Re: [LEAPSECS] The definition of a day

2015-01-29 Thread Steve Allen
On Thu 2015-01-29T13:25:02 +, Peter Vince hath writ: There have been some strong views expressed that a day has to mean a solar day, i.e. midnight-to-midnight (or midday-to-midday). A basic component of the dispute is The time that people have agreed upon. Leap seconds persist now

Re: [LEAPSECS] All of this has happened before

2015-01-29 Thread Kevin Birth
Oh dear, my ears are burning. The leap second debate is all about social custom. It is about definitions (which are social customs) used by people (which is social) and decided by international bodies of experts (which involve social relationships and social processes) that will determine

Re: [LEAPSECS] All of this has happened before

2015-01-29 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message bdf1dd12-9e80-4516-91ba-76127dcb9...@noao.edu, Rob Seaman writes: On Jan 28, 2015, at 1:34 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: Derives from is not a physical reality, it's merely a social custom. So many replies to choose from [...] ... all of them unresponsive

Re: [LEAPSECS] All of this has happened before

2015-01-29 Thread Rob Seaman
On Jan 29, 2015, at 1:05 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message bdf1dd12-9e80-4516-91ba-76127dcb9...@noao.edu, Rob Seaman writes: On Jan 28, 2015, at 1:34 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: Derives from is not a physical reality, it's merely a social

Re: [LEAPSECS] stale leap second information

2015-01-29 Thread Zefram
Tom Van Baak wrote: There must be thousands of source files with stale leap second tables ... Is there any solution to this? For those who think ahead, the obvious solution is that every leap second table (hard-coded or otherwise) must include data showing the limits of its validity, and all code

Re: [LEAPSECS] The definition of a day

2015-01-29 Thread Clive D.W. Feather
Peter Vince said: Surely it would be better to allow civil time to run smoothly from atomic clocks, and give ourselves a few hundred years to quietly consider how to correct the slow drift that has reached the same order of magnitude as the analemma effect, which we regularly ignore

Re: [LEAPSECS] The definition of a day

2015-01-29 Thread Rob Seaman
Yes, both solar time and atomic time are based in physical reality. That’s the point as made innumerable times on this list. Civil time is derived from two distinct clocks. Solar time defines the day. Atomic time defines the second (fundamentally it is a frequency standard). There are

Re: [LEAPSECS] The definition of a day

2015-01-29 Thread Warner Losh
On Jan 29, 2015, at 7:25 AM, Peter Vince petervince1...@gmail.com wrote: There have been some strong views expressed that a day has to mean a solar day, i.e. midnight-to-midnight (or midday-to-midday). That is fine, but we seem to be arguing about what precision that is defined to.