As Paul Jones mentioned in this thread:
http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse/browse_thread/thread/f572917d7173fd43
Nothing was said at J1 about what usage of the JavaFX Libraries in
java would look like. You'd think that certain aspects of the JavaFX
libraries might need some language
... as for closures.
The question is *when.* There's a long road(map) ahead.
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 13:46, Reinier Zwitserloot reini...@gmail.comwrote:
As Paul Jones mentioned in this thread:
http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse/browse_thread/thread/f572917d7173fd43
Nothing was said
Ditto for the beer ...
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 6:55 AM, Fabrizio Giudici
fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it wrote:
2010/9/22 Cédric Beust ♔ ced...@beust.com mailto:ced...@beust.com
What part of 99% did you miss? :-)
Look on the Android forums and compare the number of people who
I was wondering about the other JavaFX sessions at JavaOne: Do they still
present something with the script syntax ? (If so, who would still go there
?) Or are they all about the to-be-expected API ?
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Most sessions are using the JavaFX Script 1.3 syntax, some sessions by
Oracle employees show an early version of the upcoming JavaFX Java APIs, but
these are very likely to change before they'll be published in early access
(Q1 or Q2 2011).
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Jan Goyvaerts™
I attended JavaFX 2.0 session today and someone asked what to do if
their company wanted to start a javafx project on Monday. No really
good answer to that since fx script will be of no use once 2.0
arrives. The fx team said that fx script is open source and could be
brought forward, but after
My read on this answer was that you'd be best finding something else
to spend your time on until around March/April 2011 -- at which point FX
/may /be worth revisiting in an early access capacity.
If that's at the top of your to-do list, then that's a pickle :-)
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On 9/23/2010
By killing off JavaFX script this must be the first time Sun has ever made
some source code of today uncompilable in the future.
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Sun? Who/where's Sun? There is no such creature now :-)
On 9/22/2010 8:32 AM, Miroslav Pokorny wrote:
By killing off JavaFX script this must be the first time Sun has ever
made some source code of today uncompilable in the future.
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No, it has to be said, Oracle seems less willing to just throw stuff
up against the wall and see what sticks - something that really did
not work very well for Sun.
On Sep 22, 3:32 pm, Miroslav Pokorny miroslav.poko...@gmail.com
wrote:
By killing off JavaFX script this must be the first time Sun
On 9/22/10 06:32 , Miroslav Pokorny wrote:
By killing off JavaFX script this must be the first time Sun has ever
made some source code of today uncompilable in the future.
Since JavaFX Script is now useless for them, I suppose they should not
object to releasing the entire thing in FLOSS
On 9/21/10 15:01 , Cédric Beust ♔ wrote:
2010/9/21 Cédric Beust ♔ ced...@beust.com mailto:ced...@beust.com
On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 2:58 PM, Casper Bang
casper.b...@gmail.com mailto:casper.b...@gmail.com wrote:
Ah I see it has been added since, though still not exactly
2010/9/22 Fabrizio Giudici fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it
By the way, the point that I wanted to make is that Java developers who
decide to learn Android are never really handicapped by the Java aspect
(which is 99% compatible with Java SE).
False. If you have some code for the manipulation
After digesting this shocker, I think I understand what they are
doing.
The primary motivation behind the JavaFX project is apparently to
support the other Oracle teams and product lines that wanted a better
cross platform UI platform, and I'm guessing that those teams didn't
like being forced
2010/9/22 Cédric Beust ♔ ced...@beust.com mailto:ced...@beust.com
What part of 99% did you miss? :-)
Look on the Android forums and compare the number of people who
complain about Android not being Java and the number people
asking Android API questions. I'm guessing 99.99%
On 9/20/2010 3:49 PM, Cédric Beust ♔ wrote:
Just give us a decent UI that runs on any desktop OS without any
extra native libraries, etc (which kills the notion of SWT
immediately)
How so? Swing uses native libraries as well (well, AWT does). They are
just implementing the UI
Well, that's dissapointing...
JavaFX script was acttually pretty neat language in and of itself.
If they'd cleaned up the full interaction story with Java proper
(which, it seems they are currently are focusing on), then I would see
no problem having FX script as a separate (native) language of
Would it be dropped completely or could it be pushed out into
opensource to continue development but not within Oracle?
It does seem that a lot of JavaFX is similar to Groovy anyway with one
of the most key differentiators being the binding capability. Given
how much hyper there has been about
The syntax was interesting, but I believe it was a mistake to narrow
it down to a graphics DSL and targeting Applet 2.0. If they had
generalized the language and pushed it as a much needed revolutionary
step a la Java Next Gen, then I believe the Java space would've looked
very different today
I think JavaFX script was being pushed as a potential Java NG in some
circles given how many features which people had wanted in Java were
being pushed into JavaFX Script. I think some of those involved with
it would have liked it to have been used beyond just Applets.
That said on the competing
If I was oracle, then I'd probably be thinking:
- offload the Script stuff (including support costs) to other JVM languages,
these being more than capable
- push JavaFX as the next-gen swing library
- Leverage the lawsuit vs. Google to get JavaFX used as the core of a future
(Java licensed)
Has Silverlight in the .Net world gained more traction than JavaFX in
the Java community.
Oh I would say definitely. At least you can find people outside
the .NET community who have heard of, and tried, Silverlight, whereas
the same is not the case with JavaFX. The massive weight of the JRE
has
Silverlight is also what devs will use for Windows Phone 7 development.
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Slides from the talk are available as a PDF here:
http://jonathangiles.net/blog/?p=916
http://jonathangiles.net/blog/?p=916
On 21 September 2010 11:59, CKoerner chessm...@gmail.com wrote:
Silverlight is also what devs will use for Windows Phone 7 development.
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I dont get it. I can't find anything official that states that JavaFX
script is going to be dropped or even deprecated. The roadmap talks
about the introduction of the Java based APIs, but not in lieu of
JavaFX script?
Cheers
Craig
On Sep 21, 2:33 am, Kevin Wright kev.lee.wri...@gmail.com
On 9/20/10 14:32 , Casper Bang wrote:
About time... now let's get some resources back to core Java.
Given that only the language support is dropped, somebody has got to
tell us how many resources does he suppose will be saved...
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Tidalwave
On 9/20/10 15:11 , Chris Adamson wrote:
Which leads to the question, does any Java UI framework other than
Android matter anymore?
iPads might be the desktop of the future for the end customers. I would
have tons of doubts for what concerns industrial application (where
frankly they don't
I just think they decided, given the current adoption rate (or lack
of), it's not worth pouring more resources into the language part.
Also, it's probably fair to say that JavaFX generally consumed far
more resources than the non UI developers would've liked. And
personally having used some of the
On 9/21/10 06:24 , Craig wrote:
I dont get it. I can't find anything official that states that JavaFX
script is going to be dropped or even deprecated. The roadmap talks
about the introduction of the Java based APIs, but not in lieu of
JavaFX script?
What's really disappointing is that there
On 9/20/10 16:18 , Cédric Beust ♔ wrote:
Fabrizio,
On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 3:58 PM, Fabrizio Giudici
fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it mailto:fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it
wrote:
At the risk of being snarky, I'll go ahead and say that just
like JavaFX, the only times I ever
On 9/21/10 07:53 , Ricky Clarkson wrote:
in my experience makes sense, but yes, you can argue that Cedric's
experience doesn't count for anything if you like. In my experience,
Spizzico pizza is better than the pizza in half the restaurants in
Italy. My experience is pretty small, but that
On Sep 21, 1:25 pm, Casper Bang casper.b...@gmail.com wrote:
Well except in the case of Silverlight, developers did not have to
learn a new syntax nor wait for the tool-chain to catch up.
Sure we did. I worked on a team of .NET developers using Silverlight
for the first time: we had to learn
Sure we did. I worked on a team of .NET developers using Silverlight
for the first time: we had to learn XAML, the new wildly different
layout scheme, the new control set, and brand new multithreading
model.
But it was still just XML, with a schema attached. And the code-behind
still C# and
On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Casper Bang casper.b...@gmail.com wrote:
no Enum support etc.
Uh? Where did you get that idea?
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Romain Guy told me some time ago it was left out for performance
reasons. There's Enum support now?
On Sep 21, 11:48 pm, Cédric Beust ♔ ced...@beust.com wrote:
On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Casper Bang casper.b...@gmail.com wrote:
no Enum support etc.
Uh? Where did you get that idea?
--
Ah I see it has been added since, though still not exactly
recommended:
http://developer.android.com/guide/practices/design/performance.html#avoid_enums
On Sep 21, 11:56 pm, Casper Bang casper.b...@gmail.com wrote:
Romain Guy told me some time ago it was left out for performance
reasons.
2010/9/21 Cédric Beust ♔ ced...@beust.com
On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 2:58 PM, Casper Bang casper.b...@gmail.comwrote:
Ah I see it has been added since, though still not exactly
recommended:
http://developer.android.com/guide/practices/design/performance.html#avoid_enums
Correct.
It's
It's been there pretty much since day one, though, as far as I can remember.
Ehh are you sure about that? It's no more than a year ago Roman
informed me enums are very costly and won't be supported in the
near future:
So, JavaFX Script is dead, long live JavaFX.
On the plus side, there are a heap of good things about this. It
stops the 'why the new language' debates, it means people with
enthusiasm for Groovy/Scala/Java will get on board with the API,
tooling deficiencies will go away (if you stick with
Actually, I should temper my statement now I've read this:
http://fxexperience.com/
The best part... 'we're hiring' and a list of positions. That alone
is different to what has happened the past few years.
Hope springs eternal.
On Sep 22, 9:53 am, Steven Herod steven.he...@gmail.com wrote:
Heh, and to think that as far as I understand the JavaFX movement, it
all _started_ with F3 (Form follows function), a scripting language
developed by Chris Oliver. F3 is to JavaFX Script as Oak is to Java,
i.e. v0.9.
On Sep 20, 8:33 pm, Kevin Wright kev.lee.wri...@gmail.com wrote:
Could this be
On the plus side, my (and many others') prediction that Sun/Oracle
will be announcing JavaFX at JavaOne for the third year in a row has
come true!
On Sep 20, 8:33 pm, Kevin Wright kev.lee.wri...@gmail.com wrote:
Could this be true? The twitterverse certainly seems to think so right now.
Scala,
I hope you had some money on that :)
On 20 September 2010 19:40, Reinier Zwitserloot reini...@gmail.com wrote:
On the plus side, my (and many others') prediction that Sun/Oracle
will be announcing JavaFX at JavaOne for the third year in a row has
come true!
On Sep 20, 8:33 pm, Kevin Wright
I hope you have some money on the ridiculous OP. I'm guessing that
JavaFX 2.0 is what was rumored to be JavaFX 1.4 with the Prism
runtime, full data grid controls, full 3D, etc.
You can already use Scala or other JVM languages with JavaFX. You have
to use FX script for the actual interface
Is it going to be Swing's successor then ?
The language itself was quite neat. A shame they're getting rid of it. Any
special reason ?
On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 21:26, clay claytonw...@gmail.com wrote:
I hope you have some money on the ridiculous OP. I'm guessing that
JavaFX 2.0 is what was
wow! I would have lost that bet...
On Sep 20, 2:13 pm, Jo Voordeckers jo.voordeck...@gmail.com wrote:
Unfortunately it's true I was in the JavaFX 2.0 session.
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Yeah, if only I *had* had some money on it...
On 20 September 2010 20:33, clay claytonw...@gmail.com wrote:
wow! I would have lost that bet...
On Sep 20, 2:13 pm, Jo Voordeckers jo.voordeck...@gmail.com wrote:
Unfortunately it's true I was in the JavaFX 2.0 session.
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Would there be in fact a problem to re-create the JavaFX language ?
Forbidden probably...
On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 21:33, clay claytonw...@gmail.com wrote:
wow! I would have lost that bet...
On Sep 20, 2:13 pm, Jo Voordeckers jo.voordeck...@gmail.com wrote:
Unfortunately it's true I was
ScalaFX, GroovyFX... It could be done as a DSL
On 20 September 2010 21:03, Jan Goyvaerts™ java.arti...@gmail.com wrote:
Would there be in fact a problem to re-create the JavaFX language ?
Forbidden probably...
On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 21:33, clay claytonw...@gmail.com wrote:
wow! I would
So does this make it more or less like XAML?
I was under the impression this approach had many benefits from easier
tooling to easier maintenance. What benefits does moving it to an API
that outweigh the scripting benefits?
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On 9/20/10 12:31 , Jan Goyvaerts™ wrote:
Is it going to be Swing's successor then ?
I'm reading this quickly (I'm eating). This sounds good for some things
(reusability, which BTW sounds as a return to the origin, since I
remember that in 2007 Sun was saying in a way that JavaFX runtime
Ahwel... maybe that's the occasion to learn about DSL's, lexers and al. :-)
On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 22:06, Kevin Wright kev.lee.wri...@gmail.comwrote:
ScalaFX, GroovyFX... It could be done as a DSL
On 20 September 2010 21:03, Jan Goyvaerts™ java.arti...@gmail.com wrote:
Would there be in
I think that all this move is going to accomplish is to push even more
developers toward SWT/JFace/Eclipse RCP.
Seriously, Java FX has close to zero adoption, the only times I ever hear
about it are either during Java One or from Sun employees or JavaFX book
authors.
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On Mon, Sep 20,
Well if they give JavaFX a /really/ nice Java API so one can use it
from Java as easily as Swing, then there's nothing more compelling about
SWT due to this announcement.
SWT has no point over Swing at this point (vs. when it was originally
created) unless you or your users are /really /hung
On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Jess Holle je...@ptc.com wrote:
Well if they give JavaFX a *really* nice Java API so one can use it from
Java as easily as Swing, then there's nothing more compelling about SWT due
to this announcement.
SWT has no point over Swing at this point (vs. when it
On Sep 20, 10:25 pm, Fabrizio Giudici fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it
wrote:
[...]
PS OTOH, the JavaFX script compiler is the JavaFX part that is open
sourced. I suppose JavaFX script could be fully supported by aficionados
if they want to keep it live.
the compiler in use is not open sourced.
On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Cédric Beust ♔ ced...@beust.com wrote:
On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Jess Holle je...@ptc.com wrote:
Well if they give JavaFX a *really* nice Java API so one can use it from
Java as easily as Swing, then there's nothing more compelling about SWT due
to
On 9/20/10 13:29 , Cédric Beust ♔ wrote:
I think that all this move is going to accomplish is to push even more
developers toward SWT/JFace/Eclipse RCP.
Seriously, Java FX has close to zero adoption, the only times I ever
hear about it are either during Java One or from Sun employees or
On Sep 20, 7:33 pm, Kevin Wright kev.lee.wri...@gmail.com wrote:
Could this be true? The twitterverse certainly seems to think so right now.
Scala, Clojure, Groovy, JRuby, Jython, etc. all invited to the party!
So the question is; who'll be first with a good DSL substitute for Fx
Script?
On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Fabrizio Giudici
fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it wrote:
In any case, the large increase of adoption of the NetBeans Platform in the
industry is related to the fact that many don't like SWT (and hence the
Eclipse Platform).
At the risk of being snarky, I'll go
About time... now let's get some resources back to core Java.
On Sep 20, 8:33 pm, Kevin Wright kev.lee.wri...@gmail.com wrote:
Could this be true? The twitterverse certainly seems to think so right now.
Scala, Clojure, Groovy, JRuby, Jython, etc. all invited to the party!
So the question is;
I'd like to read this as a focus of resources on the JVM and the platform,
instead of the incumbent producer of bytecode...
Only time will tell!
On 20 September 2010 22:32, Casper Bang casper.b...@gmail.com wrote:
About time... now let's get some resources back to core Java.
On Sep 20, 8:33
Native libraries make distribution an order of magnitude more annoying.
On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 9:49 PM, Cédric Beust ♔ ced...@beust.com wrote:
On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Jess Holle je...@ptc.com wrote:
Well if they give JavaFX a *really* nice Java API so one can use it from
Java as
OK, if you guys are going to go there (relative popularities of Swing,
SWT, and JavaFX), then here's a thought experiment. Start with the
fact that there are already 80,000 Android apps in the market.
1. Are there more Android apps in the wild than apps built with Swing,
SWT, JavaFX, or Java ME?
Being Java, I have a worrying suspicion which of those three it might be...
On 20 September 2010 23:11, Ricky Clarkson ricky.clark...@gmail.com wrote:
The ideas behind JavaFX (Functional Reactive Programming) are excellent,
and it's not hard to make an implementation even for Java. For Java
On 9/20/10 14:12 , Cédric Beust ♔ wrote:
On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Fabrizio Giudici
fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it mailto:fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it
wrote:
In any case, the large increase of adoption of the NetBeans
Platform in the industry is related to the fact that
it's dead jim.
This is swing2 - which they realy should have talked to the one
remaining user (Jetbrains) about requirements before spending
bazillions wasted on javafx.
On Sep 21, 5:31 am, Jan Goyvaerts™ java.arti...@gmail.com wrote:
Is it going to be Swing's successor then ?
The language
To be fair, Cédric was talking from his experience and said so.
I see questions about Netbeans from newbie Java programmers in freenode's
##java, and my co-worker uses it for one project out of habit (Eclipse for
the others, he has no taste!). Other than that the only contact I have with
In session right now about using alternate VM languages for coding JavaFX...it
is pretty nice. JRuby demo looks slick.
Josh Juneau
juneau...@gmail.com
http://jj-blogger.blogspot.com
http://www.jythonpodcast.com
Twitter ID: javajuneau
On Sep 20, 2010, at 4:04 PM, Ricky Clarkson
Fabrizio,
On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 3:58 PM, Fabrizio Giudici
fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it wrote:
At the risk of being snarky, I'll go ahead and say that just like JavaFX,
the only times I ever hear about NetBeans is during JavaOne or from Sun
employees...
From my experience, NetBeans
Oh, I'm curious now... What languages are they demoing?
On 21 September 2010 00:14, Josh Juneau juneau...@gmail.com wrote:
In session right now about using alternate VM languages for coding
JavaFX...it is pretty nice. JRuby demo looks slick.
Josh Juneau
juneau...@gmail.com
Demoing jruby, clojure, and scala ( haven't gotten there yet). Both jruby and
clojure look slick with javafx.
Josh Juneau
juneau...@gmail.com
http://jj-blogger.blogspot.com
http://www.jythonpodcast.com
Twitter ID: javajuneau
On Sep 20, 2010, at 4:19 PM, Kevin Wright kev.lee.wri...@gmail.com
Heh... You should write some iPhone code... [dealloc]'ing is all we do it
seems sometimes :)
On 21 September 2010 10:45, Augusto Sellhorn augusto.sellh...@gmail.comwrote:
The whole look like native apps was a big waste of time, as the
trend has been for quite a while to create custom UIs.
Sigh. Yes, it's 2010, and we're *still* having pointless SWT vs Swing
debates.
Well, not really debates. Just the same old warhorses reiterating
their entrenched arguments.
* SWT exists and people are using it. Deal with it.
* Swing exists and people are using it. Deal with it.
* JavaFX exists
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