[jvm-l] Re: Trying to apply various techniques of new JS runtimes to JVM dynamic languages

2008-09-05 Thread Charles Oliver Nutter
Randall R Schulz wrote: Given the heavy use of Maps in Groovy and Grails, this sort of technique would seem to benefit them, too, if it or something like it is applicable or can be adapted. It definitely could, but only in places where those maps aren't being directly exposed as maps. The

[jvm-l] Re: Trying to apply various techniques of new JS runtimes to JVM dynamic languages

2008-09-05 Thread John Rose
On Sep 5, 2008, at 1:37 PM, Charles Oliver Nutter wrote: It definitely could, but only in places where those maps aren't being directly exposed as maps. The minute a map-like structure escapes a predetermined scope, you lose the ability to track it well. Yes, but here's a hack awaiting an

[jvm-l] Re: Trying to apply various techniques of new JS runtimes to JVM dynamic languages

2008-09-04 Thread Martin Probst
Hi, My understanding of this optimization in V8 is that it's laser- targeted at probably the biggest bottleneck of Javascript: property lookup. Excuse my curiosity, but my basic understanding of this optimization is like this: in JS, you don't have classes, so every object is

[jvm-l] Re: Trying to apply various techniques of new JS runtimes to JVM dynamic languages

2008-09-04 Thread Attila Szegedi
On Sep 4, 2008, at 12:29 AM, Charles Oliver Nutter wrote: Attila Szegedi wrote: So, on the first sight, it appears to me that TraceMonkey's type specialization is the one feature from these three new JS engines that would make sense in JVM dynamic language runtimes. I've toyed with

[jvm-l] Re: Trying to apply various techniques of new JS runtimes to JVM dynamic languages

2008-09-04 Thread John Wilson
On 9/4/08, Martin Probst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, My understanding of this optimization in V8 is that it's laser- targeted at probably the biggest bottleneck of Javascript: property lookup. Excuse my curiosity, but my basic understanding of this optimization is like this:

[jvm-l] Re: Trying to apply various techniques of new JS runtimes to JVM dynamic languages

2008-09-04 Thread Attila Szegedi
On Sep 4, 2008, at 1:05 PM, John Wilson wrote: The fact that Javascript does not support threads considerably simplifies the situation. Well, JS as such has no threading or other concurrency primitives, this much is true. But you can have a JS environment where a program accesses objects

[jvm-l] Re: Trying to apply various techniques of new JS runtimes to JVM dynamic languages

2008-09-04 Thread Attila Szegedi
On Sep 3, 2008, at 11:56 PM, John Rose wrote: On Sep 3, 2008, at 2:23 PM, Attila Szegedi wrote: Well, we certainly live in interesting times, at least as far as JavaScript runtimes go... To paraphrase a loan commercial: When VMs compete, language implementors win. TraceMonkey's type

[jvm-l] Re: Trying to apply various techniques of new JS runtimes to JVM dynamic languages

2008-09-04 Thread Rastislav Kassak
On 9/4/08, Martin Probst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, My understanding of this optimization in V8 is that it's laser- targeted at probably the biggest bottleneck of Javascript: property lookup. Excuse my curiosity, but my basic understanding of this optimization is like this:

[jvm-l] Re: Trying to apply various techniques of new JS runtimes to JVM dynamic languages

2008-09-04 Thread Charles Oliver Nutter
Martin Probst wrote: Now when you have a class based language like Python or Ruby, you already have these sets of similar things where the same property names resolve to the same things (the classes). I.e. if your foo.bar statements gets hit with foo being a specific instance, you can

[jvm-l] Re: Trying to apply various techniques of new JS runtimes to JVM dynamic languages

2008-09-03 Thread Randall R Schulz
On Wednesday 03 September 2008 14:23, Attila Szegedi wrote: Well, we certainly live in interesting times, at least as far as JavaScript runtimes go... Just recently, WebKit got SquirelFish. ... Then, Mozilla brings out TraceMonkey, ... Finally, yesterday Google unveils V8, which, ...,

[jvm-l] Re: Trying to apply various techniques of new JS runtimes to JVM dynamic languages

2008-09-03 Thread John Rose
On Sep 3, 2008, at 2:23 PM, Attila Szegedi wrote: Well, we certainly live in interesting times, at least as far as JavaScript runtimes go... To paraphrase a loan commercial: When VMs compete, language implementors win. TraceMonkey's type specialization seems like something that'd make

[jvm-l] Re: Trying to apply various techniques of new JS runtimes to JVM dynamic languages

2008-09-03 Thread Charles Oliver Nutter
Randall R Schulz wrote: I read the press release yesterday (probably the most informative comic I've ever seen, not that I'm a big comic book... I mean graphic novel reader) but I don't think I can see right off how inferring a class structure from a lot of instances with similar attribute

[jvm-l] Re: Trying to apply various techniques of new JS runtimes to JVM dynamic languages

2008-09-03 Thread Charles Oliver Nutter
John Rose wrote: The V8 technique sounds like a successor to Self's internal classing mechanism; it sounds more retroactive. A key advantage of such things is removal of indirections and search. If you want the foo slot of an object in a prototype based language, it's better if the