I remember an issue of the IBM Installation Newsletter back in the late 1960s.
It described an elaborate modification. Basically you assembled the Lord's
Prayer into object
form as a load of DCs and then applied it to every non-iplable volume as
IPLTXT. During error
recovery on 2311s and
On Wed, 2006-04-12 at 21:57 -0400, Craddock, Chris wrote:
... the cat is out of the
bag and a lot of the other CA guys have been dying for me to de-cloak
Some people have no morals :o)
Shane ...
--
For IBM-MAIN
.
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of George Bly
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 3:24 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Mainframe Evil
It is not just the low cost of entry but also the cost of change.
The way technology
Of Dave Salt
Sent: 12 April 2006 11:15 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Evil
From: Chase, John [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Last upgrade in my small shop cost for just ISV software was
$300,000 in just upgrade fees. I didn't need to change one piece of
code. That's hard to defend
http://www-306.ibm.com/software/info/zseries/
Still worth a read. Dinosaur Myth.
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
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-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dave Salt
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 4:15 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Evil
From: Chase, John [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Last upgrade in my small shop cost for just ISV software
I can't tell you the number of time I have had spirited conversations
with ISV's concerning their one-time upgrade fees. ISV's have been
allowed to get away with this legalized mugging for decades.
Let's say you purchase a home from a builder. He also offers you a contract
to provide
http://www-306.ibm.com/software/info/zseries/
Still worth a read. Dinosaur Myth.
It is just as misleading as any of the other similar pitches with a
selective view. If all of the systems were interchangeable then it would
make sense to compare their $$ costs.
Functionally however, we're
From: Ceruti, Gerard G [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I understand the reason for IBM helping out with 3rd party costs , but
now you have the situation that the IBM software costs are the biggest,
who do we scare them with ?.
When I made the comment that IBM is now competing with a number of ISV
products,
From: Pommier, Rex R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I am seeing the exact phenomenon here. We're looking at upgrading
from a 7060-H50 to a z890-140 which are basically the same horsepower.
I have one ISV - not Computer Associates - who is charging me a $3+
upgrade fee and increasing my annual
At 10:35 PM 04/12/2006, you wrote:
Welcome to the Borg Collection.
Actually it is Bord Collective. The Borg Collection is probably
something you buy from one of those collectible stores gr
--
Bruce A. Black
snip
Actually, according to Wikipedia it is Borg Collective. The Borg or
Borg
I agree with you and want to make sure it is clear that I am discussing
one vendor. I was pleasantly surprised when I found out that CA was
actually going to be dropping my IDMS bills to switch to the new
machine. Then I get blind-sided by this other vendor.
Rex
From: Pommier, Rex R. [EMAIL
On 12 Apr 2006 18:57:23 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
(Message-ID:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Craddock, Chris) wrote:
BTW after the IBM disclosure meetings this week the cat
is out of the
bag and a lot of the other CA guys have been dying for me
to de-cloak
so here goes... Check
Of Dave Salt
Sent: 12 April 2006 11:15 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Evil
From: Chase, John [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Last upgrade in my small shop cost for just ISV software was
$300,000 in just upgrade fees. I didn't need to change one piece of
code. That's hard to defend
I have been reading IBM-Main off and on for awhile and one of the
reoccurring concerns
is, of course, the phasing out of the mainframe at various shops. There
is one aspect of
this that, I think, has not been emphasized. This aspect was pointed out
in recent Wall
Street Journal column titled,
Evil according to a small shop!
I work with a younger staff that has played with computers since birth.
My boss who is not yet thirty (I'm over thirty) can buy 36 4 processor
servers a quarter for what we pay in software costs alone for the mainframe.
I am a small shop 1 CPU, 1 chip, small
-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Evil
Evil according to a small shop!
I work with a younger staff that has played with computers
since birth.
My boss who is not yet thirty (I'm over thirty) can buy 36 4
processor servers a quarter for what we pay in software costs
alone
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Bly
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 1:09 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Evil
Evil according to a small shop!
I work with a younger staff that has
In a message dated 4/12/2006 1:09:58 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Things run well on the server side for a fraction of the cost so how can I
defend the mainframe in our environment.
Cost per butt?
some serious bucks (90%) if
you qualify.
HTH and good luck.
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of George Bly
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 1:09 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Evil
Evil according to a small
It is not just the low cost of entry but also the cost of change.
The way technology is changing it is cheap to change to double the
technology in two years.
When you add another processor to a sun box the only cost is the additional
processor. No software increase and no license changes.
Things run well on the server side for a fraction of the cost so how can I
defend the mainframe in our environment.
How many users in the server environment?
How many support personell?
Ditto (both) for the mainframe?
Compare contrast.
-
-teD
O-KAY! BLUE! JAYS!
Let's PLAY! BALL!
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of George Bly
[ snip ]
Last upgrade in my small shop cost for just ISV software was
$300,000 in just upgrade fees. I didn't need to change one
piece of code. That's hard to defend.
To put it bluntly, it's
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Bly
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 3:24 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Evil
It is not just the low cost of entry but also the cost of change.
The way
From: Chase, John [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Last upgrade in my small shop cost for just ISV software was
$300,000 in just upgrade fees. I didn't need to change one
piece of code. That's hard to defend.
To put it bluntly, it's indefensible.
-jc-
Gouging by ISV's is a large part of the reason
I know of at least one ISV that charges a remarkably low flat rate for all of
their software, regardless of size or speed of mainframe.
IBM does (did?) that for NOTES and (IIRC) WebSphere.
The cost was per CPU, whether stand-alone, or in a multi-processor
configuration.
This was after NALC and
On Apr 12, 2006, at 3:30 PM, Chase, John wrote:
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of George Bly
[ snip ]
Last upgrade in my small shop cost for just ISV software was
$300,000 in just upgrade fees. I didn't need to change one
piece of code. That's hard
Ed Gould wrote;
I cannot say if the cost is more in PC land than in MF land.
I just don't have the background in the PC arena. The two
(was three) major vendors have been raked over the coals by
just about everyone on here. So there is no use in namimg
them again.
Not to pick on Ed, but
Welcome to the Borg Collection. Resistance is futile!
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Craddock, Chris
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 SYSN 6:57 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Evil
Ed Gould wrote;
I
:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Craddock, Chris
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 SYSN 6:57 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Evil
Ed Gould wrote;
I cannot say if the cost is more in PC land than in MF land.
I just don't have the background in the PC arena. The two
(was three) major
Welcome to the Borg Collection.
Actually it is Bord Collective. The Borg Collection is probably
something you buy from one of those collectible stores gr
--
Bruce A. Black
Senior Software Developer for FDR
Innovation Data Processing 973-890-7300
personal: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
sales info: [EMAIL
All the best in your new endeavors from Rebecca and I.
Bob
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Craddock, Chris
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 9:57 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject:Re: Mainframe Evil
BTW
On Apr 12, 2006, at 9:35 PM, Bruce Black wrote:
Welcome to the Borg Collection.
Actually it is Bord Collective. The Borg Collection is probably
something you buy from one of those collectible stores gr
Bruce,
I think he misspoke I think he meant Welcome to the CA Imperial Army
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