Re: [OSM-legal-talk] import of dataset for new zealand
Hi, a technical solution is sought, to display the corresponding information whenever linz-sourced data is being viewed. And it is ok for them that whatever clever technical attribution scheme you devise is immediately switched off when OSM maps are viewed through something else than osm.org (e.g. informationfreeway, cyclemap, ...) whom you cannot force to use your technical solution? Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00.09' E008°23.33' ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] import of dataset for new zealand
On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 10:57 AM, Andy Robinson (blackadder) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Richard Fairhurst wrote: Sent: 18 March 2008 10:54 AM To: legal-talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] import of dataset for new zealand Robin Paulson wrote: (c) Crown Copyright w00t, Robin found his Shift key! ;) even with 5 of these displayed on screen at any one time in a small but readable font (and of course, they only need to be shown when the data is usable, i.e. not at zoom 0 - 4), a large area of screen will not be needed Better, I think, to stake our standard as being simply OpenStreetMap and others hyperlinked to the attribution page. It's scalable when more datasets come along; fits in better with the image of the project; and imposes no technical burden on those who reuse the data (i.e. they can simply link to www.openstreetmap.org/attribution rather than having to dynamically generate a list of imported datasets for the bbox). +1 Like this perhaps? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Attribution cheers Richard ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] import of dataset for new zealand
At 12:48 PM 3/18/2008, 80n wrote: On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 10:57 AM, Andy Robinson (blackadder) mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Richard Fairhurst wrote: Sent: 18 March 2008 10:54 AM To: mailto:legal-talk@openstreetmap.orglegal-talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] import of dataset for new zealand Robin Paulson wrote: (c) Crown Copyright w00t, Robin found his Shift key! ;) even with 5 of these displayed on screen at any one time in a small but readable font (and of course, they only need to be shown when the data is usable, i.e. not at zoom 0 - 4), a large area of screen will not be needed Better, I think, to stake our standard as being simply OpenStreetMap and others hyperlinked to the attribution page. It's scalable when more datasets come along; fits in better with the image of the project; and imposes no technical burden on those who reuse the data (i.e. they can simply link to http://www.openstreetmap.org/attributionwww.openstreetmap.org/attribution rather than having to dynamically generate a list of imported datasets for the bbox). +1 Like this perhaps? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Attributionhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Attribution Can we symbolically link that to http://www.openstreetmap.org/attributionwww.openstreetmap.org/attribution and then put a link to it on the front page to show we have a practical attribution solution and are giving it maximum easy-to-reach prominence? It then just comes down to being careful to give the licensor chance to define what include an attribution statement without forcing them to. I'd suggest Robin emails or writes, writing preferable, a short letter like the following. I had a hot shot lawyer business partner and this is a tactic we often used in general business. Generally, there is no reply and therefore any subsequent objection carries little or no weight. I'd also be happy to send this personally as an OSMF board member if Robin provides contact details and prior contact summary. Thank you for making your xyz data available. We are incorporating it into a worldwide free open mapping project http://www.openstreetmap.org, the purposes of which is described in more detail at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org. In order to give maximum permanent attribution as per your license terms, we have placed an attribution here at http://www.openstreetmap.org/attribution. If you have any objections or questions about such usage, please feel free to write to us by x, 2008, after which we will assume we are meeting your terms satisfactorily. This approach has worked successfully in the Philippines for OSM, even sending the letter registered post. Mike ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] import of dataset for new zealand
On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 1:37 PM, Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Thank you for making your xyz data available. We are incorporating it into a worldwide free open mapping project http:// www.openstreetmap.org, the purposes of which is described in more detail at http://wiki ().openstreetmap.org. In order to give maximum permanent () attribution as per your license terms, [...] Emphasis added by me ;-) I think the benefits of making it easy for contributors to add their desired attribution text outweighs the burden of a static page. The wiki page is only non-permanent if it is edited maliciously and we have the history to deal with that case. I like the idea of a redirect from a non-wiki page as this prevents a proliferation of unofficial attribution variants appearing in the wiki. I can't imagine a reason why someone would want to do such a thing, but I can imagine that someone would find a good/bad reason to try. Wanting to say: Maybe this would be the one place where we should set up and old-fashioned static website OR write-protect the page. Then again, if the next paragraph in the letter were If you are unhappy with the attribution as given on that page, please hit the 'Edit' button and change it to suit your needs would be tres cool indeed ;-) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00.09' E008°23.33' ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] import of dataset for new zealand
On 18/03/2008, Richard Fairhurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robin Paulson wrote: (c) Crown Copyright w00t, Robin found his Shift key! ;) thanks, incredibly constructive. haven't you got something better to do? ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] import of dataset for new zealand
Robin Paulson wrote: On 18/03/2008, Richard Fairhurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robin Paulson wrote: (c) Crown Copyright w00t, Robin found his Shift key! ;) thanks, incredibly constructive. haven't you got something better to do? What, something better than having a sense of humour? No, probably not. Alternatively, you could respond to the seven lines of constructive, substantive suggestion I made below that. But - oh look - you appear to have snipped that. Meanwhile, I'll get back to a second consecutive evening of unconstructive coding on Potlatch. Richard ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] License update
Hi, This could take a little while, so we're thinking of changing the language of _new_ user signups to instead of releasing their work as CC, but as CC _or_ the ODL if the rest of the community vote on it. 1. It is, in my eyes, far from clear what exactly the community will vote on (will it be the ODL? what will the ODL look like by the time?) 2. It is also far from clear who will vote and how this voting will look like. Who will be eligible? Etc. What happens if the project splits as a consequence of the license change, and the community in one sub-project gives it the license A and the community in the other sub-project gives it the license B? Unless all this is clear to the person signing up, they'll have a very hard time finding out what exactly they agree to by signing up - and we have a very hard time telling them that without creating the impression that we don't give a damn for the community process because we know what the outcome will be anyway! Because there are so many users signing up that every day it gets harder to go back and pull out data if a change is made. Very well. I suggest to ask everybody to sign up for PD because this makes sure that their work is not lost to the project. Sounds easiest to me. Those who don't do that will be included in the general license change E-Mail process later. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] import of dataset for new zealand
On 19/03/2008, Richard Fairhurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What, something better than having a sense of humour? No, probably not. Alternatively, you could respond to the seven lines of constructive, substantive suggestion I made below that. But - oh look - you appear to have snipped that. i ignore people's suggestions when their first response is something in that tone. maybe if you want your point to be taken seriously you should make it in a serious way? ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] import of dataset for new zealand
Robin Paulson wrote: i ignore people's suggestions when their first response is something in that tone. maybe if you want your point to be taken seriously you should make it in a serious way? 'k. Personally I find it more helpful to assess people's suggestions according to the value of the suggestion, but I may be out of line here. Richard ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] License update
On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 05:38:37PM +, SteveC wrote: Richard, Andy and I just had a conference call to review where we are with the license. Progress is going well. We've engaged Jordan and sent off the changes we suggested to him, he is integrating them and will be releasing a new version. Once released he will consult with other interested parties on it and you will get the opportunity to do the same. This could take a little while, so we're thinking of changing the language of _new_ user signups to instead of releasing their work as CC, but as CC _or_ the ODL if the rest of the community vote on it. A link will be given showing that there is an ongoing license change discussion. Why are we thinking this? Because there are so many users signing up that every day it gets harder to go back and pull out data if a change is made. Comments on language to use etc warmly received. I haven't been following recent OSM licence debates at all, but why not also offer the choice of licensing contributions under the PDDL[1] also? This does not prevent people from including such contributions in an ODL-licensed dataset. This would effectively supercede the http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Category:Users_whose_contributions_are_in_the_public_domain page. Dominic. -- Dominic Hargreaves | http://www.larted.org.uk/~dom/ PGP key 5178E2A5 from the.earth.li (keyserver,web,email) ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] License update
Dominic Hargreaves wrote: I haven't been following recent OSM licence debates at all, but why not also offer the choice of licensing contributions under the PDDL[1] also? This does not prevent people from including such contributions in an ODL-licensed dataset. This would effectively supercede the http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/ index.php/Category:Users_whose_contributions_are_in_the_public_domain page. Yep, we've been considering exactly that and will hopefully be able to offer it as a further option. cheers Richard ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] License update
Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, This could take a little while, so we're thinking of changing the language of _new_ user signups to instead of releasing their work as CC, but as CC _or_ the ODL if the rest of the community vote on it. 1. It is, in my eyes, far from clear what exactly the community will vote on (will it be the ODL? what will the ODL look like by the time?) 2. It is also far from clear who will vote and how this voting will look like. Who will be eligible? Etc. What happens if the project splits as a consequence of the license change, and the community in one sub-project gives it the license A and the community in the other sub-project gives it the license B? Unless all this is clear to the person signing up, they'll have a very hard time finding out what exactly they agree to by signing up - and we have a very hard time telling them that without creating the impression that we don't give a damn for the community process because we know what the outcome will be anyway! I'm also wondering. How can one legally agree to release a contribution under a license which is unfinished? Or am I misunderstanding the situation and the ODL is in fact done? Charles ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] License update
Charles Basenga Kiyanda wrote: I'm also wondering. How can one legally agree to release a contribution under a license which is unfinished? Or am I misunderstanding the situation and the ODL is in fact done? Technically speaking the user would be licensing their contributions under the ODC Factual Info Licence (http://www.opencontentlawyer.com/open-data/open-data-commons-factual-info-licence/), to which no changes are proposed. The FIL is in essence a PD-style licence; but (if the community approves a change to ODBL) OSM would only republish these contributions under the terms of ODBL, thereby providing the share-alike/attribution-style protections. As I alluded in my reply to Dom's e-mail earlier, users could also _additionally_ permit OSM to republish their contributions as public domain. This would essentially be formalising the wiki PD-user initiative. cheers Richard ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
