Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey results

. (Brexit, perhaps, but Haskell??) But many thanks to Gershom and Taylor for dealing with it so professionally. Simon From: Haskell-community On Behalf Of Michael Snoyman Sent: 18 November 2018 19:32 To: Taylor Fausak Cc: haskell-community@haskell.org Subject: Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey results

OK. Thanks for sharing some statistics. I'm now convinced as to the characterization of the attack. I'm still glad for how the public post diplomatically handled this. > I will also say, though there's speculation about "false flags" and Oof. That thought never crossed my mind. I can only

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey results

Hello Richard, On Sun, Nov 18, 2018 at 11:20:52PM -0500, Richard Eisenberg wrote: > I have not analyzed the data myself, but I wonder how we jumped to the > conclusion that the troll was trying to promote Stack. Is there > statistical data that supports that conclusion? For example, just reading

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey results

> For example, just reading this thread, it sounds like the bogus responses also really don't like the new release schedule. Maybe the troll wants the old release schedule back and was just lazy about programming the tool to vary the stack/cabal question answers adequately. There is another

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey results

I have not analyzed the data myself, but I wonder how we jumped to the conclusion that the troll was trying to promote Stack. Is there statistical data that supports that conclusion? For example, just reading this thread, it sounds like the bogus responses also really don't like the new release

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey results

The language extensions section doesn’t appear to be sorted properly. Outside of that, I think that these results are looking much better and any effort to find any additional outliers is probably not worth it for the moment. Thanks for your work on this, and I appreciate you being responsive and

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey results

Just wanted to add in: good catch Gershom on identifying the problem, and thank you Taylor for working to remove them from the report. > On 18 Nov 2018, at 21:17, Taylor Fausak wrote: > > Great catch, Gershom! There are indeed about 300 responses that tick all the > boxes except for disliking

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey results

Great catch, Gershom! There are indeed about 300 responses that tick all the boxes except for disliking the new GHC release schedule. The main thing the attacker seemed to be interested in was over-representing Stack and Stackage. Also, bizarrely, Java. That brings the number of bogus responses up

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey results

t; —Gershom > > > > On November 18, 2018 at 1:10:31 AM, Gershom B (gersh...@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > This is interesting, but I’m thoroughly confused. Over 2500 people said > they took last year’s survey, but it only had roughly 1,300 respondants? > > > On S

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey results

t doesn’t bode well for > future surveys as they may get at least slightly less dumb in the future if > they decide to keep it up :-/ > > —Gershom > > > > On November 18, 2018 at 1:10:31 AM, Gershom B (gersh...@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > This is interesting, but I’m

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey results

s case we can weed out the bad responses (although, sadly, >>>> losing at least a few real ones as well).>>>> >>>> However, assuming this party isn’t entirely stupid, it doesn’t >>>> bode well for future surveys as they may get at least slightly less

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey results

for future surveys as they may get at least slightly less dumb >>> in the future if they decide to keep it up :-/>>> >>> —Gershom >>> >>> >>> >>> On November 18, 2018 at 1:10:31 AM, Gershom B (gersh...@gmail.com) >>>

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey results

;> On November 18, 2018 at 1:10:31 AM, Gershom B (gersh...@gmail.com) wrote: >> >> This is interesting, but I’m thoroughly confused. Over 2500 people said >> they took last year’s survey, but it only had roughly 1,300 respondants? >> >> >> On Sat, Nov 17, 20

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey results

Taylor Fausak wrote: > Hello! It took a little longer than I expected, but I am nearly ready to > announce the 2018 state of Haskell survey results. Some community members > have expressed interest in seeing the announcement post before it's > published. If you are one of those peo

[Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey results

Hello! It took a little longer than I expected, but I am nearly ready to announce the 2018 state of Haskell survey results. Some community members have expressed interest in seeing the announcement post before it's published. If you are one of those people, you can see the results here: https

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey

I received confirmation from Airtable that they do not support arbitrary markup in forms. So I put in separator questions between each of section. At this point the survey is ready to publish. I recognize that there are many more questions that could be asked, but they’ll have to wait until

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey

On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 04:33:44PM -0400, Taylor Fausak wrote: > Thanks for the suggestions! > > - I plan on releasing the results under the ODbL 1.0 license. I'll be > sure to update the survey to say that. You can read more about the > license here:

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey

Thanks for the suggestions! - I plan on releasing the results under the ODbL 1.0 license. I'll be sure to update the survey to say that. You can read more about the license here: https://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/summary/ - The last question asks for an email address. I wouldn't call

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey

Hello Taylor, On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 02:42:16PM -0400, Taylor Fausak wrote: > Please > take a look at the survey to make sure that you're happy > with it! Let me know if there are any questions that you would like > to be added, removed, or changed. You can view the survey here: >

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey

We're creeping closer to the release date. I spent some time this weekend tweaking the survey in response to suggestions from this thread and also from GitHub. I don't plan on making any large changes to the survey between now and Thursday, except in response to feedback. Please take a look at the

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey

 Hooray! That’s wonderful news! Thank you, Haskell.org committee, for supporting the survey. I plan on releasing this year’s results in the same fashion as last year. > On Oct 26, 2018, at 5:31 AM, Jasper Van der Jeugt wrote: > > Hi Taylor, > > Yes, we're happy to

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey

Hi Taylor, Yes, we're happy to support it from Haskell.org. One additional ask from our side would be that the raw results are published as well, but I saw in the issue you're already planning on doing that. Cheers Jasper On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 11:18:30AM -0400, Taylor Fausak wrote: > We’re

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey

We’re one week out from the release of the survey. I plan on spending this weekend putting the finishing touches on it. Can I plan on announcing it as the official state of Haskell 2018 survey, supported by both Haskell Weekly and Haskell.org ? > On Oct 17, 2018, at 7:00

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey

Thanks Jasper, that’s a good idea. I’ll run this year’s survey for two weeks, from November 1 to November 15. > On Oct 17, 2018, at 7:00 PM, Jasper Van der Jeugt wrote: > > Hi Taylor, > > Just a small comment: I would like to keep the survey open a bit longer -- I > would suggest two weeks.

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey

Hi Taylor, Just a small comment: I would like to keep the survey open a bit longer -- I would suggest two weeks. This gives us a bit more time to push it out twice to as many channels as possible (once at the start and a reminder after a week or so). My intuition is that we'll be able to gather

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey

Thank you all for the wonderful feedback so far! I greatly appreciate all of it. I didn’t mean to be exclusionary with my language before, and I thank y’all for correcting me there. “We’re doing this together for the benefit of all” is an excellent way to say what I’m shooting for here. My

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey

Since I was pinged up-thread, might as well chime in. If only to say "I agree": selection bias is what it is. Taylor's efforts to come to this committee are laudable. And really could help mitigate some issues we've seen with other surveys. Selection bias isn't something worth agonizing over,

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey

| Hi Taylor. I like the way you pose things here: "I don't expect that | to remove selection bias, but it will let me (us, really) say: We're | doing this together for the benefit of all sides". I think that's a | better place to start from. I like this too -- and like Gershom, I'd delete

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey

shom B | > | Sent: 15 October 2018 01:56 | > | To: tay...@fausak.me; Mathieu Boespflug ; Ben Gamari | > | | > | Cc: haskell-community@haskell.org | > | Subject: Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey | > | | > | (cc mathieu boespflug, ben gamari) | > | | > |

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey

t; > substantial and interesting piece of work -- and /any/ survey is > > vulnerable to response bias. Second, I don’t think anyone should expect > > you as HWN editor to play a role as community censor. Third, > > deliberately excluding it would in itself be a divisive act in a >

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey

g it! > > Thanks > > Simon > > | -Original Message- > | From: Haskell-community On > | Behalf Of Gershom B > | Sent: 15 October 2018 01:56 > | To: tay...@fausak.me; Mathieu Boespflug ; Ben Gamari > | > | Cc: haskell-community@haskell.org > | Subje

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey

nks Simon | -Original Message- | From: Haskell-community On | Behalf Of Gershom B | Sent: 15 October 2018 01:56 | To: tay...@fausak.me; Mathieu Boespflug ; Ben Gamari | | Cc: haskell-community@haskell.org | Subject: Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey | | (cc mathieu boes

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey

(cc mathieu boespflug, ben gamari) One more thought: mathieu, ben -- do you think you would be interested in any questions on the frequency of ghc releases -- if people appreciate more frequent, smaller releases, or not, etc? I wonder if there are any other questions as well about core

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey

Hi Taylor. We're discussing this in the committee. I agree that to the extent they can accurately reflect something, language surveys are useful, and appreciate that you want to run a useful survey, and certainly want to encourage and help you in making it as broad and useful as possible. That

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey

I'm not entirely sure what official support would look like. A few things come to mind: 1. Simply putting "official" somewhere in the title, such as: Official 2018 state of Haskell survey. 2. Putting something about Haskell.org in the description of the survey, such as: Sponsored by

Re: [Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey

Hi Taylor, What does official support look like? I don't think there's anything above and beyond what you're already doing. Thanks, Neil On Sun, 14 Oct 2018 at 3:49 pm, Taylor Fausak wrote: > (I have CCed because the haskell-community > mailing list seems relatively quiet and I want to make

[Haskell-community] 2018 state of Haskell survey

(I have CCed because the haskell-community mailing list seems relatively quiet and I want to make sure this is seen.) Hello! My name is Taylor Fausak. I run the Haskell Weekly newsletter. Last year I published a survey [1] for the Haskell community. I collected and reported [2] on about 1,335