/ anything-but-class level autoloading, things might
as well be in a readily available location.
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On 31/10/2019 17:01, Mark Randall wrote:
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/deprecate-backtick-operator-v2 is now open for voting.
This vote has closed with 11 in favour and 26 against.
Backticks will therefore be left unaltered.
Thank you to everyone that voted.
Mark Randall
marand...@php.net
.
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https://wiki.php.net/rfc/deprecate-backtick-operator-v2 is now open for voting.
This is a standard yes / no vote, requiring a 2/3 majority to pass.
The vote will run for 2 weeks and will close on 2019-11-15.
Mark Randall
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of the PHP Internals News podcast.
Mark Randall
marand...@php.net
accidentally sitting in an outbox for
a bit too long and has just sent, but the vote has been underway for a
while now.
It currently has more than 90% in favour with good turnout.
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On 27/10/2019 02:12, Mike Schinkel wrote:
Hello all:
And for everyone:>
What do you think of this as a potential future for PHP?
I had received the impression that a lot of the problems for performance
optimizations relate to how PHP can shift things around at runtime,
where identical code
cognition has likely gone out the window.
There are plenty of much more expressive ways of doing this without
introducing new syntax IMHO.
Mark Randall
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is to
be found.
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en('missing.txt', 'r'),
FileException => null;
if ($x === null) {
die('File could not be opened.');
}
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a
token that would effectively no-op in all circumstances.
It sounds like a job for a static analysis comment:
/** @DisableSwitchStatementFallthroughWarning */
switch ($x) {
case 1:
$x = doSomething();
case 2:
doLaLaLaLa();
break;
default:
doTralala();
}
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On 16/10/2019 02:46, David Rodrigues wrote:
Hello. I like to suggests a discussion about a FR to make possible to
inline switch, as an alternative to nested inline conditionals.
```
http://www.php.net/unsub.php
On 11/10/2019 11:25, Nikita Popov wrote:
Purely syntactical deprecations, such as the recently discussed case of
backticks, but also the already accepted deprecations of the "alternative
array access syntax" and the (real) cast, can be performed automatically
and with perfect reliability.
I
) {
}
^^ Compiler Error.
Mark Randall
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On 10/10/2019 23:04, Walter Parker wrote:
If this truly is the problem that you say it is, there should be plenty of
documentation online as to the issues that it has cause. Maybe you could
post some of the better cases (as the the responsibility of the person
suggesting the change to provide
migrate to the much more obvious
shell_exec.
By writing the RFC, it's pretty obvious which one I think is the best
and most realistic course of action.
Mark Randall
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t's within our power, deprecation and
eventual removal of backticks in favour of something that's much more
obvious in its intent and much less easy to miss.
Mark Randall
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ather than trying to shift the conversation towards who can
and cannot propose RFCs :-)
If you want to discuss changing the RFC mechanics and who is entitled to
make them, please make your own RFC.
Thank you.
Mark Randall
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things, not just PHP.
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,
As the RFC states, there are already widely used tools available which
can do this reliably:
https://github.com/FriendsOfPHP/PHP-CS-Fixer
backtick_to_shell_exec
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having
identical behaviour, the compiler actually transforms the AST into a
userland function call to the named shell_exec function as per
zend_compile_shell_exec.
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y in light of the existence of
better described and more well-known functions exhibiting identical
behaviour.
This RFC only covers the issuing a deprecation notice, and its complete
removal would be contained within a separate RFC.
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To u
parsing code. It's pure cancer.
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in light
of the existing internals guidelines regarding considerate posting, and
they may find themselves prevented from continuing those actions.
Something I think most people would consider entirely reasonable.
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break due to requiring bitwise mask comparison in existing
handlers.
Either way, this this would allow easily differentiating engine warnings
that will become more prominent in this RFC, with those contained in
PHP_FUNCTION scope.
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probably find a way around it, at least
when running containerised.
Are you referring to installing shared libraries on the host?
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, the notion of
declare(sloppy=1);
Has already been jokingly proposed, and I would personally have no
problem with it if people want to opt-in to less reliable enforcement...
but once again, I stress that the defaults should always be best-practices.
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On 05/09/2019 22:45, Benjamin Morel wrote:
. One
thing that could be checked, is whether their API allows retrieving the
whole discussion history programmatically. If so, one could setup a
database to sync all messages to on a regular basis, so that the PHP
project could move the discussions
single sub-branch individually to get the
final word.
Something I am finding hard on Github, and maybe it's just because I
haven't found the option yet, is finding new posts.
Mark Randall
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he analogy someone posted elsewhere... the training wheels are
coming off. Time to be responsible and type those few extra characters
to be clear on your intent.
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The manager says: "Lay this out to me"
You reply:
"It's like our company car still works, but it no longer tighter meets
emissions standards so they won't let us take it into the city any more"
"Crap", the boss replies "Okay, we had best fix that"
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build your business on a foundation of eggshells and then complain
when something comes along that makes those eggshells crumble.
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tools available for years now to make this behaviour
more defined:
$counts[$key] = ($counts[$key] ?? 0) + 1;
"If $counts[$key] is not set, use the value 0".
Null Coalescing was explicitly designed to provide for this behaviour.
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on the
quality of their code as we (and their customers) would perhaps like
them to be.
For everyone else, it's one more tool to help make us aware of problems,
and prevent those problems from propagating along the stack and
effecting other things.
Bring it on.
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quot;hello"),
fn() => func_to_test(1234),
fn() => func_to_test(false)
);
I am however, unsure where this script should be placed in the codebase.
Mark Randall
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ain general concepts in a
particular way.
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r PHP, and build a consensus
on things such as strict typing, overloading in the core functions, and
perhaps most divisively, if "cleaning up the language" is in itself a
viable justification for backwards compatibility breaks, and if so, what
weight it should carry.
Mark Randa
ernally but it would require userland
loaders to be upgraded with it, not exactly a huge stretch, especially
with most things being composer-based, but a dummy class would make it
work out the box, including optimization steps like dumping the class list.
Mark Randall
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css / js / html template files.
Perfect for runtime, not so good for compile time, but if I'm wrong I
dare say someone will let me know.
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not use an autoloader, the
__nsmeta.php would need to be loaded first, this is something that
PHP7.4 autoloaders would need to take into consideration.
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and may depend on that package definition to control its
behaviour (especially if it gets loaded up with declares or editions).
I'll simply be replacing my ubiquitous strict-types declare with
whatever was used to reference this package.
Mark Randall
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nts?
One thing I did see in the GD library with _php_image_create_from is
that ZPP is different depending on logical expressions, rather than
pre-processor statements. How should these be handled?
Mark Randall
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of backwards compatibility. Prioritizing backwards
compatibility did not receive a strong response.
I seem to remember listening to Nikita on Derick's podcast a while ago
where he made comment on his observation that newer generation
programmers were looking for improved typing and strictness.
Mark
On 10/08/2019 11:56, Nikita Popov wrote:
Hi,
Lack of type information for internal functions in Reflection is a
long-standing issue. In PHP 8 we finally have all the necessary technical
groundwork done to support argument and return type annotations on internal
functions at scale.
Question -
ctions.
The entire argument order issue could potentially be wrote off with SON.
My guess is that whatever happens, it's going to require one version
that really brings the pain, to set the groundwork for the future.
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To unsu
the version definition to a tag
instead of a declare, and having a "Anything and everything new" version.
Is there a major difference I'm not immediately seeing?
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On 09/08/2019 08:15, Zeev Suraski wrote:
You seem to believe that C++ is inherently superior to C. And it's
entirely within your right.
However, there are projects - to this date - that prefer C to C++ for a
variety of reasons. PHP is one of them, and others include the Linux
kernel, redis,
.
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of things,
but I agree with Nikita's point that it only kicks things down the line
until the next break.
I think side-by-side engine versions are likely going to be the end
result if it's possible.
My heart says "clean break" my head says "side by side".
Mark Randall
challenge for the internals team and
its contributors to create coexistent systems with versioning, but I
would simply offer the following:
If you're not going forward, you're falling behind, and sometimes going
forward requires sacrifice.
Mark Randall
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), would treat code which was previously explicitly specified as
valid, as no longer valid, and would expose it to the world.
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short tag removal has one major thing going for it, consistency,
and by extension, predictability.
That's it.
Is that enough? I'm on the fence.
Mark Randall
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about time that an spl_autoload_list was
added that accepted the standard composer classmap [class_id => path]
and forewent most autoload callbacks entirely?
Mark Randall
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ike a
job for composer tbh so userland workload would be limited for projects
using modern workflows.
This would of course be dependent on if the compiler stage has the
ability to branch off and call an autoloader the first time it
encounters the import_declares.
Just my 2 pence worth.
--
not a catch-all situation, but might present an opportunity
for doing some of the leg work automatically.
Mark Randall
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On 23/07/2019 10:00, Derick Rethans wrote:
DOs:
- Test test test test
- Tell your friends and collegues to test with their apps and projects
- Oh yeah: test!
Derick, congratulations on your RM role, however, for your personal
well-being, I feel obliged to ask if you have recently experienced
code.
If short tags are to be removed, V2 is a significantly more reasonable
way of going about it.
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stretching the bounds of reasonableness too far
to suggest the creation of a dedicated page on php.net that contains a
description, a link to csfixer etc, and then that link be included in
the depreciation message itself.
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On 23/07/2019 18:54, G. P. B. wrote:
Hello intern
""Mark Clements (HappyDog)"" wrote in message
news:php.internals-105...@news.php.net...
> [SUMMARISED]
> The new FFI class that has been introduced in PHP 7.4 [1].
> has bivalent methods, which is not allowed in userland code and
> is therefore introducing
On 20/06/2019 22:19, Rowan Collins wrote:
On 20/06/2019 16:36, Mark Randall wrote:
"Hello".substr(1) // would work as expected regardless of encoding
As I always point out when "multi-byte support" or "Unicode support" is
discussed, it's often ambiguous just w
oding
My question to everyone is, what mechanism would be used to mark a
string as being of a specific encoding? Naturally a .toUTF8() would be
possible, but I'm not sure that would be as tidy as it could be.
"Hello".toUTF8()
$_GET['example'].toUTF8()
In certain languages, a basi
tions or unions with different requirements for each type.
Well-docblock'd stubs, C definitions, documentation pages etc would then
be the drawn from the JSON rather than the other way.
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}
return -1;
};
$x and $y would be captured, $z would not be. I believe this is how
short closures are implemented, but is at present only supporting a
single line.
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provide best-of-both-worlds.
The benefits of public key vs a symmetric key are that the logs remain
secure even with read access to php.ini.
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of the "closure" you made a fool yourself beyond what you
> can grasp; but anyhow, my dear, it's refreshing, you made smile.
Please try and keep it civil. That was uncalled for.
- Mark Clements (HappyDog)
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= 1;
$closure = function() use (...) {
};
Where "use (...)" would auto-capture all of the used variables in a
similar manner to short closures, that would certainly save a bit of time.
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uld be resolved before 7.4 is released.
Kind regards,
- Mark Clements (HappyDog)
[1] https://www.php.net/manual/en/class.ffi.php
[2] https://www.php.net/manual/en/ffi.new.php
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eing able to tell the difference would have at least some
useful applications.
Clearly there's ways around that using the current, more verbose method,
but it would be nice if a way could be found so that this potential
ambiguity wasn't there in the first place if this new mechanism is adde
to throw it out there as a
possible option for handling chaining, that would potentially kill many
more birds down the road in the process.
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functions as-is, finally claim the \php namespace,
alias all of the internal functions into it, and make their default,
unchangeable behaviour be to throw a RuntimeException on error.
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ss ];
}
}
Eh, my suggestion is probably a terrible ideal.
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haste, as it's quite clear the
current plan cannot go forward as-is.
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codebase against each one. But we all know that's not how the real world
works.
For all those reasons, I am in favour of your proposal to fail-safe with
a compiler error.
(Also: Did I miss a vote option which would have made short_open_tags
always on?)
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n convince me otherwise, I will continue to strongly
believe that foreseeable future (years).
I'm half tempted to RFC it so it can go to a vote.
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be if you were
computer-generating code, as it would not pick up literals.
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ds no weight with me.
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On 23/04/2019 14:39, Mark Randall wrote:
It keeps coming back to the feature we've all been praying to the PHP
Gods for... generics.
Replying to myself (sorry).
I just wanted to point out that the same syntax would also solve your
other issue from the nullable casts thread:
function ncast
;
}
throw new InvalidArgumentException('Cast expected ' . T);
}
$x = cast($obj);
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it as the recommended
inbuilt method that handles strings with whitespace and trailing junk?
Will there be one?
I'm aware that the most common IDEs suggest using (int) instead of intval.
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, you should both be holding your heads high that you've
made the effort.
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. Otherwise moves on to next option and casts it to an
integer.
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_GET['name'] ?? '';
if ($value === '') {
// also, ?name[]= can sod off
throw new Exception('You must provide a name');
}
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null
I don't think it would go down very well to have non-nullable casts
throwing TypeErrors for common cases, without an elegant
could-not-convert fallback that doesn't require a 5 line try-catch block.
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ice, then prints `int(1)`
In the absense of a nullable modifier, that makes so little sense that
it definitely needs to throw a TypeError IMO.
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Equally I see a lot of use in the following to nullify unexpected inputs
such as if $_GET['something'] was an array:
$input = (?string)$_GET['input'] ?? '';
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utput = (?int)$input ?? $default;
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know where I can help and if
possible I will.
Kind regards,
Mark Scholten
> -Original Message-
> From: Levi Morrison [mailto:le...@php.net]
> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2019 16:37
> To: Derick Rethans
> Cc: PHP Developers Mailing List; PHP Mirrors ML
> Subject: Re:
On 06/02/2019 08:13, Mark Baker wrote:
> Looking at the Voting Eligibility discussion going on at the moment.
>
> I, like many others, participated in the last testfest 18 months or so
> ago. Did the results from that ever get merged? Or have they simply been
> discarded or forgo
in the
contributions list posted aganst the Workflow and Voting RFC Eligibility
list: yet all those who participated in the testfest care about the
language enough to get involved
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_
|. \ \-3
|_J_/ PHP |
|| | __ |
|| |m| |m|
I LOVE PHP
y have more insight into the
internals of PHP than the average PHP developer, but sit astride the
fence between the core an duserland development
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|. \ \-3
|_J_/ PHP |
|| | __ |
|| |m| |m|
I LOVE PHP
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complaints from on the ground that releases are currently too frequent,
making it difficult for larger organisations to keep up when they have
to retest all their own apps/libraries/plugins with the new versions.
A fixed cycle and schedule could help plan for change.
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Mark Baker
that the big jump in performance that JIT warrants
is enough to justify a major version change, and it makes for a strong
selling point, even if there are no BC breaks
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_
|. \ \-3
|_J_/ PHP |
|| | __ |
|| |m| |m|
I LOVE PHP
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a set of independent scripts.
If this doesn't pass, long term I think the main alternative would be to
have a single statement that was like a quasi-include of declarations in
another file, almost like a ".h"
declare_import('/my/namespace/nsprefs.php');
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'hello', 1]
I did take a look in zend_types.h half expecting to see a pointer to an
optional structure defining an indirect function call + argument to be
called whenever the zval_value was about to be changed, but if it's in
there, I missed it.
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loaded function constructors...
... and yes, that did include almost every major language wishlist item
in a single go. Chalk it up to me romancing my long lost love of C++.
Thanks.
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func_2($1, 'Peace', 'Out'),
func_3('ThisOneNeeds', 'Arg3ReplacingInstead', $1),
func_3($1, $1, 'HowAboutOneWhichUsesTheSameArgumentTwice')
);
function chain($start, ... $fns) {
foreach ($fns as $fncall) {
$start = $fncall($start);
}
return $start;
}
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P
'Arg3ReplacingInstead', $1),
func_3($1, $1, 'HowAboutOneWhichUsesTheSameArgumentTwice')
);
function chain($start, ... $fns) {
foreach ($fns as $fncall) {
$start = $fncall($start);
}
return $start;
}
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Stas,
Wow, for some reason it didn't occur to me to try that. Confirming the
following works:
foreach ($foo ?? [] as $bar) {
echo $bar;
}
I think the biggest need for this is if the value is null. Guess it's
case-closed :)
Might be a good idea to add this to the docs, pretty neat.
Mark
into an iterable/array
for the duration of the loop. I'm wondering what opinions would be on the
cons of going this route. Given php's weak typing and someone's desire to
execute a foreach on _something_, I think this alternate method might be a
good option.
Mark
On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 12:18 PM Aidan Woods
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