Re: what's the problem with system cairo ?
On 17 November 2012 23:04, Matúš Kukan matus.ku...@gmail.com wrote: I've been gbuildizing cairo but then realized it's used only for linux [1], as also cairo/README says. Though there are many platform conditionals in various cairo related makefiles. Maybe it was used more in the past ? So can't we just use system cairo and/or pixman? Anyone could shed some light on this ? Anyway, this is what I've done so far: https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/1144 HTH, Matus ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: what's the problem with system cairo ?
Matus I am not sure if the work you have been doign has resulted in the issue I am seeing on mac, but i am using the disable autogen.sh switch for cairo yet for me my build is still failing and suggesting that cairo coudl be the cause along with some other modules in cppunit module. Is this related or not at all? On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Matúš Kukan matus.ku...@gmail.com wrote: On 17 November 2012 23:04, Matúš Kukan matus.ku...@gmail.com wrote: I've been gbuildizing cairo but then realized it's used only for linux [1], as also cairo/README says. Though there are many platform conditionals in various cairo related makefiles. Maybe it was used more in the past ? So can't we just use system cairo and/or pixman? Anyone could shed some light on this ? Anyway, this is what I've done so far: https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/1144 HTH, Matus ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice -- Jonathan Aquilina ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: what's the problem with system cairo ?
2012/11/20 Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.com: Matus I am not sure if the work you have been doign has resulted in the issue I am seeing on mac, but i am using the disable autogen.sh switch for cairo yet for me my build is still failing and suggesting that cairo coudl be the cause along with some other modules in cppunit module. Is this related or not at all? Cppunit has no dependencies to cairo. Cppunit is independent of all our internal modules. ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: what's the problem with system cairo ?
Enrico Weigelt wrote: Why not ? There are so many gtk-applications running fine in KDE. IMHO (not an KDE-user so didn't check it), the l+f will be just like Qt. I doubt that. Also there's more KDE platform integration than just the GUI. As long as there's someone actively maintaining that (relatively small) part of the code base - which is the case - it is really not a question that we do want to keep that. In fact, it is rude to suggest otherwise. Why would you consider that kde and gtk are the same 'platform' and Mac and Windows are not from a UI perspective ? [snip] My idea was, consolidating to one crossplatform widget toolkit for *nix as the first step, which should be pretty easy. Later also consolidate the other platforms (not sure how complex that would be). By the way: anybody working on porting the gtk or qt vcl to win32 or mac ? Making platform experience worse for the overwhelming majority of the user base (mac windows) does not sound like a winning strategy. Then again, helping us to reduce application code coupling with our GUI toolkit improving user experience by making dialogs more malleable is clearly a worthy goal - see Caolan's talk here http://conference.libreoffice.org/talks/content/sessions/015 , as currently the major hurdle to any changes in GUI platform abstraction is the ton of code relying on vcl implementation details. Would be awesome to get a helping hand with that. Cheers, -- Thorsten pgp0wSk6l7Mx1.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: what's the problem with system cairo ?
Hi Enrico, Dropping VCL and moving to something else is a gargantuan task. It is worth discussing -only- if we can do it completely, and the target toolkit meets all the platform, licensing, maturity and feature requirements we have. As far as I know as of today, no non-VCL toolkit does this. A further pre-condition would be having the man-decade of resource available to finish and test a complete transition to said new toolkit. Then - finally, if we have that man-decade it's not clear that this would be a priority - we have plenty of big problems around the place. If you want to do something constructive in this area - then moving away from VCL's horrific positional widget set is something that starts to reduce our toolkit API surface, improves our visual look, and allows more flexibility for native widget choice in the future - checkout: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/WidgetLayout And get stuck in ! :-) we have a feature-freeze in ~2 weeks - the more commonly-used dialogs we can get ported to .ui files before then the better we'll look for 4.0 :-) In the meantime discussing at length things that are not going to happen serves little useful purpose than creating noise ( it seems to me ). Thanks ! Michael. -- michael.me...@suse.com , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: what's the problem with system cairo ?
Hi, [1] used in: - vcl/Library_vclplug_svp : ifeq ($(GUIBASE),unx) - vcl/Library_vclplug_gtk : ENABLE_GTK - canvas/Library_cairocanvas : ENABLE_CAIRO_CANVAS e.g. for Library_cairocanvas there are also WNT... conditionals in the makefile but configure says: if test $_os = Darwin -o $_os = WINNT; then if test $enable_cairo_canvas = yes; then AC_MSG_ERROR([The cairo canvas should not be used for this platform]) I'd guess the WINNT conditionals are old leftovers, maybe there was some unfinished WINNT-cairo code, maybe limitation of cairo to unix-only was done later. IMHO, we should drop the WINNT-conditionals in cairo as first step. By the way: could we use Gtk on WINNT too ? Not sure about the real implications of that, but from an toplevel architecture view, I'd really prefer that approach to reduce amount of code and complexity. At that point, I'd also raise the question whether we really need different widget toolkits (even on the same platform). Can't we, at least on *nix, choose one crossplatform widget toolkit (I'd personally would prefer Gtk over Qt) and drop all others ? That, IMHO, should reduce the code (source) size and complexity and so maintenance and testing efforts. cu -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind regards Enrico Weigelt VNC - Virtual Network Consult GmbH Head Of Development Pariser Platz 4a, D-10117 Berlin Tel.: +49 (30) 3464615-20 Fax: +49 (30) 3464615-59 enrico.weig...@vnc.biz; www.vnc.de ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: what's the problem with system cairo ?
On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 10:46 AM, Enrico Weigelt enrico.weig...@vnc.biz wrote: At that point, I'd also raise the question whether we really need different widget toolkits (even on the same platform). Can't we, at least on *nix, choose one crossplatform widget toolkit (I'd personally would prefer Gtk over Qt) and drop all others ? and kde user would have gtk widget when using LO ? Why would you consider that kde and gtk are the same 'platform' and Mac and Windows are not from a UI perspective ? Mac is also a unix... with a different gui slapped on to of it... same difference than kde vs gtk Norbert ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: what's the problem with system cairo ?
Hi, and kde user would have gtk widget when using LO ? Why not ? There are so many gtk-applications running fine in KDE. IMHO (not an KDE-user so didn't check it), the l+f will be just like Qt. Why would you consider that kde and gtk are the same 'platform' and Mac and Windows are not from a UI perspective ? I'm not just looking at the UI only, but the whole operating system. To be more correct, replace kde by qt. On *nix, we've got a pretty clean separation between operating system (kernel+userland tools), display system (wg. X11 or DirectFB, etc), widget toolkits (qt, gtk, wxwin, ...) and (optional) user desktop environments (gnome, kde, xfce, ...). OTOH, Windows doesn't have that clean separation - it's pretty much one big bundle. (MacOSX is somewhere in the middle). The really fine thing on *nix is that it's completely up to the individual application which widget toolkit to choose, and applications normally dont depend on specific desktop environments (well, mostly ;-o). My idea was, consolidating to one crossplatform widget toolkit for *nix as the first step, which should be pretty easy. Later also consolidate the other platforms (not sure how complex that would be). By the way: anybody working on porting the gtk or qt vcl to win32 or mac ? cu -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind regards Enrico Weigelt VNC - Virtual Network Consult GmbH Head Of Development Pariser Platz 4a, D-10117 Berlin Tel.: +49 (30) 3464615-20 Fax: +49 (30) 3464615-59 enrico.weig...@vnc.biz; www.vnc.de ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: what's the problem with system cairo ?
On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 10:55 PM, Enrico Weigelt enrico.weig...@vnc.biz wrote: By the way: anybody working on porting the gtk or qt vcl to win32 or mac ? If you mean if gtk/qt programs run on Windows, yes, they do and look pretty native. The only problem with GTK is that the newest official GTK version for windows is 2.24.10 as they seriously lack Windows developers, so there is no one to make a 3.x version. On Mac, GTK was really buggy, can't check if that is already fixed as I don't have access to a Mac anymore. ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: what's the problem with system cairo ?
Hi, If you mean if gtk/qt programs run on Windows, yes, they do and look pretty native. The only problem with GTK is that the newest official GTK version for windows is 2.24.10 as they seriously lack Windows developers, so there is no one to make a 3.x version. On Mac, GTK was really buggy, can't check if that is already fixed as I don't have access to a Mac anymore. hmm, thats sad. how's the situation w/ other toolkits, eg. qt ? cu -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind regards Enrico Weigelt VNC - Virtual Network Consult GmbH Head Of Development Pariser Platz 4a, D-10117 Berlin Tel.: +49 (30) 3464615-20 Fax: +49 (30) 3464615-59 enrico.weig...@vnc.biz; www.vnc.de ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
