Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-09-14 Thread Asa Rossoff
I composed the following SOME TIME back! (must have been around the time of the Freedom Hosting initial revalations) -- it was never sent, so here it is. I don't have the dates, but this reply should get threaded properly... My reply is dated in the sense that it was based on info at the

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-07 Thread Jerzy Łogiewa
But this data is not useful for any but most advanced user. TBB should autoupdate for any nongeek user. I hope some safe way of this update exists. -- Jerzy Łogiewa -- jerz...@interia.eu On Aug 6, 2013, at 5:11 PM, CodesInChaos wrote: When the user's version is outdated you already display

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-07 Thread Nadim Kobeissi
On 2013-08-07, at 12:44 PM, Jacob Appelbaum ja...@appelbaum.net wrote: Bbrewer: We're understaffed, so we tend to pick the few things we might accomplish and writing such advisory emails is weird unless there is an exceptional event. Firefox bugs and corresponding updates are not

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-07 Thread Nadim Kobeissi
On 2013-08-07, at 12:58 PM, Jacob Appelbaum ja...@appelbaum.net wrote: Nadim Kobeissi: On 2013-08-07, at 12:44 PM, Jacob Appelbaum ja...@appelbaum.net wrote: Bbrewer: We're understaffed, so we tend to pick the few things we might accomplish and writing such advisory emails is weird

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-07 Thread Jacob Appelbaum
Nadim Kobeissi: On 2013-08-07, at 12:58 PM, Jacob Appelbaum ja...@appelbaum.net wrote: Nadim Kobeissi: On 2013-08-07, at 12:44 PM, Jacob Appelbaum ja...@appelbaum.net wrote: Bbrewer: We're understaffed, so we tend to pick the few things we might accomplish and writing such advisory

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-07 Thread Nadim Kobeissi
On 2013-08-07, at 1:05 PM, Jacob Appelbaum ja...@appelbaum.net wrote: Nadim Kobeissi: On 2013-08-07, at 12:58 PM, Jacob Appelbaum ja...@appelbaum.net wrote: Nadim Kobeissi: On 2013-08-07, at 12:44 PM, Jacob Appelbaum ja...@appelbaum.net wrote: Bbrewer: We're understaffed, so we

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-07 Thread Jacob Appelbaum
The advisory was about bug being exploited in the wild, so, yes. That was covered well in Roger's last email. I'm aware, I did read his email. I was just under the impression that you publish advisories about *vulnerabilities*, not about *exploits*. But perhaps you're teaching me (and the

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-07 Thread Claudio
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 08/07/2013 12:35 PM, Jacob Appelbaum wrote: The advisory was about bug being exploited in the wild, so, yes. That was covered well in Roger's last email. I'm aware, I did read his email. I was just under the impression that you publish

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-07 Thread Joseph Lorenzo Hall
On 8/7/13 9:22 AM, Claudio wrote: How about we stop this nonsense repetitive blame game and get back at proposing good practices for the future? Nadim, since you clearly admitted on the other thread from Shava that you're just campaigning a personal attack against Jacob, I'm not even

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-07 Thread Kyle Maxwell
Although I agree in principle (in the sense of friendly advice to Nadim), let's all just remember this same advice the next time Applebaum goes on one of *his* tirades, shall we? Now returning to your regularly scheduled rants against The Man. On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 8:29 AM, Joseph Lorenzo Hall

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-07 Thread Crypto
On 8/7/2013 8:29 AM, Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote: On 8/7/13 9:22 AM, Claudio wrote: How about we stop this nonsense repetitive blame game and get back at proposing good practices for the future? Nadim, since you clearly admitted on the other thread from Shava that you're just campaigning a

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-07 Thread Joseph Lorenzo Hall
little girls?! WTF On Wed Aug 7 09:37:55 2013, Crypto wrote: On 8/7/2013 8:29 AM, Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote: I add my vote also. If you two want to fight like little girls that it off list. Continuing to SPAM the list with your constant bickering only increases your lack of credibility.

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-07 Thread Kyle Maxwell
Yay casual sexism... okay, everybody's had their say. I agree with Nadim's point, but he's made it already, and I agree with those who say it's time for us all to get back to work. It's a beautiful day here in Texas and I hope for the same for you all, wherever you are. I'll be getting back to

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-07 Thread Crypto
On 8/7/2013 8:49 AM, Kyle Maxwell wrote: Yay casual sexism... okay, everybody's had their say. I agree with Nadim's point, but he's made it already, and I agree with those who say it's time for us all to get back to work. It's a beautiful day here in Texas and I hope for the same for you

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-07 Thread Al Billings
No and no. It was an issue found by a external security researcher who has submitted a lot of issues to us over time. He found it through his process of investigation and reported it directly to us (responsible disclosure and such). It was a problem and we fixed it. The first indications of

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-07 Thread Yosem Companys
OK, everyone, let's try to cool it a bit. This discussion is extremely important, so let's not let it deteriorate into bickering. Otherwise, I'll have to moderate it, a task I don't enjoy. Kudos to all of you who have already expressed a similar sentiment, Yosem, one of the moderators On

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread Nadim Kobeissi
On 2013-08-06, at 3:19 AM, Jacob Appelbaum ja...@appelbaum.net wrote: Griffin Boyce: Al, We may have to disagree as to the way forward. I hate to be contentious, but it seems unlikely that Tor applied a patch without reading firefox's changelog. Two days ago I presented a talk which

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread Jacob Appelbaum
Nadim Kobeissi: On 2013-08-06, at 3:19 AM, Jacob Appelbaum ja...@appelbaum.net wrote: Griffin Boyce: Al, We may have to disagree as to the way forward. I hate to be contentious, but it seems unlikely that Tor applied a patch without reading firefox's changelog. Two days ago I

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread Nadim Kobeissi
On 2013-08-06, at 11:46 AM, Al Billings alb...@openbuddha.com wrote: Nadim you seem confused by how this works. Tor doesn't need to issue advisories for Firefox issues. We, at Mozilla, already issue them. Perhaps they can link to them clearly but if you want to know about security issues

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread Maxim Kammerer
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 12:30 PM, Jacob Appelbaum ja...@appelbaum.netwrote: Please feel free to answer the question, we're happy to learn from an example. Are either of you involved in such an example? Might we learn from your example? If so, where might we see it? Tails references upstream

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread Jacob Appelbaum
Nadim Kobeissi: On 2013-08-06, at 11:46 AM, Al Billings alb...@openbuddha.com wrote: Nadim you seem confused by how this works. Tor doesn't need to issue advisories for Firefox issues. We, at Mozilla, already issue them. Perhaps they can link to them clearly but if you want to know about

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread Nadim Kobeissi
On 2013-08-06, at 12:55 PM, Jacob Appelbaum ja...@appelbaum.net wrote: Nadim Kobeissi: On 2013-08-06, at 11:46 AM, Al Billings alb...@openbuddha.com wrote: Nadim you seem confused by how this works. Tor doesn't need to issue advisories for Firefox issues. We, at Mozilla, already issue

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread Jacob Appelbaum
Maxim Kammerer: On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 12:30 PM, Jacob Appelbaum ja...@appelbaum.netwrote: Please feel free to answer the question, we're happy to learn from an example. Are either of you involved in such an example? Might we learn from your example? If so, where might we see it? Tails

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread Jacob Appelbaum
Nadim Kobeissi: On 2013-08-06, at 12:55 PM, Jacob Appelbaum ja...@appelbaum.net wrote: Nadim Kobeissi: On 2013-08-06, at 11:46 AM, Al Billings alb...@openbuddha.com wrote: Nadim you seem confused by how this works. Tor doesn't need to issue advisories for Firefox issues. We, at

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread Maxim Kammerer
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Jacob Appelbaum ja...@appelbaum.net wrote: Somewhere there is a line and clearly, we failed to meet the high standards of a few folks on this list. I'm mostly curious if that high standard will be expressed in a cohesive manner where we might learn from it.

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread Asa Rossoff
Jacob Appelbaum: Nadim Kobeissi: On 2013-08-06, at 11:46 AM, Al Billings alb...@openbuddha.com wrote: Nadim you seem confused by how this works. Tor doesn't need to issue advisories for Firefox issues. We, at Mozilla, already issue them. Perhaps they can link to them clearly but if you

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread Jacob Appelbaum
Maxim Kammerer: On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Jacob Appelbaum ja...@appelbaum.net wrote: Somewhere there is a line and clearly, we failed to meet the high standards of a few folks on this list. I'm mostly curious if that high standard will be expressed in a cohesive manner where we might

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread Jacob Appelbaum
Asa Rossoff: Jacob Appelbaum: Nadim Kobeissi: On 2013-08-06, at 11:46 AM, Al Billings alb...@openbuddha.com wrote: Nadim you seem confused by how this works. Tor doesn't need to issue advisories for Firefox issues. We, at Mozilla, already issue them. Perhaps they can link to them clearly

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread Nadim Kobeissi
On 2013-08-06, at 1:23 PM, Jacob Appelbaum ja...@appelbaum.net wrote: Nadim Kobeissi: On 2013-08-06, at 12:55 PM, Jacob Appelbaum ja...@appelbaum.net wrote: Nadim Kobeissi: On 2013-08-06, at 11:46 AM, Al Billings alb...@openbuddha.com wrote: Nadim you seem confused by how this

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread intrigeri
Hi, Maxim Kammerer wrote (06 Aug 2013 09:52:36 GMT) : Tails references upstream advisories, or at least did so in the past. https://tails.boum.org/security/Numerous_security_holes_in_0.18/ Right, and we have no plan to stop doing this. What we've been doing for years when releasing a new Tails

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread konfkukor
Jacob Appelbaum: I like this idea - though I wonder how users would feel about it? Will they read it? Should it be our own RSS feed or an RSS feed of Mozilla's data? I don't like the idea. You need to worry about the upgrading behavior of casual users of TBB, who aren't going to bother to

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread Jacob Appelbaum
Joseph Lorenzo Hall: On 8/6/13 6:41 AM, Jacob Appelbaum wrote: (2) Even have an RSS feed of them available through the TBB, as well as RSS of TBB releases, and what security issues are covred including one advised by Firefox. This could notify of stable, alpha and beta releases, so

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread Jacob Appelbaum
Nadim Kobeissi: On 2013-08-06, at 1:23 PM, Jacob Appelbaum ja...@appelbaum.net wrote: Nadim Kobeissi: On 2013-08-06, at 12:55 PM, Jacob Appelbaum ja...@appelbaum.net wrote: Nadim Kobeissi: On 2013-08-06, at 11:46 AM, Al Billings alb...@openbuddha.com wrote: Nadim you seem

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread Jacob Appelbaum
intrigeri: Hi, Maxim Kammerer wrote (06 Aug 2013 09:52:36 GMT) : Tails references upstream advisories, or at least did so in the past. https://tails.boum.org/security/Numerous_security_holes_in_0.18/ Right, and we have no plan to stop doing this. What we've been doing for years when

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread Jacob Appelbaum
konfku...@riseup.net: Jacob Appelbaum: I like this idea - though I wonder how users would feel about it? Will they read it? Should it be our own RSS feed or an RSS feed of Mozilla's data? I don't like the idea. You need to worry about the upgrading behavior of casual users of TBB, who

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread Pavol Luptak
But, this is the Firefox / Tor Browser Bundle exploit. The question is how FBI gained access to Freedom Hosting? What kind of exploits did they use? Pavol On Mon, Aug 05, 2013 at 09:08:49PM -0500, Kyle Maxwell wrote: According to THN[0] and several linked supporting sites from there

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread Al Billings
In fact, I wrote the advisory in question and generally write all of them (with input from Mozilla developers and other security team members). Al -- Al Billings http://makehacklearn.org On Tuesday, August 6, 2013 at 2:30 AM, Jacob Appelbaum wrote: Mozilla issued an updated blog post in

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread Al Billings
Except this issue was a Firefox issue, fixed in ESR 17.0.7 and which we had posted an advisory for six weeks ago today. So, yes, you're asking Tor to copy and paste Firefox advisories. The issue wasn't a Tor-specific issue except that the way it was being spread targeted the TBB. It was a

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread Al Billings
On Tuesday, August 6, 2013 at 9:58 AM, Brian Conley wrote: Al, I'm not a developer, so please bear with me. Do you disagree that TBB is forked software? That depends on your definition. They aren't taking a fork of Firefox and running off with it for a year or two. They are (and I don't

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread The Doctor
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 08/06/2013 10:18 AM, Pavol Luptak wrote: The question is how FBI gained access to Freedom Hosting? What kind of exploits did they use? Freedom Hosting offered web hosting services to people that asked for it, yes? A hypothesis I've seen

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread CodesInChaos
When the user's version is outdated you already display an update notice. You could add those items from https://www.mozilla.org/security/known-vulnerabilities/firefoxESR.html that apply to the current version. Listing particular vulnerabilities makes it clear that you actually should update and

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread R. Jason Cronk
Plausible and clever in it's simplicity. Moral of the story: host your own server. Anybody know what ever happened to Publius[1]? Did that concept ever go anywhere? 1 http://www.cs.nyu.edu/waldman/publius/ On 8/6/2013 1:38 PM, The Doctor wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread coderman
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 12:28 PM, R. Jason Cronk r...@privacymaverick.com wrote: ... Anybody know what ever happened to Publius[1]? Did that concept ever go anywhere? 1 http://www.cs.nyu.edu/waldman/publius/ wow, that takes me back. i remember running publius when it launched back in the

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread Florian Weimer
* Jacob Appelbaum: This is not accurate. We heard about attempts at exploitation and within ~24hrs we released an advisory - we had already released fixed code a ~month before exploitation was found in the wild. Please do not mix up the time-line. To restate: 2.3.25-10 (released June 26

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Florian Weimer f...@deneb.enyo.de wrote: (Automated updates are a mixed blessing because they could invite court orders to roll out specific versions to certain users.) No crap. _please_ don't deploy automatic updates in a sensitive environment like this without

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread Bbrewer
We're understaffed, so we tend to pick the few things we might accomplish and writing such advisory emails is weird unless there is an exceptional event. Firefox bugs and corresponding updates are not exceptional events. :( Pardon me, But it does seem that this one was. No? Sent with AquaMail

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread Andy Isaacson
On Tue, Aug 06, 2013 at 01:50:31PM +0300, Nadim Kobeissi wrote: Yes, to be absolutely clear, I think Tor should issue advisories for confirmed security issues in Tor Browser, since Tor Browser is a fork of Firefox and is independently maintained. This is exactly what Tor did this time, except

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread Kyle Maxwell
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 10:19 PM, Andy Isaacson a...@hexapodia.org wrote: We have to move past the bug the user again model of security system deployment. In the general sense, yes. Silent automatic updates are a truly good thing in many use cases and environments. However, in the case where

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread Nadim Kobeissi
On 2013-08-06, at 4:49 PM, Jacob Appelbaum ja...@appelbaum.net wrote: Nadim Kobeissi: On 2013-08-06, at 1:23 PM, Jacob Appelbaum ja...@appelbaum.net wrote: Nadim Kobeissi: On 2013-08-06, at 12:55 PM, Jacob Appelbaum ja...@appelbaum.net wrote: Nadim Kobeissi: On 2013-08-06, at

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-06 Thread Roger Dingledine
On Wed, Aug 07, 2013 at 07:20:21AM +0300, Nadim Kobeissi wrote: You will note that this was posted recently. However, 5 weeks ago, Mozilla posted a security advisory for Firefox and fixed the issue. Tor then updated the Tor Browser Bundle with the fix, 5 weeks ago, *without releasing a security

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Nadim Kobeissi
Forgive me, but I'd like to ask a question here. Tor is a tool that is undeniably, directly marketed toward activists in high-risk environments. Tor's presentations at conferences centre around how Tor obtains increased usage in Arab Spring countries that matches the timeline of revolutionary

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Albert López
). gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --search-keys EEE5A447http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=0xEEE5A447op=vindex From: na...@nadim.cc Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 10:15:20 +0200 To: liberationtech@lists.stanford.edu Subject: Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Georg Koppen
On 05.08.2013 10:15, Nadim Kobeissi wrote: Now, we find out that the FBI has been sitting on an exploit since an unknown amount of time that can compromise the Tor Browser Bundle is that really so? See: https://blog.mozilla.org/security/2013/08/04/investigating-security-vulnerability-report/

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Nadim Kobeissi
On 2013-08-05, at 10:46 AM, Georg Koppen g.kop...@jondos.de wrote: On 05.08.2013 10:15, Nadim Kobeissi wrote: Now, we find out that the FBI has been sitting on an exploit since an unknown amount of time that can compromise the Tor Browser Bundle is that really so? See:

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Roger Dingledine
On Mon, Aug 05, 2013 at 10:46:35AM +0200, Georg Koppen wrote: On 05.08.2013 10:15, Nadim Kobeissi wrote: Now, we find out that the FBI has been sitting on an exploit since an unknown amount of time that can compromise the Tor Browser Bundle is that really so? See:

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Albert López
EEE5A447http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=0xEEE5A447op=vindex From: na...@nadim.cc Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 10:46:58 +0200 To: liberationtech@lists.stanford.edu Subject: Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud On 2013-08-05, at 10:46 AM, Georg Koppen

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Michael Owen
On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 9:46 AM, Nadim Kobeissi na...@nadim.cc wrote: Hmm. So it's more of a 38-day. Perhaps there should have been a Tor Browser security advisory in that case. I'm not sure how long the Tor bundle goes without actively complaining to the user about things being out of date.

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Nadim Kobeissi
On 2013-08-05, at 11:04 AM, Michael Owen mich...@theramparts.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 9:46 AM, Nadim Kobeissi na...@nadim.cc wrote: Hmm. So it's more of a 38-day. Perhaps there should have been a Tor Browser security advisory in that case. I'm not sure how long the Tor bundle

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Jason Gulledge
The fog of OHM hasn't yet lifted for me, so I'm sorry if I'm not entirely poetic in thought… Before people jump in and say the tor network is inherently flawed! I just want to try to put it in perspective. As I understand it, an .onion got owned, probably by some poorly written or installed

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread liberationtech
On Mon, 5 Aug 2013 10:15:20 +0200 Nadim Kobeissi na...@nadim.cc wrote: Now, we find out that the FBI has been sitting on an exploit since an unknown amount of time that can compromise the Tor Browser Bundle, which is currently the main way to download Tor and the only way to download Tor for

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread liberationtech
On Mon, 5 Aug 2013 10:04:02 +0100 Michael Owen mich...@theramparts.com wrote: I'm not sure how long the Tor bundle goes without actively complaining to the user about things being out of date. TBB notifies the user within an hour of releasing the new version. The hour lag is because our

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Andy Isaacson
On Mon, Aug 05, 2013 at 09:19:01AM -0400, liberationt...@lewman.us wrote: Please cite first person sources on this. It's not clear the FBI did anything or is involved at all. There is a reddit thread implying this, but no statement (as of yet) from the FBI or anyone claiming responsibility for

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Georg Koppen
On 05.08.2013 10:15, Nadim Kobeissi wrote: Now, we find out that the FBI has been sitting on an exploit since an unknown amount of time that can compromise the Tor Browser Bundle is that really so? See: https://blog.mozilla.org/security/2013/08/04/investigating-security-vulnerability-report/

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Nadim Kobeissi
On 2013-08-05, at 4:19 PM, liberationt...@lewman.us wrote: On Mon, 5 Aug 2013 10:15:20 +0200 Nadim Kobeissi na...@nadim.cc wrote: Now, we find out that the FBI has been sitting on an exploit since an unknown amount of time that can compromise the Tor Browser Bundle, which is currently the

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Roger Dingledine
On Mon, Aug 05, 2013 at 04:54:00AM -0400, Roger Dingledine wrote: Specifically, it would appear that the TBB updates we put out on June 26 addressed this vulnerability: https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-announce/2013-August/89.html has some more details now. Or see

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Claudio
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 08/05/2013 05:00 PM, Nadim Kobeissi wrote: On 2013-08-05, at 4:19 PM, liberationt...@lewman.us wrote: On Mon, 5 Aug 2013 10:15:20 +0200 Nadim Kobeissi na...@nadim.cc wrote: Now, we find out that the FBI has been sitting on an exploit

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Fabio Pietrosanti (naif)
Il 8/4/13 10:31 PM, liberationt...@lewman.us ha scritto: Tor's official response is here, https://blog.torproject.org/blog/hidden-services-current-events-and-freedom-hosting After a quick check at a random Tor2web server, it seems that there's no specific pattern of traffic-drop. Who knows,

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Nadim Kobeissi
On 2013-08-05, at 6:38 PM, Roger Dingledine a...@mit.edu wrote: On Mon, Aug 05, 2013 at 04:54:00AM -0400, Roger Dingledine wrote: Specifically, it would appear that the TBB updates we put out on June 26 addressed this vulnerability:

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Griffin Boyce
Fabio Pietrosanti (naif) li...@infosecurity.ch wrote: After a quick check at a random Tor2web server, it seems that there's no specific pattern of traffic-drop. Who knows, maybe the amount of TorHS that has been takendown are just a few. Yeah, it seems like people are vastly

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread h0ost
Mozilla posted the advisory on June 25th. https://www.mozilla.org/security/announce/2013/mfsa2013-53.html and a TBB update was provided 5 days later: https://blog.torproject.org/blog/tor-browser-bundle-30alpha2-released - and uses a version of FF that the advisory says fixes the issue. So

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Bernard Tyers - ei8fdb
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Firstly: this is not a anti-Tor/pro-anything/anti-developer comment. If anything it's pro-have_some_understanding_for_people point-of-view. I contribute to Tor as I believe it can do a lot of good. As I understand it, the issue was: a compromise

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Doug Chamberlin
Nadim certainly has a point about the disparity between how his efforts were received and the overall level of respect/support Tor receives. Hopefully, he will continue on and when his software accumulates the track record that Tor has he will be suitably rewarded. He certainly writes recently

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Griffin Boyce
Bernard Tyers - ei8fdb ei8...@ei8fdb.org wrote: By what Roger Dingledine from Tor has stated in a previous mail, The Tor Project provided the you need to upgrade message promptly. I don't know if that is enough. (But it is certainly a lot more that other providers of software would do.) I

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Al Billings
You realize Tor didn't know this vuln was an issue until two days ago? The Tor Browser Bundle is based off of Firefox ESR releases. All the high profile security issues fixed are listed on the Firefox ESR known vulnerabilities web page. You want them to copy that page for you? Al -- Al

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Bernard Tyers - ei8fdb
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 5 Aug 2013, at 21:08, Al Billings wrote: You realize Tor didn't know this vuln was an issue until two days ago? I presume thats directed at Griffin. The Tor Browser Bundle is based off of Firefox ESR releases. All the high profile security

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Al Billings
Why should they? Just make sure you're running the most recently released version. -- Al Billings http://makehacklearn.org On Monday, August 5, 2013 at 1:18 PM, Bernard Tyers - ei8fdb wrote: The Tor Browser Bundle is based off of Firefox ESR releases. All the high profile security

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Griffin Boyce
Al, We may have to disagree as to the way forward. I hate to be contentious, but it seems unlikely that Tor applied a patch without reading firefox's changelog. Two days ago I presented a talk which emphasized how useful Tor is -- and I stand by that. Tor is still the best option for maintaining

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Al Billings
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here exactly. Tor doesn't apply a patch to TBB, AFAIK. They build on top of Firefox ESR. The current Firefox ESR17 (and the current TBB) have the bug fixed that everyone is talking about. If you're current, you're safe. So, then the problem becomes: why

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread R. Jason Cronk
Does anybody have any indication on how the alleged operator of Freedom Hosting was identified. Everybody seems to be focusing on the javascript exploit but from what I've read, it appears that was placed on the server after the alleged operator was taken down and the operation compromised, or

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Shava Nerad
If my understanding of Mozilla's description of the vulnerability is correct: https://blog.mozilla.org/security/2013/08/04/investigating-security-vulnerability-report/ Users who are on the latest version of Firefox (version 22) or Firefox ESR (version 17.0.7) are not at risk. If a user is

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Al Billings
No, Mozilla (I assume you mean Firefox) wasn't used to insert anything into any servers. It is the other way around. Someone had an exploit on the servers that could be used to exploit older versions of the ESR17 branch of Firefox, which the Tor Browser Bundle uses. (ESR is the Extended Support

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Shava Nerad
ah, ok, thanks! Got it backwards... So the server was hacked by some unknown method, by a state level opponent, and this was then used to identify user activity using the Firefox 17 vulnerability announced by Mozilla, presumably, which allowed them to monitor significant traffic and

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Andy Isaacson
On Tue, Aug 06, 2013 at 12:09:48AM +0200, Griffin Boyce wrote: We may have to disagree as to the way forward. I hate to be contentious, but it seems unlikely that Tor applied a patch without reading firefox's changelog. I'm still not clear on what you want Tor to have done. Should they do a

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Jacob Appelbaum
Griffin Boyce: Al, We may have to disagree as to the way forward. I hate to be contentious, but it seems unlikely that Tor applied a patch without reading firefox's changelog. Two days ago I presented a talk which emphasized how useful Tor is -- and I stand by that. Tor is still the best

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread liberationtech
On Mon, Aug 05, 2013 at 06:18:02PM -0400, r...@privacymaverick.com wrote 0.6K bytes in 0 lines about: : Does anybody have any indication on how the alleged operator of : Freedom Hosting was identified. Everybody seems to be focusing on : the javascript exploit but from what I've read, it appears

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-05 Thread Kyle Maxwell
According to THN[0] and several linked supporting sites from there (particularly notable are analyses from Kenneth Buckler[1] and Vlad Tsyrklevich[2]), the payload delivered the MAC address and Windows hostname to 65.222.202.54[3]. I've read in public sources that that address is assigned to SAIC

[liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-04 Thread Rich Jones
1) Freedom Hosting owner arrested and TorMail appears to be distributing FBI malware specifically targeting the Tor Browser Bundle. Deets: https://openwatch.net/i/200/anonymous-web-host-freedom-hosting-owner-arreste 2) I'm considering using Docker/Flynn to build an anonymous PaaS. Anybody want

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-04 Thread liberationtech
Tor's official response is here, https://blog.torproject.org/blog/hidden-services-current-events-and-freedom-hosting -- Andrew http://tpo.is/contact pgp 0x6B4D6475 -- Liberationtech list is public and archives are searchable on Google. Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change

Re: [liberationtech] Freedom Hosting, Tormail Compromised // OnionCloud

2013-08-04 Thread Griffin Boyce
There are really two separate issues here, and I just want to separate them briefly. 1) Tormail and other sites were hosting malicious js code that attempts to break firefox 17. 2) Freedom Hosting was shut off after its host was arrested. I will say from personal experience that most hidden