they used hbc. There was also lazy ML which I suspect was used to bootstrap hbc - but I'm not sure of the

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Somewhat random history question - chicken and egg

2007-11-11 Thread Brent Yorgey
GHC can be compiled with GHC 5.0 (or something around there). If they add a new feature, they don't use it in GHC for years and years. *Can* be compiled with GHC 5.0, or *is* compiled? http://haskell.org/ghc/docs/6.8.1/html/users_guide/release-6-8-1.html says that the pointer tagging in 6.8.1

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Somewhat random history question - chicken and egg

2007-11-11 Thread Neil Mitchell
Hi GHC can be compiled with GHC 5.0 (or something around there). If they add a new feature, they don't use it in GHC for years and years. *Can* be compiled with GHC 5.0, or *is* compiled? Can. If a feature goes horribly wrong, or a build is entirely broken in some subtle but fundamental

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Somewhat random history question - chicken and egg

2007-11-11 Thread Duncan Coutts
On Sun, 2007-11-11 at 07:43 -0500, Brent Yorgey wrote: GHC can be compiled with GHC 5.0 (or something around there). If they add a new feature, they don't use it in GHC for years and years. *Can* be compiled with GHC 5.0, or *is* compiled? Can. The version

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Somewhat random history question - chicken and egg

2007-11-11 Thread Stefan O'Rear
On Sun, Nov 11, 2007 at 11:07:29AM +, Neil Mitchell wrote: Hi ...if GHC is written in Haskell, how the heck did they compile GHC in the first place? GHC was not the first Haskell compiler, hbc was the main compiler at some point, so I suspect they used hbc. There was also lazy ML

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Somewhat random history question - chicken and egg

2007-11-11 Thread Dan Piponi
This isn't a question specific to ghc. In general, the process of bootstrapping compilers and porting them to new platforms can be described by T-diagrams. When I did a web search on T-diagrams the first hit I found,

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Somewhat random history question - chicken and egg

2007-11-11 Thread Andrew Coppin
Dan Piponi wrote: This isn't a question specific to ghc. Most certainly not. ;-) (Well, except that I asked where did GHC come from, which is pretty GHC-specific.) However, it seems the general point of confusion is that writing (say) a minimally-working C compiler intuitively seems quite

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Somewhat random history question - chicken and egg

2007-11-11 Thread Andrew Coppin
Neil Mitchell wrote: Hi bear no resemblence to any machine-level constructs, and it seems unthinkable that you could possibly write such a compiler in anything but Haskell itself. Hugs is written in C. Really? :-. Well anyway, I didn't say it can't be done - I said it *looks*

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Somewhat random history question - chicken and egg

2007-11-11 Thread Neil Mitchell
Hi bear no resemblence to any machine-level constructs, and it seems unthinkable that you could possibly write such a compiler in anything but Haskell itself. Hugs is written in C. Really? :-. Really :-) (Seriously, how big is Hugs? It must be quite large...) 56111 lines, with

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Somewhat random history question - chicken and egg

2007-11-11 Thread Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH
On Nov 11, 2007, at 12:16 , Andrew Coppin wrote: However, it seems the general point of confusion is that writing (say) a minimally-working C compiler intuitively seems quite easy (after all, C is an extremely low-level language), whereas the constructs in Haskell bear no resemblence to

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Somewhat random history question - chicken and egg

2007-11-11 Thread Brent Yorgey
Expressiveness certainly makes it easier, but nothing (other than sanity...) stops you from writing a Haskell compiler in, say, COBOL. *I* would stop you. Friends don't let friends write in COBOL. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Somewhat random history question - chicken and egg

2007-11-11 Thread Felipe Lessa
On Nov 11, 2007 7:00 PM, Brent Yorgey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Expressiveness certainly makes it easier, but nothing (other than sanity...) stops you from writing a Haskell compiler in, say, COBOL. *I* would stop you. Friends don't let friends write in COBOL. +1 QOTW =) -- Felipe.

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Somewhat random history question - chicken and egg

2007-11-11 Thread Andrew Coppin
Brent Yorgey wrote: Expressiveness certainly makes it easier, but nothing (other than sanity...) stops you from writing a Haskell compiler in, say, COBOL. *I* would stop you. Friends don't let friends write in COBOL. That's the funniest thing I've read today. You literally just

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Somewhat random history question - chicken and egg

2007-11-11 Thread jerzy . karczmarczuk
Andrew Coppin writes: Brent Yorgey wrote: Expressiveness certainly makes it easier, but nothing (other than sanity...) stops you from writing a Haskell compiler in, say, COBOL. *I* would stop you. Friends don't let friends write in COBOL. That's the funniest thing I've read

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Somewhat random history question - chicken and egg

2007-11-11 Thread Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH
On Nov 11, 2007, at 17:26 , [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andrew Coppin writes: Brent Yorgey wrote: Expressiveness certainly makes it easier, but nothing (other than sanity...) stops you from writing a Haskell compiler in, say, COBOL. *I* would stop you. Friends don't let friends

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Somewhat random history question - chicken and egg

2007-11-11 Thread Brent Yorgey
I would be the last who wanted to spoil such a good joke. But... tell me please, ANYONE, who takes part in this inspiring exchange: How many COBOL programs have you written in your life? How many programs in Cobol have you actually SEEN? My current project at work has a bunch of legacy

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Somewhat random history question - chicken and egg

2007-11-11 Thread ajb
G'day all. Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: But... tell me please, ANYONE, who takes part in this inspiring exchange: How many COBOL programs have you written in your life? As you well know, only one COBOL program has ever been written. The rest are just modifications of it. Actually, a more

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Somewhat random history question - chicken and egg

2007-11-11 Thread Henning Thielemann
On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: G'day all. Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: But... tell me please, ANYONE, who takes part in this inspiring exchange: How many COBOL programs have you written in your life? As you well know, only one COBOL program has ever been written. The rest

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Somewhat random history question - chicken and egg

2007-11-11 Thread Bernie Pope
On 12/11/2007, at 4:32 AM, Neil Mitchell wrote: Hi bear no resemblence to any machine-level constructs, and it seems unthinkable that you could possibly write such a compiler in anything but Haskell itself. Hugs is written in C. Really? :-. Really :-) (Seriously, how big is

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Somewhat random history question - chicken and egg

2007-11-11 Thread Bernie Pope
On 12/11/2007, at 9:26 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But... tell me please, ANYONE, who takes part in this inspiring exchange: How many COBOL programs have you written in your life? How many programs in Cobol have you actually SEEN? I saw a lot of COBOL when I worked for a stock broking

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Somewhat random history question - chicken and egg

2007-11-11 Thread ajb
G'day all. I asked: Actually, a more interesting problem is what you'd replace COBOL with, and how you'd go about it. Wouldn't it be nice if there was a modern language that you could write or rewrite new parts of your COBOL application in, and it all worked seamlessly with what you already

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Somewhat random history question - chicken and egg

2007-11-11 Thread jerzy . karczmarczuk
Henning Thielemann: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ... tell me please: How many COBOL programs have you written in your life? As you well know, only one COBOL program has ever been written. The rest are just modifications of it. Actually, a more interesting

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Somewhat random history question - chicken and egg

2007-11-11 Thread Michael Vanier
Bernie Pope wrote: On 12/11/2007, at 4:32 AM, Neil Mitchell wrote: Hi bear no resemblence to any machine-level constructs, and it seems unthinkable that you could possibly write such a compiler in anything but Haskell itself. Hugs is written in C. Really? :-. Really :-)

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Somewhat random history question - chicken and egg

2007-11-11 Thread Michael Vanier
I have a copy of COBOL for Dummies which I bought as a joke and have never dared read. Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andrew Coppin writes: Brent Yorgey wrote: Expressiveness certainly makes it easier, but nothing (other than sanity...) stops you from writing a Haskell compiler in,

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Somewhat random history question - chicken and egg

2007-11-11 Thread Bernie Pope
On 12/11/2007, at 4:08 PM, Michael Vanier wrote: Bernie Pope wrote: If I remember correctly, the early versions of the Clean compiler were written in C. Then at some stage they re-wrote it in Clean. You could say they cleaned it up. It was a dirty job, but now it is self cleaning.