Masalah muncul karena dalam membangun sebuah aplikasi banyak
infastructure code yang berperan. Misal untuk membuat Entity object
di Hibernate agar bisa melakukan operasi Data Access sendiri maka
infrastructure object Hibernate Session harus di-inject ke entity
tersebut. Nah hal ini bukan
2008/11/18 Arif Rachim [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Menggunakan spring tidak akan pernah mencapai level fully OO. Kenapa
tidak akan pernah, sebab akan tetap ada layer dimana kita harus
menempatkan controller, dao bahkan manager.
Layer itu akan selalu ada alasannya adalah separation of concern.
Emang lu
Masalah muncul karena dalam membangun sebuah aplikasi banyak
infastructure code yang berperan. Misal untuk membuat Entity object
di Hibernate agar bisa melakukan operasi Data Access sendiri maka
infrastructure object Hibernate Session harus di-inject ke entity
tersebut. Nah hal ini bukan
sama disini juga
pertama rush mau ke mvc dan ada mimpi mau ke JSF, SpringMVC (yang ini
mau sepertinya), terus ke yang lain
sekarang dikantor kita malah focus to solution rather than framework
coba perhatikan proyek blueoxygen, gak ada teknis lagi sekarang ;)
more solution and management
Why? Because u need to create 5 other classes that u can manage with
xdoclet?
And in reality, you only have to deal with 1 class.
Yes, that means if i have to deal with 20 it becomes 100. Not to
forget create ServiceLocator, and those ejb mapping xml. Which
potentially produce more bugs if i
? design yang kacau bukan?
Gardiary Rukhiat
Newbie http://gardiary.wordpress.com/
--- On *Tue, 11/18/08, Arif Rachim [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote:
From: Arif Rachim [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [JUG-Indonesia] Just clearing the Spring anemic stuff
To: jug-indonesia@yahoogroups.com
Date
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 16:25, Arif Rachim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Why not ?? Domain can grow as the requirement always coming in right.
However I do believe we need to have a scope which will lead us to
modular. Say we have module core.jar, then we have another module
bank.jar, bank.jar
On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 15:45, Arif Rachim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In regards to Manager, and Services.
There's nothing wrong with service.
For example, does transfer money from one account to another account
belong to domain model?
I would think you need to create a FundsTransferService as
http://books.google.com.my/books?id=7dlaMs0SECsCpg=PP4source=gbs_selected_pagescad=0_1
Repositories, Services, Factory are all valid tools.
Why not ?? I see it more elegant if the we have Bank object which has
operation to transfer one account to another. Does it part of domain ?
yes
On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 20:10, Arif Rachim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Why not fit ? If I have an application need to connect to a bank, this
bank configurable so I create bank entity and add functionalities to
transfer one account to another, perfectly make sense
Chances are each bank requires
Chances are each bank requires different kind of integration. They
might even have different web services, different type of object need
to be instantiated, etcs.
It would be very weird if we start creating MayBank implements Bank,
Citibank implements Bank and we're forced to implement all
Err, shouldn't the question be. If a DDD app doesn't use spring will
be easy to maintain.
The answe rwould be yes.
Are you saying if DDD app use spring it will be harder to maintain ??
Lesser code doesn't mean lesser bug. If it's not modeled right at the
beginning. Adding feature
would be
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 13:29, Arif Rachim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I would put it as this way, I should have entity called Bank, i should
have another entity to maintain BankCustomerServiceAgreement. So what
ever logical functionalities with respect to customer and bank service
agreement, I
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 13:47, Arif Rachim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Err, shouldn't the question be. If a DDD app doesn't use spring will
be easy to maintain.
The answe rwould be yes.
Are you saying if DDD app use spring it will be harder to maintain ??
No. I'm saying regardless whether the
Diskusi dengan pengetahuan setengah2 bisa membingungkan mereka yg baru belajar.
I wrote a short blog to clear the issue:
http://www.jroller.com/wiradikusuma/entry/spring_doesn_t_do_anemic
--
salam hangat,
Thomas Wiradikusuma
http://wiradikusuma.blogspot.com/2008/11/congratulations-america.html
Good post!
Hehe, bikin gw tetep suka sama Spring :)
2008/11/18 Thomas Wiradikusuma [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Diskusi dengan pengetahuan setengah2 bisa membingungkan mereka yg baru
belajar.
I wrote a short blog to clear the issue:
http://www.jroller.com/wiradikusuma/entry/spring_doesn_t_do_anemic
It still doesn't give any answer how Spring can do it the OO way like
WebBeans. :-) Some samples perhaps?
2008/11/18 Thomas Wiradikusuma [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Diskusi dengan pengetahuan setengah2 bisa membingungkan mereka yg baru
belajar.
I wrote a short blog to clear the issue:
2008/11/18 Joshua Partogi [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
It still doesn't give any answer how Spring can do it the OO way like
WebBeans. :-) Some samples perhaps?
What's the problem with Spring way?
Personally, I find spring + DDD = OO.
To proof it, look at ddd sample project.
URL:
Menggunakan spring tidak akan pernah mencapai level fully OO. Kenapa
tidak akan pernah, sebab akan tetap ada layer dimana kita harus
menempatkan controller, dao bahkan manager.
Buktinya :
Liat contoh dddsample masih ada yg namanya facade. Controller dll.
Controller melakukan validasi dll dll,
Mungkin yg perlu diklarifikasi disini adalah, spring does not do
anemic. But all spring samples are anemic.
Spring men-drag user membuat anemic object. Webbeans meng-encourage
user membuat DDD.
Membandingkannya gampang kok :)
Kita kan sama2 developer jadi konkrit ngebandingiinnya :
Kalau saya
lah boz, mank mvc layer uda ditinggalkan, kok cuman buat layer view ama
entity doank di webbeans ?
entity nya itu dikotorin API webbeans nya gak ?
tolong dijelaskan... maklum n00b
Arif Rachim wrote:
Mungkin yg perlu diklarifikasi disini adalah, spring does not do
anemic. But all spring samples
Definisi mengkotori apa ? apakah aplikasi kita tergantung sama jar nya
webbeans gitu ?? jawaban untuk ini Tidak ! :) tapi memang applikasi
kita ada annotation webbeansnya.
Kalau kita buat object webbeans, memang kita menggunakan annotation
dari webbeans, tetapi bukan berarti aplikasi kita tightly
2008/11/18 Arif Rachim [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Menggunakan spring tidak akan pernah mencapai level fully OO. Kenapa
tidak akan pernah, sebab akan tetap ada layer dimana kita harus
menempatkan controller, dao bahkan manager.
Err. Di OO, validasi juga masih dilakukan sama domain model tersebut.
Note:
I agree with Arif, the samples in many frameworks (not just spring)
can be teaching you things wrongfully.
I managed to blog about this ;-)
http://www.jroller.com/wiradikusuma/entry/samples_authors_are_responsible_for
2008/11/18 Arif Rachim [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Mungkin yg perlu diklarifikasi
2008/11/19 Arif Rachim [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Mungkin yg perlu diklarifikasi disini adalah, spring does not do
anemic. But all spring samples are anemic.
Spring men-drag user membuat anemic object. Webbeans meng-encourage
user membuat DDD.
Membandingkannya gampang kok :)
Kita kan sama2
On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 12:32 AM, Edward Yakop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
2008/11/18 Joshua Partogi [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
It still doesn't give any answer how Spring can do it the OO way like
WebBeans. :-) Some samples perhaps?
What's the problem with Spring way?
The problem is it is really
2008/11/19 Joshua Partogi [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
You wouldn't want to place your EntityManager inside your domain
model. You would need another layer for doing business logic. But
fortunately in WebBeans this same layer can be used as a controller.
If that part of business logic belong to the
Saya melihat bahwa yg dimaksud edward dimulai dari pemisahan antara
domain dan service layer yang digunakan sebagai bootstrap
sebagaimana umumnya aplikasi spring. Sedangkan, saya mencoba
men-emphasize hubungan antara DDD dengan presentation layer yang
seharusnya bisa saling complementary. Makanya
Pertanyaannya kenapa tidak ?? :). Bukankah lebih bagus kalau kita
punya domain object seperti user.persist(), atau user.update(), akan
automatically menyimpan state dirinya sendiri ke database ?? from
client point of view ini bener2 bersih. Tidak ada campur tangan
manager, tidak ada campur tangan
2008/11/19 Arif Rachim [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Artinya kita bisa gunakan distanceHomeToOffice as our webbeans
producer, simpan kedalam context, dan digunakan oleh presentation
layer. Sebaliknya Object user di inject username dan password dari
presentation oleh webbeans, sehinga seamlessly kita bisa
Lastly controller. MVC is a valid design pattern.
There's nothing wrong with it.
Regards,
Edward Yakop
dear All,
saya cuma mau menanggapi spring vs webbeans aja.
menurut saya hal ini tidak bisa dibandingkan atau diperdebatkan.
CMIIW, karena saya juga masih belajar.
Spring itu menggunakan
.
Best Regards,
Andi Kusnadi,Skom
0813 1883 92 37
programmer .net, java, streamezzo
From: Fitri Yolanda [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: jug-indonesia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:34:55 AM
Subject: Re: [JUG-Indonesia] Just clearing the Spring anemic
Btw, kalo aplikasi aa gak pake framework apapun. gak pake webbeans.
Designnya disebut apa yaa? design yang kacau bukan?
Gardiary Rukhiat
Newbie
--- On Tue, 11/18/08, Arif Rachim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Arif Rachim [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [JUG-Indonesia] Just clearing the Spring
And how this can't be achieved by Spring too? I just don't get the argument.
EntityManager can be injected.. No problemo.
I did not said it can not, i said spring approach will drag you to
create anemic object.
And for user and password, if I would model it. Password property
would not be
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