Re: [LEAPSECS] UTC fails

2015-03-12 Thread Tom Van Baak
Steve, And UTC has failed miserably. POSIX says UTC has no leaps. Google says UTC has occasional days with stretches of seconds which are of varying lengths. De facto, there is no single UTC time scale. Right! And many more examples of UTC fails -- the RTC of any unix computer. Any windows

Re: [LEAPSECS] Letters Blogatory

2015-03-12 Thread Brooks Harris
Overall he seems to make a good philosophical argument why solar time is good for humans. But his conclusion seems confused. ... let the airlines and the Internet companies use TAI. Ah, the airlines already use GPS (TAI-like) for navigation, and local civil time for scheduling, while the

Re: [LEAPSECS] Bio cycles and dueling timescales (was Letters Blogatory)

2015-03-12 Thread Kevin Birth
You are correct to not call biological cycles clocks. Doing so is one of my pet peeves, and I've recently published an article castigating the psychophysics folks for doing so. The reference to that is: Birth, Kevin. 2014. Non-clocklike Features of Psychological Timing and Alternatives to the

Re: [LEAPSECS] Letters Blogatory

2015-03-12 Thread Kevin Birth
My post was not to suggest that circadian cycles will be affected by leap seconds or their absence as much as to point out that Mr. Folkman's argument is a better argument against mean time than an argument in favor of keeping the leap second. Getting rid of the leap second will probably have no

Re: [LEAPSECS] UTC fails

2015-03-12 Thread Stephen Colebourne
On 12 March 2015 at 05:21, Steve Allen s...@ucolick.org wrote: On Wed 2015-03-11T11:04:57 -0700, Tom Van Baak hath writ: The entire purpose of UTC is to provide a single timescale for all human-related activity. And UTC has failed miserably. POSIX says UTC has no leaps. Google says UTC has

Re: [LEAPSECS] UTC fails

2015-03-12 Thread Joseph M Gwinn
Steve, POSIX does not say that UTC has no leaps, it says that POSIX has no UTC (despite the superficial similarity). Joe Gwinn From: Steve Allen s...@ucolick.org To: Leap Second Discussion List leapsecs@leapsecond.com Date: 03/12/2015 01:22 AM Subject:[LEAPSECS] UTC fails

Re: [LEAPSECS] Letters Blogatory

2015-03-12 Thread Zefram
Brooks Harris wrote: In other words, let them simply stop adjusting for for leap seconds. Let the atomic clocks become progressively more wrong. Whoa! Hold the phone! What do you mean? Adjust TAI's frequency to match Earth?!? No, he's clearly proposing to leave TAI exactly as it is, and just to

Re: [LEAPSECS] UTC fails

2015-03-12 Thread Brooks Harris
On 2015-03-12 11:57 AM, Stephen Colebourne wrote: On 12 March 2015 at 05:21, Steve Allen s...@ucolick.org wrote: On Wed 2015-03-11T11:04:57 -0700, Tom Van Baak hath writ: The entire purpose of UTC is to provide a single timescale for all human-related activity. And UTC has failed miserably.

Re: [LEAPSECS] Civil timekeeping before 1 January 1972

2015-03-12 Thread Brooks Harris
Hi Tom, On 2015-03-12 02:57 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote: Brooks, A couple more comments on your questions. Many timekeeping systems seem to be designed for only indicating now counting forward, including NTP, POSIX, and PTP, taking short-cuts to avoid supplying full Leap Second and local-time

Re: [LEAPSECS] UTC fails

2015-03-12 Thread Warner Losh
On Mar 13, 2015, at 12:57 AM, Stephen Colebourne scolebou...@joda.org wrote: On 12 March 2015 at 05:21, Steve Allen s...@ucolick.org wrote: On Wed 2015-03-11T11:04:57 -0700, Tom Van Baak hath writ: The entire purpose of UTC is to provide a single timescale for all human-related activity.

Re: [LEAPSECS] Universal Time works

2015-03-12 Thread Warner Losh
On Mar 13, 2015, at 8:48 AM, Rob Seaman sea...@noao.edu wrote: On Mar 12, 2015, at 1:04 PM, Warner Losh i...@bsdimp.com wrote: So why is keeping us inline with solar days so desirable? The rate of change is so slow and the number of people already out of sync with solar time on the

Re: [LEAPSECS] Civil timekeeping before 1 January 1972

2015-03-12 Thread Warner Losh
On Mar 12, 2015, at 3:57 PM, Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com wrote: Brooks, A couple more comments on your questions. Many timekeeping systems seem to be designed for only indicating now counting forward, including NTP, POSIX, and PTP, taking short-cuts to avoid supplying full Leap

[LEAPSECS] Universal Time works

2015-03-12 Thread Rob Seaman
On Mar 12, 2015, at 1:04 PM, Warner Losh i...@bsdimp.com wrote: So why is keeping us inline with solar days so desirable? The rate of change is so slow and the number of people already out of sync with solar time on the second level is so large it seems like a lot of hassle for not much

Re: [LEAPSECS] Civil timekeeping before 1 January 1972

2015-03-12 Thread Tom Van Baak
Brooks wrote: Many timekeeping systems seem to be designed for only indicating now counting forward, including NTP, POSIX, and PTP, taking short-cuts to avoid supplying full Leap Second and local-time metadata. Warner wrote: A clock doesn’t need to know its past. But a time scale is more than