Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Really 8,000 words more for Master%

[Dwayne Bailey]

Hi All,

I'm jumping on behalf of the Pootle developers, as we seem to have multiple
threads and issues happening at once, and not all of them actually relate
to Pootle:

1. Everything going fuzzy/untranslated because of context change.  I agree
I wouldn't like this as a translator especially if these are just string
moves.  There are ways to script such things in the PO files to prevent
them being loaded as fuzzy. We're reaching out to the TDF l10n team to see
how we can help in future and to see if we can't clean this up for the
current change.

2. Some strings being removed from PO but still showing on Pootle, we're
investigating how this might have happened.  We've done extensive testing
in this area so we're surprised this is happening but will look at the
factors.  TDF server is large so it does take some time to update.

3. Uploads.  Please let us know when these happen, it often it a matter of
tuning the upload size and timeout but hearing after the fact doesn't help
us.  Let us know straight away please.  At the moment I expect uploads to
be difficult because of the initialisation of new PO files on the server.
Waiting till that is complete will likely be a better option.

Trust that helps give some clarity.  And I trust give some clarity as to
where Pootle is involved in this process.



On 14 April 2017 at 12:04, Baurzhan Muftakhidinov 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> BTW when I try to upload large file, I always get 504 gateway timeout
> error,
> I used formula/source/core/resource.po file in Kazakh (kk) version.
> In fact this PO does not require translation, I just copied the
> messages to translations,
> since those are all formulas.
> But now I am unable to upload it to Pootle,
>
> On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 11:33 PM, Sophia Schroeder
>  wrote:
> > I am Sophia(S), not Sophie Gautier,
> >
> > I hope you don't confuse us two. ;-)
> >
> > And I am relatively new and maybe overenthusiastic here with my
> contribution part.
> > I was lurking around OOo / LO since beginning.
> >
> >> Michael Bauer  hat am 13. April 2017 um 20:21
> geschrieben:
> >>
> >> Hi Sophie,
> >>
> >> I know, sorry if you felt this was aimed at you - it wasn't -
> though I am quite certain your assessment was correct, which is why I
> "replied" to your post. It was aimed at whoever is letting this happen
> again and again and again. This has been a complaint for as long as I can
> remember on LO and I'm somewhere between gutted and furious that it's still
> happening. Sure, maybe a locale like German or French has the translators
> to throw at another 28k of work that was already done but most locales
> aren't that fortunate. Take Uyghur, it was at 97% when OO and LO split.
> There hasn't been much translation activity in this locale in both OO and
> LO since and there haven't been *that* many genuinely new strings in LO
> actually but that has left Uyghur on 61% and if I click through the strings
> on Uyghur, it's one 100% match after the other.
> >>
> >> Yes, this is an angry post (not angry at Sophia) but before someone
> slaps me down for being angry, maybe ask yourself at which point getting
> angry is justified in a FOSS project when someone somewhere for some arcane
> reason keeps wasting your lifetime as if it didn't matter. Do we really
> want to burn out localizers like they were a dime a dozen?
> >>
> >> Michael
> >>
> >> Sgrìobh Sophia Schroeder na leanas 13/04/2017 aig 19:05:
> >>
> >> > >
> >> > Hi Michael, *
> >> >
> >> > I am the wrong person to give you proper answers. Am just a
> translator like you.
> >> >
> >> > I just wrote from my personal POV and vague knowledge from
> what I'm getting.
> >> >
> >> > Christian Lohmaier is the right reference person for such
> things.
> >> >
> >> > So look at his mails about this issues. :-)
> >> >
> >> > > --
> >> Akerbeltz http://www.faclair.com/
> >> Goireasan Gàidhlig air an lìon
> >> Fòn: +44-141-946 4437
> >> Facs: +44-141-945 2701
> >>
> >> Tha Gàidhlig aig a' choimpiutair agad, siuthad, feuch e!
> >> Iomadh rud eadar prògraman oifis, brabhsairean, predictive texting,
> >> geamannan is mòran a bharrachd. Tadhail oirnn aig www.iGàidhlig.net
>  http://www.iGaidhlig.net/
> >>
> >
> >
> > Regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
> > Sophia Schroeder
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
> > Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-
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>
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Really 8,000 words more for Master%

[Baurzhan Muftakhidinov]

Hi all,

BTW when I try to upload large file, I always get 504 gateway timeout error,
I used formula/source/core/resource.po file in Kazakh (kk) version.
In fact this PO does not require translation, I just copied the
messages to translations,
since those are all formulas.
But now I am unable to upload it to Pootle,

On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 11:33 PM, Sophia Schroeder
 wrote:
> I am Sophia(S), not Sophie Gautier,
>
> I hope you don't confuse us two. ;-)
>
> And I am relatively new and maybe overenthusiastic here with my contribution 
> part.
> I was lurking around OOo / LO since beginning.
>
>> Michael Bauer  hat am 13. April 2017 um 20:21 
>> geschrieben:
>>
>> Hi Sophie,
>>
>> I know, sorry if you felt this was aimed at you - it wasn't - though I 
>> am quite certain your assessment was correct, which is why I "replied" to 
>> your post. It was aimed at whoever is letting this happen again and again 
>> and again. This has been a complaint for as long as I can remember on LO and 
>> I'm somewhere between gutted and furious that it's still happening. Sure, 
>> maybe a locale like German or French has the translators to throw at another 
>> 28k of work that was already done but most locales aren't that fortunate. 
>> Take Uyghur, it was at 97% when OO and LO split. There hasn't been much 
>> translation activity in this locale in both OO and LO since and there 
>> haven't been *that* many genuinely new strings in LO actually but that has 
>> left Uyghur on 61% and if I click through the strings on Uyghur, it's one 
>> 100% match after the other.
>>
>> Yes, this is an angry post (not angry at Sophia) but before someone 
>> slaps me down for being angry, maybe ask yourself at which point getting 
>> angry is justified in a FOSS project when someone somewhere for some arcane 
>> reason keeps wasting your lifetime as if it didn't matter. Do we really want 
>> to burn out localizers like they were a dime a dozen?
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> Sgrìobh Sophia Schroeder na leanas 13/04/2017 aig 19:05:
>>
>> > >
>> > Hi Michael, *
>> >
>> > I am the wrong person to give you proper answers. Am just a 
>> > translator like you.
>> >
>> > I just wrote from my personal POV and vague knowledge from what 
>> > I'm getting.
>> >
>> > Christian Lohmaier is the right reference person for such things.
>> >
>> > So look at his mails about this issues. :-)
>> >
>> > > --
>> Akerbeltz http://www.faclair.com/
>> Goireasan Gàidhlig air an lìon
>> Fòn: +44-141-946 4437
>> Facs: +44-141-945 2701
>>
>> Tha Gàidhlig aig a' choimpiutair agad, siuthad, feuch e!
>> Iomadh rud eadar prògraman oifis, brabhsairean, predictive texting,
>> geamannan is mòran a bharrachd. Tadhail oirnn aig www.iGàidhlig.net 
>> http://www.iGaidhlig.net/
>>
>
>
> Regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
> Sophia Schroeder
>
> --
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Really 8,000 words more for Master%

[Sophia Schroeder]

I am Sophia(S), not Sophie Gautier,

I hope you don't confuse us two. ;-)

And I am relatively new and maybe overenthusiastic here with my contribution 
part.
I was lurking around OOo / LO since beginning.

> Michael Bauer  hat am 13. April 2017 um 20:21 geschrieben:
> 
> Hi Sophie,
> 
> I know, sorry if you felt this was aimed at you - it wasn't - though I am 
> quite certain your assessment was correct, which is why I "replied" to your 
> post. It was aimed at whoever is letting this happen again and again and 
> again. This has been a complaint for as long as I can remember on LO and I'm 
> somewhere between gutted and furious that it's still happening. Sure, maybe a 
> locale like German or French has the translators to throw at another 28k of 
> work that was already done but most locales aren't that fortunate. Take 
> Uyghur, it was at 97% when OO and LO split. There hasn't been much 
> translation activity in this locale in both OO and LO since and there haven't 
> been *that* many genuinely new strings in LO actually but that has left 
> Uyghur on 61% and if I click through the strings on Uyghur, it's one 100% 
> match after the other.
> 
> Yes, this is an angry post (not angry at Sophia) but before someone slaps 
> me down for being angry, maybe ask yourself at which point getting angry is 
> justified in a FOSS project when someone somewhere for some arcane reason 
> keeps wasting your lifetime as if it didn't matter. Do we really want to burn 
> out localizers like they were a dime a dozen?
> 
> Michael
> 
> Sgrìobh Sophia Schroeder na leanas 13/04/2017 aig 19:05:
> 
> > > 
> > Hi Michael, *
> > 
> > I am the wrong person to give you proper answers. Am just a 
> > translator like you.
> > 
> > I just wrote from my personal POV and vague knowledge from what I'm 
> > getting.
> > 
> > Christian Lohmaier is the right reference person for such things.
> > 
> > So look at his mails about this issues. :-)
> > 
> > > --
> Akerbeltz http://www.faclair.com/
> Goireasan Gàidhlig air an lìon
> Fòn: +44-141-946 4437
> Facs: +44-141-945 2701
> 
> Tha Gàidhlig aig a' choimpiutair agad, siuthad, feuch e!
> Iomadh rud eadar prògraman oifis, brabhsairean, predictive texting,
> geamannan is mòran a bharrachd. Tadhail oirnn aig www.iGàidhlig.net 
> http://www.iGaidhlig.net/
> 


Regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Sophia Schroeder

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Really 8,000 words more for Master%

[Sophie Gautier]

Hi Michael,
I'm in the middle of a meeting, so making it short for now to correct one
thing. Until last year I was alone to maintain the FR translation and now
we are 2. So the pain is the same for quite everybody here. I spend nights
on it because my government, large and small companies, association etc.
are depending on it.
We are investigating with Cloph where the problem is lying. I will keep you
updated later tonight when I'll be back home.
Cheers
Sophie

Le 13 avr. 2017 20:21, "Michael Bauer"  a écrit :

> Hi Sophie,
>
> I know, sorry if you felt this was aimed at you - it wasn't - though I am
> quite certain your assessment was correct, which is why I "replied" to your
> post. It was aimed at whoever is letting this happen again and again and
> again. This has been a complaint for as long as I can remember on LO and
> I'm somewhere between gutted and furious that it's still happening. Sure,
> maybe a locale like German or French has the translators to throw at
> another 28k of work that was already done but most locales aren't that
> fortunate. Take Uyghur, it was at 97% when OO and LO split. There hasn't
> been much translation activity in this locale in both OO and LO since and
> there haven't been *that* many genuinely new strings in LO actually but
> that has left Uyghur on 61% and if I click through the strings on Uyghur,
> it's one 100% match after the other.
>
> Yes, this is an angry post (not angry at Sophia) but before someone slaps
> me down for being angry, maybe ask yourself at which point getting angry is
> justified in a FOSS project when someone somewhere for some arcane reason
> keeps wasting your lifetime as if it didn't matter. Do we really want to
> burn out localizers like they were a dime a dozen?
>
> Michael
>
> Sgrìobh Sophia Schroeder na leanas 13/04/2017 aig 19:05:
>
>>
>> Hi Michael, *
>>
>> I am the wrong person to give you proper answers. Am just a translator
>> like you.
>>
>> I just wrote from my personal POV and vague knowledge from what I'm
>> getting.
>>
>> Christian Lohmaier is the right reference person for such things.
>>
>> So look at his mails about this issues. :-)
>>
>>
> --
> *Akerbeltz *
> Goireasan Gàidhlig air an lìon
> Fòn: +44-141-946 4437
> Facs: +44-141-945 2701
>
> *Tha Gàidhlig aig a' choimpiutair agad, siuthad, feuch e!*
> Iomadh rud eadar prògraman oifis, brabhsairean, predictive texting,
> geamannan is mòran a bharrachd. Tadhail oirnn aig www.iGàidhlig.net
>  
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
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> ubscribe/
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Really 8,000 words more for Master%

[Michael Bauer]

Hi Sophie,

I know, sorry if you felt this was aimed at you - it wasn't - though I 
am quite certain your assessment was correct, which is why I "replied" 
to your post. It was aimed at whoever is letting this happen again and 
again and again. This has been a complaint for as long as I can remember 
on LO and I'm somewhere between gutted and furious that it's still 
happening. Sure, maybe a locale like German or French has the 
translators to throw at another 28k of work that was already done but 
most locales aren't that fortunate. Take Uyghur, it was at 97% when OO 
and LO split. There hasn't been much translation activity in this locale 
in both OO and LO since and there haven't been *that* many genuinely new 
strings in LO actually but that has left Uyghur on 61% and if I click 
through the strings on Uyghur, it's one 100% match after the other.


Yes, this is an angry post (not angry at Sophia) but before someone 
slaps me down for being angry, maybe ask yourself at which point getting 
angry is justified in a FOSS project when someone somewhere for some 
arcane reason keeps wasting your lifetime as if it didn't matter. Do we 
really want to burn out localizers like they were a dime a dozen?


Michael

Sgrìobh Sophia Schroeder na leanas 13/04/2017 aig 19:05:


Hi Michael, *

I am the wrong person to give you proper answers. Am just a translator 
like you.


I just wrote from my personal POV and vague knowledge from what I'm 
getting.


Christian Lohmaier is the right reference person for such things.

So look at his mails about this issues. :-)



--
*Akerbeltz *
Goireasan Gàidhlig air an lìon
Fòn: +44-141-946 4437
Facs: +44-141-945 2701

*Tha Gàidhlig aig a' choimpiutair agad, siuthad, feuch e!*
Iomadh rud eadar prògraman oifis, brabhsairean, predictive texting,
geamannan is mòran a bharrachd. Tadhail oirnn aig www.iGàidhlig.net 



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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Really 8,000 words more for Master%

[Sophia Schroeder]

Hi Michael, *

I am the wrong person to give you proper answers. Am just a translator like you.

I just wrote from my personal POV and vague knowledge from what I'm getting.

Christian Lohmaier is the right reference person for such things.

So look at his mails about this issues. :-)


> 
> Michael Bauer  hat am 13. April 2017 um 19:34 
> geschrieben:
> 
> This is getting absurd. I had just about gotten the last batch of
> updates down to about 2k, most of which were I-don't-know-what changes
> which left a high number of translated strings fuzzy. Now Gaelic is back
> up to 28k and clicking through them, it looks like almost all are 100%
> TM matches somewhere.
> 
> How is this even vaguely respectful of translator time?
> 
> Right now, I'm not so sure that it's worth my time translating further
> cause I'm not translating, am I? I'm a human TM-match-insertion-tool.
> 
> Michael
> 
> Sgrìobh Sophia Schroeder na leanas 13/04/2017 aig 17:04:
> 
> > > 
> > Some of them are already translated somewhere and are still in the 
> > translation memory system.
> > 
> > Unfortunately there is no automatic tool (yet) to put these given 
> > translations into the new strings and be done.
> > 
> > Yes it is worth to translate even further.;-)
> > 
> > > 
> --
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> 


Regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Sophia Schroeder

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Really 8,000 words more for Master%

[Michael Bauer]

This is getting absurd. I had just about gotten the last batch of 
updates down to about 2k, most of which were I-don't-know-what changes 
which left a high number of translated strings fuzzy. Now Gaelic is back 
up to 28k and clicking through them, it looks like almost all are 100% 
TM matches somewhere.


How is this even vaguely respectful of translator time?

Right now, I'm not so sure that it's worth my time translating further 
cause I'm not translating, am I? I'm a human TM-match-insertion-tool.


Michael

Sgrìobh Sophia Schroeder na leanas 13/04/2017 aig 17:04:

Some of them are already translated somewhere and are still in the translation 
memory system.

Unfortunately there is no automatic tool (yet) to put these given translations 
into the new strings and be done.

Yes it is worth to translate even further.;-)



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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Really 8,000 words more for Master%

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi  Michael,

On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 5:44 PM, Michael Wolf  wrote:
> Sophia Schroeder schrieb:
>>
>> Hi Michael, *,
>>
>> Pootle updates on master are still work in progress (read: ongoing).
>>
>> Keep cool and relaxed. ;-)
>>
>
> Hi Sophia,
>
> what does it mean? Are the stats reliable or not?

Stats in terms of total wordcount are  unreliable, in terms of
untranslated it should be OK (at least from first glance, see last
mail, seems only already translated strings were not removed properly)

> Can I keep translating or,
> could it be that the translation of the new strings will be a waste of time?

There *might* be some autotranslations of the strings with only
context-changes, but don't hold your breath for that.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Really 8,000 words more for Master%

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Michael, *,

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 9:31 PM, Michael Wolf  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've just seen that there are suddenly app. 8,000 words more for Master in
> Upper Sorbian. Now there are 109,283 words, previously 101,873.

The increase in total works is fishy, pootle did not remove strings
that were removed from files.

> Lower
> Sorbian shows less words now, 99,243, previously 101,028, I think. What has
> happened here? Did you mix Upper Sorbian and Lower Sorbian? Why do these
> languages have a different number of English words?

I assume only translated strings  are affected, i.e. translated
strings, but removed from templates →  still listed in pootle.

e.g 
https://translations.documentfoundation.org/de/libo_ui/translate/starmath/source.po#unit=79252016
→ the Color Fuchsia was removed (and is removed  from the files on
disk, there it is an obsolete string for de)

Strings not kept for Friulian on the other hand that did not have this
translated.

It is also not that it would add *all* obsolete strings,  as in case
for german there are many more obsolete strings that were not
(re-)added.

So there's a bug in removing translations from webinterface/database.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Really 8,000 words more for Master%

[Sophia Schroeder]

Hi Michael, *

as cloph already mentioned, sources of some strings had been changed.

Some of them are already translated somewhere and are still in the translation 
memory system.

Unfortunately there is no automatic tool (yet) to put these given translations 
into the new strings and be done.

Yes it is worth to translate even further. ;-)

> 
> Michael Wolf  hat am 13. April 2017 um 17:44 
> geschrieben:
> 
> Sophia Schroeder schrieb:
> 
> > > 
> > Hi Michael, *,
> > 
> > Pootle updates on master are still work in progress (read: ongoing).
> > 
> > Keep cool and relaxed. ;-)
> > 
> > > 
> Hi Sophia,
> 
> what does it mean? Are the stats reliable or not? Can I keep translating
> or, could it be that the translation of the new strings will be a waste
> of time?
> 
> Michael
> 
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Regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Sophia Schroeder

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Really 8,000 words more for Master%

[Michael Wolf]

Sophia Schroeder schrieb:

Hi Michael, *,

Pootle updates on master are still work in progress (read: ongoing).

Keep cool and relaxed. ;-)



Hi Sophia,

what does it mean? Are the stats reliable or not? Can I keep translating 
or, could it be that the translation of the new strings will be a waste 
of time?


Michael

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Really 8,000 words more for Master%

[Sophia Schroeder]

Hi Michael, *,

Pootle updates on master are still work in progress (read: ongoing).

Keep cool and relaxed. ;-)

> Michael Wolf  hat am 12. April 2017 um 21:31 geschrieben:
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I've just seen that there are suddenly app. 8,000 words more for Master 
> in Upper Sorbian. Now there are 109,283 words, previously 101,873. Lower 
> Sorbian shows less words now, 99,243, previously 101,028, I think. What 
> has happened here? Did you mix Upper Sorbian and Lower Sorbian? Why do 
> these languages have a different number of English words?

rgds
Sophia Schroeder

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[libreoffice-l10n] Really 8,000 words more for Master%

[Michael Wolf]

Hi,

I've just seen that there are suddenly app. 8,000 words more for Master 
in Upper Sorbian. Now there are 109,283 words, previously 101,873. Lower 
Sorbian shows less words now, 99,243, previously 101,028, I think. What 
has happened here? Did you mix Upper Sorbian and Lower Sorbian? Why do 
these languages have a different number of English words?


Michael

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