Re: [Haskell-cafe] What is the maturity of Haskell Web Frameworks
On Wed, Jun 04, 2008 at 10:30:49PM -0400, Paul L wrote: Pardon me to hijack this thread, but I have an idea to build a different kind of Web Framework and am not sure if somebody has already done it. Have a look at iTasks, written in Clean. Not *quite* Haskell, I know, but close enough. I does what you suggest, it does what the OP suggested (assigning tasks to people etc) and much more. For example, read the following ICFP paper: http://www.st.cs.ru.nl/papers/2007/plar2007-ICFP07-iTasks.pdf Edsko ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] What is the maturity of Haskell Web Frameworks
Duncan Coutts wrote: On Tue, 2008-06-03 at 10:23 -0700, Don Stewart wrote: A new version of happs was written on a Monday a couple of months ago, using fastcgi and takusen. We're running it at galois, and you can find the code on code.haskell.org/hpaste. So not quite what you wanted, but another data point. That's very interesting. I hope we will also see a version with the same feature set implemented with the latest HAppS. It would give an interesting comparison of the web frameworks to see the same app implemented in both. I haven't looked at that particular version, but when I last looked at web frameworks, I was somewhat disappointed. HAppS seemed to have little documentation on the current version anyhow, and especially little coverage on what to do if your app revolved around serving data from an existing SQL database or other data source rather than its own. hvac sounds interesting but at that time at least it was not clear whether it was stable or would continue to be maintained. xhtml and HStringTemplate were overkill for what I wanted, so I wound up just using the FastCGI and CGI toolkits themselves. They are surprisingly nice, and with a little bit of wrappers around them for things like validating forms, have worked exceptionally well. My needs for that project were not complex, the layout was not very important, and the presentation never changes (only the business logic). So I understand that my needs may have been opposite from what most people face. -- John ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] What is the maturity of Haskell Web Frameworks
hvac sounds interesting but at that time at least it was not clear whether it was stable or would continue to be maintained. xhtml and HStringTemplate were overkill for what I wanted, so I wound up just using the FastCGI and CGI toolkits themselves. They are surprisingly nice, and with a little bit of wrappers around them for things like validating forms, have worked exceptionally well. I'm in a position now where I can make a reasonable promise that hvac will not only be maintained but undergoing continued development. I just, for example, hooked in some basic postgresql support yesterday (although the changes are not tested/pushed to the repo yet). (Speaking of which, I noticed that the HDBC postgresql bindings don't set seState on an error -- is this intentional, or something that should be fixed up?) As such though, I also can't promise that hvac as it stands is officially stable, although most work I imagine that will be done on it will consist of extensions rather than API-breaking changes. I've also been working on a lightweight testing API for programs using the CGI monad, integrated with quickcheck. Although this project isn't final yet either, there's a working repo at http:// code.haskell.org/~sclv/cgicheck/ if anyone wants to play with it/use it. I plan to use this quite a bit to test hvac, and any applications produced using it. Additionally, the hvac code now has a nice, though also incomplete orm/dsl-type library for database access (also built on top of HDBC). When I feel more confident/polished in the code there, I plan to split it out and hackage it as well. Of course, folks with a little time/inclination who play with these things a bit and put them through the paces are a big help in working out the kinks such that I feel they're closer to release- quality (even if that release *is* only 0.1). :-) Relatedly, I'd be very interested in developing a single common library for encoding/escaping/decoding/unescaping of common web formats (urls, javascript, basic xss escaping, rss-valid character escapes to html-valid ones, etc.) that uses a lightweight invertible combinator approach as described in Pierce's work on lenses (various papers at http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~harmony/) such that the encode/ decode methods are correct-by-construction bijections. There are various encoding bits scattered among the Haskell web libraries at the moment, each with varying degrees of correctness and conformance. It would be nice to direct energy here to a single centralized project, which would have some upfront architecture, and then, unfortunately, probably no small degree of spec-translation. If anyone else is interested in working on such a thing, I'd be delighted for ideas/collaboration (or better yet, if someone just picked up the idea and ran with it themselves!) (hmm... maybe galois has some internal libraries it wouldn't mind sharing as a partial basis?) Regards, Sterl. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] What is the maturity of Haskell Web Frameworks
s.clover: hvac sounds interesting but at that time at least it was not clear whether it was stable or would continue to be maintained. xhtml and HStringTemplate were overkill for what I wanted, so I wound up just using the FastCGI and CGI toolkits themselves. They are surprisingly nice, and with a little bit of wrappers around them for things like validating forms, have worked exceptionally well. I'm in a position now where I can make a reasonable promise that hvac will not only be maintained but undergoing continued development. I just, for example, hooked in some basic postgresql support yesterday (although the changes are not tested/pushed to the repo yet). (Speaking of which, I noticed that the HDBC postgresql bindings don't set seState on an error -- is this intentional, or something that should be fixed up?) Sterling, Would you like to add some text on hvac and your other web libs to our web programming wiki/faq, http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Practical_web_programming_in_Haskell Ideally, in a few months time, with enough additions, the full story will be covered on this wiki page, and it will be a great boon to developers wanting to work in Haskell, in this hot area. -- Don ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] What is the maturity of Haskell Web Frameworks
Sterling Clover wrote: hvac sounds interesting but at that time at least it was not clear whether it was stable or would continue to be maintained. xhtml and HStringTemplate were overkill for what I wanted, so I wound up just using the FastCGI and CGI toolkits themselves. They are surprisingly nice, and with a little bit of wrappers around them for things like validating forms, have worked exceptionally well. I'm in a position now where I can make a reasonable promise that hvac will not only be maintained but undergoing continued development. I just, for example, hooked in some basic postgresql support yesterday (although the changes are not tested/pushed to the repo yet). (Speaking of which, I noticed that the HDBC postgresql bindings don't set seState on an error -- is this intentional, or something that should be fixed up?) That would be a bug, I think. Could you submit it over at software.complete.org, ideally with test code? (Even more ideally, with a patch grin) -- John ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] What is the maturity of Haskell Web Frameworks
Pardon me to hijack this thread, but I have an idea to build a different kind of Web Framework and am not sure if somebody has already done it. The idea is to take REST further: every HTML page you see is a program in its running state (as a continuation monad). Each click on its link or form submission is seen as feeding data to resume its continuation. So instead of writing a server-side program that responds to many CGI calls, you write a single ordinary program that describe the application logic, which during its execution gets represented as a HTML page and interpreted by the server. The server is then very much like a VM or an interpreter of an embedded language, with execution stacks entirely encoded and stored in each HTML page sent to the user and back from the user as an encoded URL or form data. So the server is entirely stateless. Besides providing scalability, the main advantage of this framework is that web program can be written in a natural way which total ignores stuffs like HTTP/CGI, protocol, session, client-server, etc, etc. Its compiler or interpreter will figure out what part of the program data (e.g. the code, the static environment) resides on the server side, and what part is encoded into the HTML pages (e.g., the heap, the dynamic environment). Does such a beast exist or am I entirely day dreaming? ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] What is the maturity of Haskell Web Frameworks
On 2008 Jun 4, at 22:30, Paul L wrote: The server is then very much like a VM or an interpreter of an embedded language, with execution stacks entirely encoded and stored in each HTML page sent to the user and back from the user as an encoded URL or form data. So the server is entirely stateless. Mmm, if any of that HTML-stored state is sensitive server information, this becomes a problem. (E.g. can I trick your application into thinking I'm an admin and then go starting/stopping processes, changing passwords. etc.?) You need to use extra care if anything sensitive is put where the client can munge it. -- brandon s. allbery [solaris,freebsd,perl,pugs,haskell] [EMAIL PROTECTED] system administrator [openafs,heimdal,too many hats] [EMAIL PROTECTED] electrical and computer engineering, carnegie mellon universityKF8NH ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] What is the maturity of Haskell Web Frameworks
Note however that hpaste runs off an earlier version of HAppS, which has changed radically from v8 to v9. I seem to remember discussion of porting hpaste to the latest HAppS as a demo app... are there still plans to do that? Thomas. 2008/6/2 Don Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED]: aditya_siram: I am building a web-app that, in broad strokes, allows a leader to assign tasks to team members and allows team members to accept/reject/pick tasks that they want to do. I really like Haskell and I would like to use it to implement the solution. Are frameworks like Happs ready? Not so much in terms of documentation, but in functionality and stability. HAppS is nice (see hpaste.org for example, which is nice and simple, and has been running for over a year). Another nice option in Haskell is using something like HStringTemplate or the xhtml combinators with fastcgi hooked into GHC's concurrency mechanisms. You can find *many* more things here, http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/pkg-list.html#cat:Network http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/pkg-list.html#cat:Web ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] What is the maturity of Haskell Web Frameworks
note to the curious that this is a git and not a darcs repo git clone http://code.haskell.org/hpaste.git thomas. 2008/6/3 Don Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED]: A new version of happs was written on a Monday a couple of months ago, using fastcgi and takusen. We're running it at galois, and you can find the code on code.haskell.org/hpaste. So not quite what you wanted, but another data point. -- Don tphyahoo: Note however that hpaste runs off an earlier version of HAppS, which has changed radically from v8 to v9. I seem to remember discussion of porting hpaste to the latest HAppS as a demo app... are there still plans to do that? Thomas. 2008/6/2 Don Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED]: aditya_siram: I am building a web-app that, in broad strokes, allows a leader to assign tasks to team members and allows team members to accept/reject/pick tasks that they want to do. I really like Haskell and I would like to use it to implement the solution. Are frameworks like Happs ready? Not so much in terms of documentation, but in functionality and stability. HAppS is nice (see hpaste.org for example, which is nice and simple, and has been running for over a year). Another nice option in Haskell is using something like HStringTemplate or the xhtml combinators with fastcgi hooked into GHC's concurrency mechanisms. You can find *many* more things here, http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/pkg-list.html#cat:Network http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/pkg-list.html#cat:Web ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] What is the maturity of Haskell Web Frameworks
Ah yes, the url was incorrect. Well spotted. tphyahoo: note to the curious that this is a git and not a darcs repo git clone http://code.haskell.org/hpaste.git thomas. 2008/6/3 Don Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED]: A new version of happs was written on a Monday a couple of months ago, using fastcgi and takusen. We're running it at galois, and you can find the code on code.haskell.org/hpaste. So not quite what you wanted, but another data point. -- Don tphyahoo: Note however that hpaste runs off an earlier version of HAppS, which has changed radically from v8 to v9. I seem to remember discussion of porting hpaste to the latest HAppS as a demo app... are there still plans to do that? Thomas. 2008/6/2 Don Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED]: aditya_siram: I am building a web-app that, in broad strokes, allows a leader to assign tasks to team members and allows team members to accept/reject/pick tasks that they want to do. I really like Haskell and I would like to use it to implement the solution. Are frameworks like Happs ready? Not so much in terms of documentation, but in functionality and stability. HAppS is nice (see hpaste.org for example, which is nice and simple, and has been running for over a year). Another nice option in Haskell is using something like HStringTemplate or the xhtml combinators with fastcgi hooked into GHC's concurrency mechanisms. You can find *many* more things here, http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/pkg-list.html#cat:Network http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/pkg-list.html#cat:Web ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] What is the maturity of Haskell Web Frameworks
A new version of happs was written on a Monday a couple of months ago, using fastcgi and takusen. We're running it at galois, and you can find the code on code.haskell.org/hpaste. So not quite what you wanted, but another data point. -- Don tphyahoo: Note however that hpaste runs off an earlier version of HAppS, which has changed radically from v8 to v9. I seem to remember discussion of porting hpaste to the latest HAppS as a demo app... are there still plans to do that? Thomas. 2008/6/2 Don Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED]: aditya_siram: I am building a web-app that, in broad strokes, allows a leader to assign tasks to team members and allows team members to accept/reject/pick tasks that they want to do. I really like Haskell and I would like to use it to implement the solution. Are frameworks like Happs ready? Not so much in terms of documentation, but in functionality and stability. HAppS is nice (see hpaste.org for example, which is nice and simple, and has been running for over a year). Another nice option in Haskell is using something like HStringTemplate or the xhtml combinators with fastcgi hooked into GHC's concurrency mechanisms. You can find *many* more things here, http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/pkg-list.html#cat:Network http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/pkg-list.html#cat:Web ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] What is the maturity of Haskell Web Frameworks
On Tue, 2008-06-03 at 10:23 -0700, Don Stewart wrote: A new version of happs was written on a Monday a couple of months ago, using fastcgi and takusen. We're running it at galois, and you can find the code on code.haskell.org/hpaste. So not quite what you wanted, but another data point. That's very interesting. I hope we will also see a version with the same feature set implemented with the latest HAppS. It would give an interesting comparison of the web frameworks to see the same app implemented in both. Duncan ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] What is the maturity of Haskell Web Frameworks
I am building a web-app that, in broad strokes, allows a leader to assign tasks to team members and allows team members to accept/reject/pick tasks that they want to do. I really like Haskell and I would like to use it to implement the solution. Are frameworks like Happs ready? Not so much in terms of documentation, but in functionality and stability. -Deech _ Give to a good cause with every e-mail. Join the i’m Initiative from Microsoft. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx?souce=EML_WL_ GoodCause___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] What is the maturity of Haskell Web Frameworks
On Mon, Jun 02, 2008 at 09:37:11AM -0500, Aditya Siram wrote: I am building a web-app that, in broad strokes, allows a leader to assign tasks to team members and allows team members to accept/reject/pick tasks that they want to do. I really like Haskell and I would like to use it to implement the solution. Are frameworks like Happs ready? Not so much in terms of documentation, but in functionality and stability. Me too, but in this case if it's only about assigning tasks you should consider using existing solutions such as flysrpay or mantis http://www.mantisbt.org/ Maybe they fit your needs ? mit freundlichem Gruss Marc Weber ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] What is the maturity of Haskell Web Frameworks
aditya_siram: I am building a web-app that, in broad strokes, allows a leader to assign tasks to team members and allows team members to accept/reject/pick tasks that they want to do. I really like Haskell and I would like to use it to implement the solution. Are frameworks like Happs ready? Not so much in terms of documentation, but in functionality and stability. HAppS is nice (see hpaste.org for example, which is nice and simple, and has been running for over a year). Another nice option in Haskell is using something like HStringTemplate or the xhtml combinators with fastcgi hooked into GHC's concurrency mechanisms. You can find *many* more things here, http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/pkg-list.html#cat:Network http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/pkg-list.html#cat:Web ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] What is the maturity of Haskell Web Frameworks
On 6/2/08 10:21 AM, Don Stewart wrote: aditya_siram: I am building a web-app that, in broad strokes, allows a leader to assign tasks to team members and allows team members to accept/reject/pick tasks that they want to do. I really like Haskell and I would like to use it to implement the solution. Are frameworks like Happs ready? Not so much in terms of documentation, but in functionality and stability. HAppS is nice (see hpaste.org for example, which is nice and simple, and has been running for over a year). Another nice option in Haskell is using something like HStringTemplate or the xhtml combinators with fastcgi hooked into GHC's concurrency mechanisms. If you're interested in the background of rolling your own web stuff, I like Paul Brown's description of building perpubplat here: http://mult.ifario.us/t/blog HTH, Keith ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
