RE: [Leaf-devel] Re: Webbased configuration
I must say your description of Fourth sounds great. I have to agree with all your desires in a language for these purposes. As to the Lego M's, though mine have been on the shelf for at least a year, you are always a kid if you choose to be! Mine were a gift from my wife! :-) I have played with the C like language on it, but not Fourth Richard -Original Message- From: Charles Steinkuehler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sat 8/31/2002 9:55 AM To: Nathan Angelacos; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Subject: Re: [Leaf-devel] Re: Webbased configuration Better sense tells me I should probably keep quiet, but ... Nah...speak up. We won't even flame you here! Back when this discussion came up previously (Dec 2001/Jan 2002?) I was able to get micro_httpd working with an embedded lua interpreter. It allows one to write html code with inline lua scripting, like php. To add some real numbers to this dicussion: micro_httpd - dynamically linked against libc9404 bytes lua_micro_httpd dynamic libc, static lualib 75972 bytes Compressing with upx gets it to 39K, which is still big for a diskette-based configuration engine. If FORTH can really get us an embedded language in 10K, that sounds great. I'll check the site Charles mentioned tomorrow; any other pointers anyone can give - please share! (I'm not a coder - but don't mind getting my fingers burned either...) I like LUA (haven't programmed anything real in it, but I've gone over the docs pretty well, and compiled the stand-alone LUA interpreter). I think it's excellent at its targeted application (a scripting language for complex programs), but is not particularly well suited to being added to the core of a LEAF distribution for a few reasons: Size - While fairly small for a scripting language (vs perl, python, etc), LUA is still pretty large. Requires libc - Not a show-stopper...almost all parts of LEAF require libc, but I'd like to have a light-weight scripting language that could boot w/o libc to enable some potentially complex booting scenarios that have been discussed previously, like run-time selection of libc version, mixed libc environments (ie a base system running off ulibc, with optional add-ons using gnu libc), and similar. We already have sh - While more powerful than ash in several respects (especially with handling numbers), I don't think LUA provides dramatically more functionality than is available with standard shell-scripts...especially if a light-weight numeric processing tool was provided to extend ash's native abilities in this regard. Untyped - I especially don't like the fact that LUA is untyped (strong integer floating point math capability is one of the key things I miss when programming in shell-script). I may be missing something with LUA since I don't have much experience with it, but as an example, I'd like to know how well a numeric processing program (like rrdtool or MRTG) would code in LUA. This is one of the things I'd like to code in a small script for LEAF, but have not attempted due to the limited numeric processing available in sh. LUA is definately better with math than sh, I just don't think it goes far enough. No linux syscalls - There is no inherent capabilitiy to directly make linux syscalls, and given LUA's untyped data structures, grafting on this ability would likely be difficult. With the ability to directly make linux syscalls, not only is the requirement for libc drastically reduced (or eliminated), but ti becomes possible to script things like a full-fledged web-server, e-mail sending program, or other network based program, and it also becomes possible to script core utilities (like su, chroot, etc) if desired. Forth: Tiny - about 1/4 the size of LUA No libc required - works on any system, even at bootstrap with an initrd in the 10's of K, rather than 500K+ low-level-power - While still considered a scripting language, Forth has the ability (and was initially designed) to do low-level machine controllike c, you get the ability to talk directly to the machine...unlike c, you have small programs, no compile required, and no libc required (at the expense of somewhat slower execution and coding your own library routines).
[Leaf-devel] Webbased configuration
Mike you seem to be knowledgeable about the copyright stuff. I am about to paint an entry page for the config stuff and would like to use the LEAF logo for it. Is there a problem? Thanks Erich THINK Püntenstrasse 39 8143 Stallikon mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP Fingerprint: BC9A 25BC 3954 3BC8 C024 8D8A B7D4 FF9D 05B8 0A16 --- This sf.net email is sponsored by: OSDN - Tired of that same old cell phone? Get a new here for FREE! https://www.inphonic.com/r.asp?r=sourceforge1refcode1=vs3390 ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] Webbased configuration
On Sun, 2002-09-01 at 13:08, Erich Titl wrote: you seem to be knowledgeable about the copyright stuff. I am about to paint an entry page for the config stuff and would like to use the LEAF logo for it. Is there a problem? Erich, Since I created it there is no problem. It can be used for anything that wouldn't upset our project members. Your proposed use is fine with me. BTW, I just added the Gimp xcf source file to our cvs repository, so you can generate the desired graphic size and format. Enjoy. http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/leaf/devel/mhnoyes/phpwebsite/logo/ Note: we may want to have another logo contest in the future. We have more people associated with our project now. I'm sure many of them are better at graphic design than I am. -- Mike Noyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ http://leaf-project.org/ --- This sf.net email is sponsored by: OSDN - Tired of that same old cell phone? Get a new here for FREE! https://www.inphonic.com/r.asp?r=sourceforge1refcode1=vs3390 ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] Re: Webbased configuration
On Sunday 01 September 2002 09:58, Nathan Angelacos wrote: Hey Lynn, thanks for your comments. I guess we are approaching this from slightly different starting assumptions. My assumption is that the webbased configuration engine is just a pretty face on lrcfg. The model I'm thinking of is you buy a linksys router, you plug it in to your LAN, look at the sticker on the router, and it says that if you point your web browser at 192.168.0.254, you'll get the configuration web page. No passwords - you're in as admininstrator, configuring the router for first use. All it is doing is editing the equivalent of /etc/interfaces; /etc/network.conf or whatever, and then bringing up the interface. Right? Similarly, we could say that the security of lrcfg is the strength of your root password for the internal interface, and whether you allow inbound telnet or ssh on your external interface. Once the someone gets in as root, I really don't care if he abuses lrcfg - he already owns the box. :-) I'm following you now that makes since and it would make it necessary to bring up the default (index?) page as a login only page (duh!). There may (or may not) be a defaut password to enter the configuration menu via www. It would also be advisable to run the server on something like port 81 so it would not be as likely to be accidentally accessed in the first place. snip I agree with the rest of what your saying... I was taking several steps further than you intended to in the application itself. Thx for clarifying! -- ~Lynn Avants aka Guitarlynn guitarlynn at users.sourceforge.net http://leaf.sourceforge.net If linux isn't the answer, you've probably got the wrong question! --- This sf.net email is sponsored by: OSDN - Tired of that same old cell phone? Get a new here for FREE! https://www.inphonic.com/r.asp?r=sourceforge1refcode1=vs3390 ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] Webbased configuration
On Sunday 01 September 2002 15:08, Erich Titl wrote: Mike you seem to be knowledgeable about the copyright stuff. I am about to paint an entry page for the config stuff and would like to use the LEAF logo for it. Is there a problem? Erich, Would you mind getting with Richard Amerman and working on the the www page format. Richard has already done quite a bit of work stream lining the existing Weblet page code. Possibly the two of you can create the front-end of a menu system a little easier by bouncing ideas/code together. I think Charles' existing code, that uses Jscript for setting up the graphical end is an excellent idea that saves some space. Mosquito is using a Frame setup (shudder!) built from Jscript that works quite well (GPL'ed). There might be some ideas from examining that code as well. I would believe we will want to use xml (or xhtml 1.x) compliant code in the html...possibly CSS style-sheets with the POST form method (to avoid more code to interpret GET and the 255 character limit). I have sent Charles a copy of James Sturdevant's POST patched sh-httpd application that will be available via LEAF CVS when Charles commits it to CVS. If you need a copy of it to work with before then, mail me off-list and I'll send you a copy. Does anyone else have any ideas, thoughts, or comments on this since both Erich and Richard have been doing work for some time on the interface end of the project. -- ~Lynn Avants aka Guitarlynn guitarlynn at users.sourceforge.net http://leaf.sourceforge.net If linux isn't the answer, you've probably got the wrong question! --- This sf.net email is sponsored by: OSDN - Tired of that same old cell phone? Get a new here for FREE! https://www.inphonic.com/r.asp?r=sourceforge1refcode1=vs3390 ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
RE: [Leaf-devel] Webbased configuration
I need to get my head back into it. I think I had a bit more work done than I had yet
deployed to my WebletDemo site. I also think that machine might be down. I will
check this week. I am particularly interested in working on the front end of things
for the moment as I have some momentem there, but I am slamed on my current project
for at least the next week or two. I will try to get my latest up on the WebletDemo
site and get it back up. The site has the built in ability to both view and download
it's source. We can take a look at how far I have gotten and decide if it is on track
and ready to put in CVS. I have mainly been working on abstracting everything so that
it is easy to construct content in a dynamic way. I'm interested in modules that
include the configuration piece, but also inhanced log viewes, live statistics in as
much of a dashboard fashion as possible, and other similar ideas. While some of these
modules may be sizable, I, like the rest of you wish to keep the base system as small
as possible
I have moved my main LEAF setup to two floppies, as setup that seems fantastic to me,
keeps the hardware write protection, still very easy to maintain, lots of space,
drives cheap, etc. I'm surprised I have not heard of more people going this route.
Well, I have Stored Procedures calling my name, back to work.
Richard Amerman
-Original Message-
From: guitarlynn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sun 9/1/2002 10:50 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc:
Subject: Re: [Leaf-devel] Webbased configuration
On Sunday 01 September 2002 15:08, Erich Titl wrote:
Mike
you seem to be knowledgeable about the copyright stuff. I am about to
paint an entry page for the config stuff and would like to use the
LEAF logo for it. Is there a problem?
Erich,
Would you mind getting with Richard Amerman and working on the the
www page format. Richard has already done quite a bit of work stream
lining the existing Weblet page code. Possibly the two of you can create
the front-end of a menu system a little easier by bouncing ideas/code
together.
I think Charles' existing code, that uses Jscript for setting up the
graphical end is an excellent idea that saves some space. Mosquito
is using a Frame setup (shudder!) built from Jscript that works
quite well (GPL'ed). There might be some ideas from examining that
code as well.
I would believe we will want to use xml (or xhtml 1.x) compliant code
in the html...possibly CSS style-sheets with the POST form method
(to avoid more code to interpret GET and the 255 character limit).
I have sent Charles a copy of James Sturdevant's POST patched
sh-httpd application that will be available via LEAF CVS when
Charles commits it to CVS. If you need a copy of it to work with
before then, mail me off-list and I'll send you a copy.
Does anyone else have any ideas, thoughts, or comments on this
since both Erich and Richard have been doing work for some time
on the interface end of the project.
--
~Lynn Avants
aka Guitarlynn
guitarlynn at users.sourceforge.net
http://leaf.sourceforge.net
If linux isn't the answer, you've probably got the wrong question!
---
This sf.net email is sponsored by: OSDN - Tired of that same old
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