Re: [LEAPSECS] drawing the battle lines

2013-03-20 Thread Rob Seaman
There's a lot of overlap between timekeepers and astronomers. I'm not sure I embrace the battle metaphor, but if so this would have to be a civil war. The fundamental issue remains that atomic time and synodic time are two different things. Thus the BIPM's implicit attempt to divorce the word

Re: [LEAPSECS] drawing the battle lines

2013-03-20 Thread Kevin . Birth
I can understand points 1 through 8, 10, and 11, but . . . What is gained by point 9 stating that UT1 should not be considered as a time scale? Kevin Kevin K. Birth, Professor Department of Anthropology Queens College, City University of New York 65-30 Kissena Boulevard Flushing, NY 11367

Re: [LEAPSECS] drawing the battle lines

2013-03-20 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message a72f135c-ce3f-48df-bc61-6ab4e68e7...@noao.edu, Rob Seaman writes: There's a lot of overlap between timekeepers and astronomers. There's a lot of overlap between bioinformatics and ornitology. Was there any relevant point you were trying to make ? The fundamental issue remains that

Re: [LEAPSECS] drawing the battle lines

2013-03-20 Thread Rob Seaman
Hi Kevin, I can understand points 1 through 8, 10, and 11, but . . . What is gained by point 9 stating that UT1 should not be considered as a time scale? Well, then, let's examine the text in question (bold, underline and italics in original - don't know if French and English are

Re: [LEAPSECS] drawing the battle lines

2013-03-20 Thread Warner Losh
On Mar 20, 2013, at 2:20 PM, Rob Seaman wrote: 2. a continuous reference time scale corresponds to UTC without leap second discontinuities; And also corresponds to UTC with leap seconds. There are no discontinuities. discontinuities here means irregularity not the a violation of the

Re: [LEAPSECS] drawing the battle lines

2013-03-20 Thread Rob Seaman
On Mar 20, 2013, at 2:29 PM, Warner Losh i...@bsdimp.com wrote: TAI isn't disseminated. Well, yes it is. From ITU-R TF.460-6: E DTAI The value of the difference TAI – UTC, as disseminated with time signals, shall be denoted DTAI. DTAI = TAI − UTC may be regarded as a correction to be added

Re: [LEAPSECS] drawing the battle lines

2013-03-20 Thread Joseph M Gwinn
I would propose that ITU is using continuity and uniformity in their mathematical definitions, implying that the intent is that at least in definitional theory, UTC be mathematically continuous with all its derivatives (noise being ignored). This would exclude step discontinuities (leap seconds)

Re: [LEAPSECS] drawing the battle lines

2013-03-20 Thread Rob Seaman
On Mar 20, 2013, at 6:02 PM, Joseph M Gwinn gw...@raytheon.com wrote: I would propose that ITU is using continuity and uniformity in their mathematical definitions, implying that the intent is that at least in definitional theory, UTC be mathematically continuous with all its derivatives

Re: [LEAPSECS] drawing the battle lines

2013-03-20 Thread Joseph Gwinn
On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 20:16:49 -0700, Rob Seaman wrote: On Mar 20, 2013, at 6:02 PM, Joseph M Gwinn gw...@raytheon.com wrote: I would propose that ITU is using continuity and uniformity in their mathematical definitions, implying that the intent is that at least in definitional theory, UTC be

Re: [LEAPSECS] drawing the battle lines

2013-03-20 Thread Harlan Stenn
So I gotta ask. What's the problem with doing radar and other similar things in GPS time and keeping human time in UTC, with leap seconds? I mean, sure, years ago timestamps were YYMMDDHHMMSS and those eventually got bigger, and eventually folks started noticing that things really got