Re: Adding the browser to Libreoffice
Unfortunately my first response is NO. ACK. Different users prefer differnt browsers, so why adding yet another one that many people wouldn't like anyways ? Maybe there are some options for improving browser integration, but that's a whole different topic, IMHO. Instead, in an other way, I'd rather to put such an effort in improving Libreoffice by put it into a browser, What would be the practical benefit of that ? Or are you talking about making lo an web application ? cu -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind regards Enrico Weigelt VNC - Virtual Network Consult GmbH Head Of Development Pariser Platz 4a, D-10117 Berlin Tel.: +49 (30) 3464615-20 Fax: +49 (30) 3464615-59 enrico.weig...@vnc.biz; www.vnc.de ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Adding the browser to Libreoffice
i wonder why people say that an office suite needs to have an email client: is that only because Microsoft Office includes one? Actually, I wonder the same thing. Similar on the mozilla front: why should a browser include an calendar ? I, personally, one tool for one job - simple and small - and then integrating them together via generic interfaces (so the individual tools can be easily replaced). surely nobody actually wants to embed a mail client into a Writer document as an OLE object? Hah, that would be a funny thing ;-) By the way: do we already have an integrated tetris and solitare ? ;-) cu -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind regards Enrico Weigelt VNC - Virtual Network Consult GmbH Head Of Development Pariser Platz 4a, D-10117 Berlin Tel.: +49 (30) 3464615-20 Fax: +49 (30) 3464615-59 enrico.weig...@vnc.biz; www.vnc.de ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [tdf-discuss] Adding the browser to Libreoffice
Hi, +1 to Tim below. IMHO if we're on the topic of adding another program to LibreOffice - Project Management (PM) should be considered over adding yet another open source Browser. I'm reasonably certain there are not enough resources at the moment to do this - at least not without partnering/forking one of the existing open source PM projects. Which featureset would you like to see in such an extension ? Wouldn't it be easier to just pick some existing solution (eg. we're using Redmine) instead ? From what I see in the industry (mid- and large-size enterprises), the big trend is going to web-based applications. Several of our customers even dropped their local MUA's (in that case: Outlook) completely after we've replaced their Exchange by Zimbra. So, it seems that business customers tend to prefer web applications (possibly with customer-specific integrations to 3rdparty systems) over local applications. In general, I'd point out two argumentation lines against adding fundamentally new functionalily of such kind: a) featureset and choice Different users have different requirements (the ugliest of all is ERP world, where everybody seems to have its own or at least heavily cutomized system). Therefore we should give people the choice and instead add some optional integrations via generic interfaces. (eg. people that like to use lo as a dashboard, they could use some extension that display interesting informations like ticket lists, timelines, etc from an prjm-system, or a list of new mails in some kind of lo-integrated xbiff counterpart) b) economical Developing such new functionality from start up would essentially duplicate existing applications, require a lot of resources and expertise, which is most likely is not availble to lo project. By the way: in case you're going to work on some integration to systems like redmine, plone, openerp, zimbra, just let me know, I'd like to join in. cu -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind regards Enrico Weigelt VNC - Virtual Network Consult GmbH Head Of Development Pariser Platz 4a, D-10117 Berlin Tel.: +49 (30) 3464615-20 Fax: +49 (30) 3464615-59 enrico.weig...@vnc.biz; www.vnc.de ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Adding the browser to Libreoffice
On Fri, Nov 09, 2012 at 10:10:10AM +0100, Michael Stahl wrote: i wonder why people say that an office suite needs to have an email client: is that only because Microsoft Office includes one? It is not only, and even not principally, an email client. Principally, it is what we used to call PIM or personal organiser, networked on a workgroup / entreprise / ... level As things are, it is a rather awful email client, but integration with other features make it the killer app/feature for many users: - It does calendaring, which means between Outlook users, you can just invite someone to a meeting, he says yes/no/another time, and all this appears nicely in your calendar. When connected to an Exchange server, you can see / modify / ... someone else's calendar directly (if duly authorised to do so). - Task manager / contact manager / note organiser / ... all this stuff that your PDA (which many people now call smartphone) does; and with synchronisation with said PDA. - With an Exchange/Sharepoint server, can do shared mailboxes, etc. - Journal: keep track of what you did for how long for whom (which allows you to bill it later) - It has (very limited) mailing list features, in that in an Exchange environment, you can mail all members of a specific group (possibly this has been improved since I was subjected to that kind of environment at the university; they couldn't add me to a mailing list without also increasing my powers in the windows domain, because the security group and the mail group were the same entity). - Sharepoint gives you collaboration on a document better than change tracking + email it around. Outlook is the client-side of Sharepoint (at least partially, I'm not sure I understand the whole process well). Now, whether it belongs to an Office Suite or not can be discussed; I predict opinions will hinge on whether Office Suite is everything you need to get your work done in an Office environment or stuff to make documents, which is more restrictive (and could e.g. also exclude Base). but the fact is people are used to having these features available; the general alternative to full Microsoft ecosystem needs, to compete efficiently, to propose an alternative also for these roles. Whether you call it LibreOffice Organiser / Collaborator / ... and bundle it with LibreOffice or Yoyodine Alicia and allow it to function independently is IMO not the most important point. See http://conference.libreoffice.org/talks/content/sessions/037/files/RevertingGravity.pdf and the associated video recording, when it becomes available; watch http://conference.libreoffice.org/talks/ for availability. -- Lionel ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Adding the browser to Libreoffice
On 11/09/2012 10:17 AM, Michael Stahl wrote: On 09/11/12 08:28, Florian Monfort wrote: But on the other side, browser extensions might actually be a good idea, especially for Firefox and Chrome. Opening an odt directly in you browser via a LibreOffice extension for example ? there is already a NPAPI plugin that can display documents in a compatible browser like Firefox (don't know if IE or Chrome still support NPAPI plugins). however i've never used it and don't know whether it is enabled or even installed in a default installation. see http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Npsoplugin Stephan ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Adding the browser to Libreoffice
On 09/11/12 07:17, khagaroth wrote: -1. If you want to add something new instead of improving the current functionality, the only thing that would make sense is an Outlook counterpart. That's the only thing that's missing for a complete office suite. i wonder why people say that an office suite needs to have an email client: is that only because Microsoft Office includes one? having never been a user of Microsoft Office: what specifically are the benefits of having an email client in the suite that are not currently supported in LibreOffice by its various Send As Email / Mail Merge / Address Book integration etc. features that are configurable to work with a number of external mail clients such as Thunderbird, Evolution, etc.? surely nobody actually wants to embed a mail client into a Writer document as an OLE object? ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Adding the browser to Libreoffice
On 09/11/12 08:28, Florian Monfort wrote: Mmmh. What about extensions for existing browsers ? You talk about creating a browser without even a differenciation factor which makes the idea irrelevant. And I'm not even talking about the resources as some of you might have mentioned. But on the other side, browser extensions might actually be a good idea, especially for Firefox and Chrome. Opening an odt directly in you browser via a LibreOffice extension for example ? there is already a NPAPI plugin that can display documents in a compatible browser like Firefox (don't know if IE or Chrome still support NPAPI plugins). however i've never used it and don't know whether it is enabled or even installed in a default installation. also LO implements the other side of that interface so you can embed content using NPAPI plugins in LO documents and display e.g. SWF (Flash) that way (which i've also never used, but i fixed a crash in it once because some unit test failed :). ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Adding the browser to Libreoffice
Hi there, On Thu, 2012-11-08 at 22:04 +0100, Randolph D. wrote: after some talks with some board members, the request rised to include more members and developers in the idea of adding a browser to Libreoffice. As one of the board members Randolph E-mailed since I responded to him; here are my thoughts. IMHO there could be benefits to bundling LibreOffice with other open-source products in one easy-to-get package (particularly for systems with weak package management). The nice Valo CD does this eg. Probably in future that advantage goes away in the future as app-stores become far more popular accessible. On the other hand, I don't imagine we as TDF would want to do that just now. Furthermore, if we had to bundle a browser why Dooble ? it looks like a simple wrapper around webkit. Why would we not want to bundle Chrome instead if WebKit is the answer ? or more likely Mozilla ? Of course - if the Dooble guys want to bundle LibreOffice they are more than welcome - the license allows that. Furthermore this discussion in no way belongs on the developer list, there is no code involved, please restrict replies to the discuss list. HTH, Michael. -- michael.me...@suse.com , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [tdf-discuss] Adding the browser to Libreoffice
I can see the point behind working with one or more of the open source browsers to better integrate libreoffice with the browser. I can even see the point of offering that browser as part of the download, but I am not convinced that writing yet another open source browser is a good idea. It seems a waste of developer resources and it would be unlikely that enough good developers could be attracted to do the work in order to compete with the established projects. I use coffee every day in the office but I don't expect libreoffice to supply me with it :-) Just my 2p for what its worth I am not a libreoffice developer. Thanks Tim On 8 November 2012 21:04, Randolph D. rdohm...@gmail.com wrote: Dear all, after some talks with some board members, the request rised to include more members and developers in the idea of adding a browser to Libreoffice. We know this needs time and work, but would not be impossible to add it to the installer and create a place to be for it, and see, how the community reacts to it and requests more interaction. This security orientated webkit browser would be a good codebasis for that: http://sourceforge.net/projects/dooble/ Any pro or cons from anyone? No person in the office works today without the internet, the consequence is, an office suite needs or could provide an open source browser. Anyone interested to test or join the idea or recommendations for the steps to plan? Regards Randolph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Course View Towers, Plot 21 Yusuf Lule Road, Kampala T +256 (0) 312 314 418 M +256 (0) 752 963 325 www.weberpafrica.com @TimSchofield2 ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Adding the browser to Libreoffice
-1 here too. I don't see it as a good idea, but then, unless I just didn't notice, there haven't been any reasons given, which might make a difference I suppose. I do think fixing existing functionality would be much better spent effort though. Mark Stanton One small step for mankind... ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Adding the browser to Libreoffice
- Ursprüngliche Mail - Mmmh. What about extensions for existing browsers ? You talk about creating a browser without even a differenciation factor which makes the idea irrelevant. And I'm not even talking about the resources as some of you might have mentioned. But on the other side, browser extensions might actually be a good idea, especially for Firefox and Chrome. Opening an odt directly in you browser via a LibreOffice extension for example ? +1 !! ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [tdf-discuss] Adding the browser to Libreoffice
+1 to Tim below. IMHO if we're on the topic of adding another program to LibreOffice - Project Management (PM) should be considered over adding yet another open source Browser. I'm reasonably certain there are not enough resources at the moment to do this - at least not without partnering/forking one of the existing open source PM projects. ... I can see the point behind working with one or more of the open source browsers to better integrate libreoffice with the browser. I can even see the point of offering that browser as part of the download, but I am not convinced that writing yet another open source browser is a good idea. It seems a waste of developer resources and it would be unlikely that enough good developers could be attracted to do the work in order to compete with the established projects. ... ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Adding the browser to Libreoffice
Dear all, after some talks with some board members, the request rised to include more members and developers in the idea of adding a browser to Libreoffice. We know this needs time and work, but would not be impossible to add it to the installer and create a place to be for it, and see, how the community reacts to it and requests more interaction. This security orientated webkit browser would be a good codebasis for that: http://sourceforge.net/projects/dooble/ Any pro or cons from anyone? No person in the office works today without the internet, the consequence is, an office suite needs or could provide an open source browser. Anyone interested to test or join the idea or recommendations for the steps to plan? Regards Randolph ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [tdf-discuss] Adding the browser to Libreoffice
I'm a common and simple user, no more, no less, so perhaps there's a part of the picture i'm missing, but there are some questions that arise: - What would be the befenit of adding a browser to the current office suite ? - What different features would keep you from reinventing the wheel / allow you to do a better job than other communities that are dedicated to mantaining and creating a browser ? - Is this really the best place to put dev effort at the moment for libreoffice ? My implicit response is that I don't like the idea, and I think the community will react negatively to it. To me, it is a bit far fetched. Regards Claudio On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 6:04 PM, Randolph D. rdohm...@gmail.com wrote: Dear all, after some talks with some board members, the request rised to include more members and developers in the idea of adding a browser to Libreoffice. We know this needs time and work, but would not be impossible to add it to the installer and create a place to be for it, and see, how the community reacts to it and requests more interaction. This security orientated webkit browser would be a good codebasis for that: http://sourceforge.net/projects/dooble/ Any pro or cons from anyone? No person in the office works today without the internet, the consequence is, an office suite needs or could provide an open source browser. Anyone interested to test or join the idea or recommendations for the steps to plan? Regards Randolph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Adding the browser to Libreoffice
No. --tml ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Adding the browser to Libreoffice
-1. If you want to add something new instead of improving the current functionality, the only thing that would make sense is an Outlook counterpart. That's the only thing that's missing for a complete office suite. ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Adding the browser to Libreoffice
Why not use something like the chromium browser ( aka chrome) that is open source. Why would the wheel need to be reinvented? On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 7:03 AM, Tor Lillqvist t...@iki.fi wrote: No. --tml ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice -- Jonathan Aquilina ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Adding the browser to Libreoffice
Hi Randolph, Unfortunately my first response is NO. The development might be for fun, but I didn't see a persuasive reason of why we need one browser in a office suite. IMHO, in that case we seem not to improve foreseeable usability, functionality or productivity to the suite, will we? Instead, in an other way, I'd rather to put such an effort in improving Libreoffice by put it into a browser, while obviously it is another thing to discuss. Best wishes, Yifan Randolph D. rdohm...@gmail.com 11/09/12 5:05 AM Dear all, after some talks with some board members, the request rised to include more members and developers in the idea of adding a browser to Libreoffice. We know this needs time and work, but would not be impossible to add it to the installer and create a place to be for it, and see, how the community reacts to it and requests more interaction. This security orientated webkit browser would be a good codebasis for that: http://sourceforge.net/projects/dooble/ Any pro or cons from anyone? No person in the office works today without the internet, the consequence is, an office suite needs or could provide an open source browser. Anyone interested to test or join the idea or recommendations for the steps to plan? Regards Randolph ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Adding the browser to Libreoffice
Yifan web based support is already in the works. Michael Meeks is conducting that work, but its not ready for use yet. On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 8:05 AM, Yi Fan Jiang yfji...@suse.com wrote: Hi Randolph, Unfortunately my first response is NO. The development might be for fun, but I didn't see a persuasive reason of why we need one browser in a office suite. IMHO, in that case we seem not to improve foreseeable usability, functionality or productivity to the suite, will we? Instead, in an other way, I'd rather to put such an effort in improving Libreoffice by put it into a browser, while obviously it is another thing to discuss. Best wishes, Yifan Randolph D. rdohm...@gmail.com 11/09/12 5:05 AM Dear all, after some talks with some board members, the request rised to include more members and developers in the idea of adding a browser to Libreoffice. We know this needs time and work, but would not be impossible to add it to the installer and create a place to be for it, and see, how the community reacts to it and requests more interaction. This security orientated webkit browser would be a good codebasis for that: http://sourceforge.net/projects/dooble/ Any pro or cons from anyone? No person in the office works today without the internet, the consequence is, an office suite needs or could provide an open source browser. Anyone interested to test or join the idea or recommendations for the steps to plan? Regards Randolph ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice -- Jonathan Aquilina ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: Adding the browser to Libreoffice
Hi Jonathan, Thanks for bringing it up, yes I was keeping an eye on that for quite a while :) That is one of the most impressive and exciting features whenever I introduced to people the experiments (broadway) in different premises. So I guess it would be great to have more people getting involved. Best wishes, Yifan Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.com 11/09/12 3:12 PM Yifan web based support is already in the works. Michael Meeks is conducting that work, but its not ready for use yet. On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 8:05 AM, Yi Fan Jiang yfji...@suse.com wrote: Hi Randolph, Unfortunately my first response is NO. The development might be for fun, but I didn't see a persuasive reason of why we need one browser in a office suite. IMHO, in that case we seem not to improve foreseeable usability, functionality or productivity to the suite, will we? Instead, in an other way, I'd rather to put such an effort in improving Libreoffice by put it into a browser, while obviously it is another thing to discuss. Best wishes, Yifan Randolph D. rdohm...@gmail.com 11/09/12 5:05 AM Dear all, after some talks with some board members, the request rised to include more members and developers in the idea of adding a browser to Libreoffice. We know this needs time and work, but would not be impossible to add it to the installer and create a place to be for it, and see, how the community reacts to it and requests more interaction. This security orientated webkit browser would be a good codebasis for that: http://sourceforge.net/projects/dooble/ Any pro or cons from anyone? No person in the office works today without the internet, the consequence is, an office suite needs or could provide an open source browser. Anyone interested to test or join the idea or recommendations for the steps to plan? Regards Randolph ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice -- Jonathan Aquilina ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Adding the browser to Libreoffice
Mmmh. What about extensions for existing browsers ? You talk about creating a browser without even a differenciation factor which makes the idea irrelevant. And I'm not even talking about the resources as some of you might have mentioned. But on the other side, browser extensions might actually be a good idea, especially for Firefox and Chrome. Opening an odt directly in you browser via a LibreOffice extension for example ? -- Florian Monfort Marketing Apprentice at Red Hat Marketing Team at The Document Foundation Student at France Business School +33 6 58 97 15 61 florian.monf...@gmail.com On Nov 9, 2012 8:12 AM, Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.com wrote: Yifan web based support is already in the works. Michael Meeks is conducting that work, but its not ready for use yet. On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 8:05 AM, Yi Fan Jiang yfji...@suse.com wrote: Hi Randolph, Unfortunately my first response is NO. The development might be for fun, but I didn't see a persuasive reason of why we need one browser in a office suite. IMHO, in that case we seem not to improve foreseeable usability, functionality or productivity to the suite, will we? Instead, in an other way, I'd rather to put such an effort in improving Libreoffice by put it into a browser, while obviously it is another thing to discuss. Best wishes, Yifan Randolph D. rdohm...@gmail.com 11/09/12 5:05 AM Dear all, after some talks with some board members, the request rised to include more members and developers in the idea of adding a browser to Libreoffice. We know this needs time and work, but would not be impossible to add it to the installer and create a place to be for it, and see, how the community reacts to it and requests more interaction. This security orientated webkit browser would be a good codebasis for that: http://sourceforge.net/projects/dooble/ Any pro or cons from anyone? No person in the office works today without the internet, the consequence is, an office suite needs or could provide an open source browser. Anyone interested to test or join the idea or recommendations for the steps to plan? Regards Randolph ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice -- Jonathan Aquilina -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
