Steph Fox wrote:
1) Distribution woes need to end. With the work Greg's been doing lately
on PHP_Archive/Phar, that's very close to being attainable now in the
physical 'getting PECL'd extensions out to people' sense, but unless
people are running CLI or CGI or have access to their own
Christopher Jones wrote:
Steph Fox wrote:
1) Distribution woes need to end. With the work Greg's been doing lately
on PHP_Archive/Phar, that's very close to being attainable now in the
physical 'getting PECL'd extensions out to people' sense, but unless
people are running CLI or CGI or
Hi Chris,
In interests of clarity for all, can you explain what you anticipate
will change for PECL with Phar/Pyrus for Windows and non-Windows?
From my PoV as a Windows user, the primary case for optimisim is based on
the fact that local PEAR installs recently started working properly on
You forget that for most shared
hosters they just install PHP so that they can say they support it, but
actually don't give a ratsass about what is actually supported.
I totally agree, most hosts just install what comes as default with a
distribution, they don't care or even bother with PECL
Hi both,
I totally agree, most hosts just install what comes as default with a
distribution, they don't care or even bother with PECL in 99% of cases in
my
experience.
Well - that can't be entirely true or there'd be next to no MySQL support
out there!
I just think we make it needlessly
Well - that can't be entirely true or there'd be next to no MySQL support
out there!
I knew that would come back and bite me on the ass as soon as I posted! :-)
MySQL support is one of the noteable exceptions as its considered core to
web-hosts (In their eyes PHP and MySQL are one) other
On Feb 6, 2008 11:12 AM, Marco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well - that can't be entirely true or there'd be next to no MySQL support
out there!
I knew that would come back and bite me on the ass as soon as I posted! :-)
MySQL support is one of the noteable exceptions as its considered core
Hi Pierre,
The main reason (from my experiences) for the ISP is lazynes. They
don't care about what the users may need or not but simply run
configure, make make install, or use the xyz distribtutions default
package to run common applications like phpmyadmin or wordpress.
That's a heck of an
Hi Marco,
I think one of the reasons hosts don't like / use PECL is trust, they
trust
what comes with the PHP core packages and consider anything else a
security
risk. Maybe a combination of better distribution, package details,
stability
(beta / alpha) etc and maybe something that deals
On Feb 6, 2008 11:32 AM, Steph Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Pierre,
The main reason (from my experiences) for the ISP is lazynes. They
don't care about what the users may need or not but simply run
configure, make make install, or use the xyz distribtutions default
package to run
On 06/02/2008, Steph Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
By the way:
http://www.nexen.net/articles/dossier/18038-base_configuration_for_php_5.2.5.php
Thanks for that, Pierre. But I think those stats add to the argument for
making PECL easier to deal with, rather than diminishing it.
- Steph
By the way:
http://www.nexen.net/articles/dossier/18038-base_configuration_for_php_5.2.5.php
Thanks for that, Pierre. But I think those stats add to the argument for
making PECL easier to deal with, rather than diminishing it.
- Steph
--
Pierre
http://blog.thepimp.net |
On Sat, February 2, 2008 2:14 pm, Steph Fox wrote:
2) Maintenance status needs to be part of the equation.
3) Stability needs to be part of the equation.
4) Appropriateness to a given PHP branch needs to be part of the
equation.
5) CS and documentation need to be part of the equation.
On Mon, February 4, 2008 3:42 am, Ben Trafford wrote:
Just poking up my head to concur with Derick. What one
person thinks of as 'fashionistas', another person will think of as
absolutely core and necessary
+1
I don't think this list will ever reach concensus on what should be
in
On Sat, 2 Feb 2008, Steph Fox wrote:
1) Distribution woes need to end. With the work Greg's been doing lately on
PHP_Archive/Phar, that's very close to being attainable now in the physical
'getting PECL'd extensions out to people' sense, but unless people are running
CLI or CGI or have access
On Sun, 3 Feb 2008, Steph Fox wrote:
Everything else - the fashionistas (JSON, xmlreader/writer) and the downright
useful for some but not all (fileinfo, json, com_dotnet, posix) and the quirky
stuff (pretty much anything Sara came up with) - should be in PECL.
I see another issue after
I'd like everything in PECL. Even the core. And yes, it is quite doable.
--Jani
On Sun, 2008-02-03 at 00:21 +0100, Marcus Boerger wrote:
Hello Steph,
what I want is php-src as minimum you can depend on. And php-default as
release managers playground. The RM can then say what he thinks is
On Sun, 2008-02-03 at 10:56 +0100, Lukas Kahwe Smith wrote:
I am also not sure if including mysqlnd in PHP core is the way to go.
However I would not be generally opposed to including it in the PHP
distribution.
There's a technical reason for that: It needs to be statically buildin
to work
At 04:33 AM 2/4/2008, Derick Rethans wrote:
On Sun, 3 Feb 2008, Steph Fox wrote:
Everything else - the fashionistas (JSON, xmlreader/writer) and
the downright
useful for some but not all (fileinfo, json, com_dotnet, posix)
and the quirky
stuff (pretty much anything Sara came up with) -
On 04.02.2008, at 11:38, Marcus Boerger wrote:
Hello Ben,
None of this is necessary though. What I proposed was moving
extension
development from php-src to PECL an dthen bundle what we see fit
into the
distribution just as we do now, whith the RM having the last say
what goes
in and
Hello Ben,
None of this is necessary though. What I proposed was moving extension
development from php-src to PECL an dthen bundle what we see fit into the
distribution just as we do now, whith the RM having the last say what goes
in and what not. In my proposal we would only put stuff into
Hi Derick,
I see another issue after reading this, and that is that it makes it
much harder for users to depend on specific extensions just being always
available by default. It's important for application distributers to
have this core set of extensions to rely on. It's annoying enough that
Steph Fox wrote:
Hi Derick,
I see another issue after reading this, and that is that it makes it
much harder for users to depend on specific extensions just being always
available by default. It's important for application distributers to
have this core set of extensions to rely on. It's
Steph Fox wrote:
Hi Marcus,
what I want is php-src as minimum you can depend on. And php-default as
release managers playground. The RM can then say what he thinks is mature
enough to make it into a release.
What _I_ want is a PHP core that is really core. By that I mean things
like: date,
On 03.02.2008, at 10:16, Lester Caine wrote:
Steph Fox wrote:
Hi Marcus,
what I want is php-src as minimum you can depend on. And php-
default as
release managers playground. The RM can then say what he thinks is
mature
enough to make it into a release.
What _I_ want is a PHP core that is
Hello Lukas,
Sunday, February 3, 2008, 10:56:08 AM, you wrote:
On 03.02.2008, at 10:16, Lester Caine wrote:
Steph Fox wrote:
Hi Marcus,
what I want is php-src as minimum you can depend on. And php-
default as
release managers playground. The RM can then say what he thinks is
mature
Hi,
On Sun, 2008-02-03 at 12:24 +0100, Marcus Boerger wrote:
MySQLND was the last extension started in php-src and I don't even remember
when this was discussed (though in the current structure I like it there
pretty much).
Actually it was developed internally to MySQL and offered for
Hi Marcus,
Anyway my idea is to start everything in PECL and
to to move everything out that can be moved out. And that includes all
MySQL
extensions as well as SQLite. Only this way people will use the PELC
infrastructure. Otherwise we would just reduce functionality of PHP. And
btw
nearly
Hi Lukas,
Correct me if I am wrong or if I am missing something, but currently
things work more or less like this. I think its important that we get
an understanding of how things are right now and what the issues are,
before we go off and solve them (maybe with the above mentioned
On 03.02.2008, at 18:24, Steph Fox wrote:
Hi Marcus,
Anyway my idea is to start everything in PECL and
to to move everything out that can be moved out. And that includes
all MySQL
extensions as well as SQLite. Only this way people will use the PELC
infrastructure. Otherwise we would just
Hi Lukas,
I am not sure if I misunderstood some other persons proposal, but at
least my proposal was that the final thing we ship as version xyz of PHP
would include a set of PECL extensions along with core that we deem as
necessary for the bulk of our users solving the web problem.
Hi Marcus,
The rest of the discussion is once again how easy it is to get more than
the
default distribution onto hosters machines. But a) I couldn't care less,
That's... a bit remiss of you :)
b)
it is absolutely a discussion on its own and can addressed somewhere and
somewhen else.
No,
Hello Lukas,
same here. I proposed php-src with absolute minimum. And php-default as
the release state. Where the RM has the last say in what goes in and what
not.
The rest of the discussion is once again how easy it is to get more than the
default distribution onto hosters machines. But a) I
With the risk to repeat myself (and some other having said the same),
the biggest advantage PHP has so far is that you get everything you
may need with the default install.
This hasn't been true of the Windows distribution for the last few years. I
think it should be - I think the default
On Feb 3, 2008 10:21 PM, Steph Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
With the risk to repeat myself (and some other having said the same),
the biggest advantage PHP has so far is that you get everything you
may need with the default install.
This hasn't been true of the Windows distribution for the
Good point but I admit that I never understood why our windows
releases have been so different from the source releases, from a
configuration point of view. Many default extensions are (were) not
enabled. But that's not a big problem and can be easily fixed no? :)
It's not a big problem so long
On Feb 3, 2008 10:27 PM, Steph Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Good point but I admit that I never understood why our windows
releases have been so different from the source releases, from a
configuration point of view. Many default extensions are (were) not
enabled. But that's not a big
Assuming the aim is to have everything _not_ enabled by default move to
PECL, that's quite a big deal.
That's another topic and I tend to disagree (more later on that).
I'll wait... but I suspect all the arguments against that are based on PECL
as it currently is, with all its distribution
Hi all,
Just so's Marcus and I don't have to keep cross-posting here... The problems
of PECL vs core extensions are many, and exist with or without the PDO/CLA
debate.
Marcus (among others) says he wants to get as many extensions as possible
out of the core and into PECL. I agree fully with
On Feb 2, 2008 9:14 PM, Steph Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thoughts?
It is also possible to have both. It is even a good thing for what
linux distributions told me about zip. About moving all extensions to
PECL, we already discussed this problem and the conclusion was to
continue like now.
Hello Steph,
what I want is php-src as minimum you can depend on. And php-default as
release managers playground. The RM can then say what he thinks is mature
enough to make it into a release.
marcus
Saturday, February 2, 2008, 9:14:12 PM, you wrote:
Hi all,
Just so's Marcus and I don't
Hello Pierre,
basically you are saying that zip would not have been used by anybody if
you hadn't forced us by mail bombardment to include it. So now I am
wondering why you care so much what goes in and what goes out? After all it
is the RMs decision. And we might get asked or not.
marcus
Hi Marcus,
what I want is php-src as minimum you can depend on. And php-default as
release managers playground. The RM can then say what he thinks is mature
enough to make it into a release.
What _I_ want is a PHP core that is really core. By that I mean things like:
date, spl, pcre, zlib,
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