a, then it is needed to wrap your
>> > customization, so to create new defaults (and, consequently, a new
>> > template). When you violate this rule by modifying two instances of two
>> > implementations (footer and header) of an interface, instead of
>> creating
d. In the example we are discussing, the motto
> > is logically part of the body. Then, given that the LP template doesn't
> > meet this specs, a new template should be created by wrapping a
> > customization of the original one. Then you have clean code and you can
> > have new clear
at the LP template doesn't
> meet this specs, a new template should be created by wrapping a
> customization of the original one. Then you have clean code and you can
> have new clear borders. As you can see, this is a tedious procedure, and
> this is why I prefer to use alternative tools.
>
alternative tools.
> But let’s be specific about the problem: So your aim here is to create
> templates? Or do just want to create a cover page with something at the
> bottom?
my aim (which is not what I asked at the beginning of the thread, though)
is not to create templates (I don't ha
were talking about cover pages before that, even though it says so in the
subject. I was expecting a first page with music on it)). The reason for this
is that we usually do not exactly know where the bottom of the page is in
terms of content (again, on a cover page we do know this). So we need
On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 6:57 PM David Kastrup wrote:
> Paolo Prete writes:
>
> > If you read again my posts, you will find the core specification, with
> > a specific word, since the very first posts of this thread, not at a
> > random place. And I repeated it several times. The magic word is:
Paolo Prete writes:
> If you read again my posts, you will find the core specification, with
> a specific word, since the very first posts of this thread, not at a
> random place. And I repeated it several times. The magic word is:
> *template*.
That's a buzzphrase that doesn't concern _what_
On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 4:44 PM Valentin Petzel wrote:
> And please don't feel offended by my last mail, I'm not in the best shape,
> as a friend of mine killed himself recently.
>
>
Hello Valentin,
This is really sad news, especially if it happens at a time of pandemic,
which in itself is
I’m so sorry, Valentin! That is a challenging time to go through, and I
wish you strength and comfort. I hope you have a good support system to
lean on at this time.
I’ve been reading through this thread, and what strikes me is that the
original intent of the question and the answers and
Hello Paolo,
I did not mean a random specification, but a very important core specification
at a random point. In the beginning I asked you twice why you want to avoid
footer markups. This was not because I assume you're wrong but because we need
to know what you intend to do to properly help
Hi Valentin,
> probably some communication issue. I try to
> listen to what you try to explain, but I hardly get anything about your
> actual
> problem and mostly critique how the solutions are not clean enough for you
> without really reasoning why this would be that way.
That's what I
Hi Jean,
> What if I wanted to write a stylesheet to place page numbers
> at the bottom, and another to print them in an italic font?
Stylesheets in Lilypond is something I've been actively trying to interest the
community in for more than a decade — Urs was the only one who ever really
On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 1:38 PM Valentin Petzel wrote:
> Nothing really heated here, but probably some communication issue. I try
> to
> listen to what you try to explain, but I hardly get anything about your
> actual
> problem and mostly critique how the solutions are not clean enough for you
>
Nothing really heated here, but probably some communication issue. I try to
listen to what you try to explain, but I hardly get anything about your actual
problem and mostly critique how the solutions are not clean enough for you
without really reasoning why this would be that way.
I’ve sent
On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 10:25 AM Jean Abou Samra wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Okay, I'll let myself sucked in this (in my opinion
> unnecessarily) heated thread
I really thank you for this post. It not only explains what I had in mind
regarding the technical side of the thread; it also highlights a bigger
On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 11:57 AM Valentin Petzel wrote:
> Hello Paolo,
>
> Please note that default values are intended to be changed if required.
Hello Valentin,
as said before I don't want this kind of customization: I think it reduces
readability of the code (unless it is wrapped, but
Hello Jean,
The problem with this is that we’d need to give up control over the header
footer. We could very well just replace the current defaults with more complex
ones and use some way or another to pass styling information into the markups.
Of course we might argue that piecing together
Hello Paolo,
Please note that default values are intended to be changed if required. If you
do not change the default footer in Libre Office Writer you’d be unable to do
anything but empty footers.
Then note that headers and footers in Lilypond DO have recurring rules, just
that those rules
Hi,
Okay, I'll let myself sucked in this (in my opinion
unnecessarily) heated thread **for one post only**.
While I wouldn't call the proposed methods hacks, I
more or less share Paolo's dissatisfaction with the
current way footers are made customizable. What if
I wanted to write a stylesheet
On Saturday, December 18, 2021, Paolo Prete wrote:
>
>
> On Saturday, December 18, 2021, Aaron Hill
> wrote:
>
>> On 2021-12-17 4:28 pm, Paolo Prete wrote:
>>
>>> The example Aaron showed already added *logic* to the template
>>
>>
>
>
>
> . This is how I proceed, when programming. From what I
On Saturday, December 18, 2021, Aaron Hill wrote:
> On 2021-12-17 4:28 pm, Paolo Prete wrote:
>
>> The example Aaron showed already added *logic* to the template [...]
>>
>
> To be fair, all I showed was the default setting for oddFooterMarkup from
> titling-init.ly. Nothing added; that is
On 2021-12-17 4:28 pm, Paolo Prete wrote:
The example Aaron showed already added *logic* to the template [...]
To be fair, all I showed was the default setting for oddFooterMarkup
from titling-init.ly. Nothing added; that is simply how LilyPond works
out of the box.
Nearly everything, if
>
>
>
> Also you are wrong, recurring footers are not the rule. Many footers or
> headers for example include page numbering, which tends to be different on
> each page.
>
>
(in addition to my previous message)
This is not what I meant. The fact that page numbering is different on each
page
On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 1:00 AM Valentin Petzel wrote:
> Hello Paolo,
>
> I think you underestimate Lilypond.
Hi Valentin,
this is not true. I well know, and stated several times, that LilyPond has
the power of a nuclear reactor.
And I'm sure too that with customizations you can do whatever
Hello Paolo,
I think you underestimate Lilypond. Check out the appended file to see how
with just miniscule customizations to header and footer markups we can have
the page number position depend on a global flag page-in-header.
Also you are wrong, recurring footers are not the rule. Many
> a clean or basic template IMHO doesn't need additional logic: just set the
> recurrence values for the header and for the footer and you have done.
My Lilypond stylesheet does exactly that — no additional logic required.
K
Hello Valentin,
Of course I can put a global flag for swapping header content to footer
content and vice-versa. But what if I put the non-recurring "motto" of my
previous example in a recurring footer and preserve easy swapping? I would
have to do something like this (pseudo-code), in order to
Hello Paolo,
as already pointed out you can customize the footer markup to contain anything
you want, including custom header fields (also you can implement stuff like
swapping of page number position depending on global flags or something).
Then a footer does not need to be recurring. A
On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 8:32 PM Kieren MacMillan <
kie...@kierenmacmillan.info> wrote:
> Hi Paolo,
>
> > No. I'm applying it in its *natural* context (the programming code of
> LP, that couples two functions
>
> Since \header (where the data resides) is not a *function*, I'll be
> interested to
Hi Paolo,
> Check the attached pdf.
> Nor "author", nor "title", nor "motto" should be part of the header/footer.
> They are part of the body and author and motto have a fixed and equal offset
> respectively from the top and the bottom.
The example I sent earlier — which perhaps you've ignored,
Hi Paolo,
> No. I'm applying it in its *natural* context (the programming code of LP,
> that couples two functions
Since \header (where the data resides) is not a *function*, I'll be interested
to hear how you defend that claim.
> Please, go on in saying nonsense things: I'll just ignore you!
t 8:08 PM Carl Sorensen wrote:
>
>
>
>
> *From: *lilypond-user gmail@gnu.org> on behalf of Paolo Prete
> *Date: *Friday, December 17, 2021 at 12:06 PM
> *To: *Kieren MacMillan
> *Cc: *Valentin Petzel , Lilypond-User Mailing List <
> lilypond-user@gnu.org
On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 8:21 PM Kieren MacMillan <
kie...@kierenmacmillan.info> wrote:
> Hi Paolo,
>
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coupling_(computer_programming)#:~:text=In%20software%20engineering%2C%20coupling%20is,of%20the%20relationships%20between%20modules
>
> "In software
Hi Paolo,
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coupling_(computer_programming)#:~:text=In%20software%20engineering%2C%20coupling%20is,of%20the%20relationships%20between%20modules
"In software engineering, coupling is the degree of interdependence between
software modules; a measure of how closely
Hi Paolo,
> I don't know how to make it appear at the bottom of the page of the first
> page (no score)...
Here's one way (of probably hundreds, if not more!):
%%%
\version "2.21"
\header {
tagline = ##f
}
\bookpart {
\markup \fill-line {
""
\center-column { \vspace #50 "My
From: lilypond-user
on behalf of Paolo Prete
Date: Friday, December 17, 2021 at 12:06 PM
To: Kieren MacMillan
Cc: Valentin Petzel , Lilypond-User Mailing List
Subject: Re: String at the bottom of a cover page without using markup
Hello again Kieren ;-)
On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 7:57 PM
Hello again Kieren ;-)
On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 7:57 PM Kieren MacMillan <
kie...@kierenmacmillan.info> wrote:
> Hi Paolo,
>
> > As explained before, I don't want to proceed in this way. The string
> that I have to write at the bottom of the page is part of the *body*, not
> of the footer.
> > I
On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 7:49 PM Kieren MacMillan <
kie...@kierenmacmillan.info> wrote:
> Hi again,
>
> >> The fields *are* totally decoupled…
> > No, they are not. They are coupled on the first page. Then they are
> partially decoupled, not totally decoupled.
>
> There is absolutely no coupling:
Hi Paolo,
> As explained before, I don't want to proceed in this way. The string that I
> have to write at the bottom of the page is part of the *body*, not of the
> footer.
> I don't want to mess up the template.
Then just place it as an additional markup, between the last system of music
On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 7:46 PM Kieren MacMillan <
kie...@kierenmacmillan.info> wrote:
> Hi Paolo,
>
> > This can be solved by having a footer with separate user settable
> fields. For example: footer.text1, footer.text2 etc. Then you don't have to
> use a "copyright" field at all.
>
> You can do
Hi again,
>> The fields *are* totally decoupled…
> No, they are not. They are coupled on the first page. Then they are partially
> decoupled, not totally decoupled.
There is absolutely no coupling:
1. I can have any value I want in the "copyright" field and have it appear
nowhere in my score;
Hi Paolo,
> This can be solved by having a footer with separate user settable fields. For
> example: footer.text1, footer.text2 etc. Then you don't have to use a
> "copyright" field at all.
You can do that right now — that's literally what I've been suggesting you do.
Cheers,
Kieren.
On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 7:23 PM Kieren MacMillan <
kie...@kierenmacmillan.info> wrote:
> Hi Paolo,
>
> > I still prefer to have these fields totally decoupled.
>
> The fields *are* totally decoupled…
>
>
No, they are not. They are coupled on the first page. Then they are
partially decoupled, not
Hi Paolo,
> If I write copyright = "Composed in 2021", then I have to add a comment note
> above that line as memo for explaining that the copyright field was used for
> another purpose. Not a clean code, IMHO.
You shouldn't overload the copyright field… You should write
composed-in =
Hi Paolo,
> I still prefer to have these fields totally decoupled.
The fields *are* totally decoupled…
> I think it's reasonable that the copyright appears at the bottom, as default,
> but I don't understand the choice to couple it to the footer of the first
> page.
1. I don't understand how
On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 7:14 PM Kevin Barry wrote:
> > I'm still convinced it is a hack. Commonly, the "hack" term is used for
> indicating a work-around with some emphasis.
> > In the case we are talking about, David's suggestion would be a simple
> work-around (---> improper use of a label to
On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 6:57 PM Kieren MacMillan <
kie...@kierenmacmillan.info> wrote:
> Hi Paolo,
>
> > In fact, a footer is not simply an element that is placed on the bottom
> of a page. It also has to be recurrent in order to be a footer.
>
> To be precise, it has to *have the potential* to
> I'm still convinced it is a hack. Commonly, the "hack" term is used for
> indicating a work-around with some emphasis.
> In the case we are talking about, David's suggestion would be a simple
> work-around (---> improper use of a label to bypass the problem).
I think you're overthinking
Hi all,
> there is nothing hacky about using footer markup for its intended purpose,
> that is placing stuff at the bottom of the page
+1
It occurs to me that this whole discussion might really be a discussion about
\header disguised as a discussion about footer(s)… I've always thought it's
Hi Paolo,
> In fact, a footer is not simply an element that is placed on the bottom of a
> page. It also has to be recurrent in order to be a footer.
To be precise, it has to *have the potential* to recur: a footer on a one-page
document doesn't recur, but it's still a footer.
As I see it,
On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 6:48 PM Paolo Prete wrote:
>
>
> It also has to be recurrent in order to be a footer. And a copyright
> field is not required to be recurrent.
>
More precisely: the recurrence of the copyright (if it is recurrent) and
that of the footer should not be coupled.
On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 8:32 AM Valentin Petzel wrote:
> Hello Paolo,
> as far as I'm concerned there is nothing hacky about using footer markup
> for its intended purpose, that is placing stuff at the bottom of the page.
> Rather any other method would probably involve lots of volatile hacks.
Hello Paolo,
as far as I'm concerned there is nothing hacky about using footer markup for
its intended purpose, that is placing stuff at the bottom of the page. Rather
any other method would probably involve lots of volatile hacks. In my book a
hack would be abusing some functionality in some
Hello Valentin
On Friday, December 17, 2021, Valentin Petzel wrote:
> Hello Paolo,
> That is to be expected, as the copyright field is simply used in the
> default
> footer markup (as I’ve hinted before). Still, is there any reason not to
> use
> the footer markup for that one?
>
Because this
Thank you very much! I thought there was a non-hackish way to do that, but
I don't see alternative...
On Friday, December 17, 2021, Aaron Hill wrote:
> On 2021-12-16 3:37 pm, Paolo Prete wrote:
>
>> Thanks to all the participants to this thread. I'm a bit stuck into this.
>> Unfortunately, if I
Hello Paolo,
That is to be expected, as the copyright field is simply used in the default
footer markup (as I’ve hinted before). Still, is there any reason not to use
the footer markup for that one? If you want to get rid of anything else, just
redefine the footer markups to your liking. See
On 2021-12-16 3:37 pm, Paolo Prete wrote:
Thanks to all the participants to this thread. I'm a bit stuck into
this.
Unfortunately, if I use the copyright field of \header and I remove the
footer from the paper, then the copyright field disappears:
That's because the copyright (and tagline) is
Thanks to all the participants to this thread. I'm a bit stuck into this.
Unfortunately, if I use the copyright field of \header and I remove the
footer from the paper, then the copyright field disappears:
%
\paper {
bottom-margin = 8
top-margin = 8
% oddFooterMarkup = \markup
On 16/12/2021 21:34, Paolo Prete wrote:
Hello Valentin and David,
I could place the text at the bottom of the page, with \header {
copyright = "some text" } but I wonder if is there a way to offset it
(from bottom) of a given value (without setting \paper { bottom-margin
= offset }, which
Hello Paolo,
try copyright = \markup\column {"some text" \vspace #1 } (or whatever)
Cheers,
Valentin
16.12.2021 23:03:27 Paolo Prete :
> Hello Valentin and David,
>
> I could place the text at the bottom of the page, with \header { copyright =
> "some text" } but I wonder if is there a way
Hello Valentin and David,
I could place the text at the bottom of the page, with \header { copyright
= "some text" } but I wonder if is there a way to offset it (from bottom)
of a given value (without setting \paper { bottom-margin = offset }, which
would affect the entire document.
thanks!
P
Thanks, got it!
On Thursday, December 16, 2021, Valentin Petzel wrote:
> Hello Paolo,
>
> the only way I think this would be possible would be either using footer
> markup (like using the copyright field) or hacking footnotes to get your
> way.
>
> That being said, is there any reason not to
All right, thanks!
On Thursday, December 16, 2021, Valentin Petzel wrote:
> Hello Paolo,
>
> the only way I think this would be possible would be either using footer
> markup (like using the copyright field) or hacking footnotes to get your
> way.
>
> That being said, is there any reason not to
Thanks, got it!
On Wednesday, December 15, 2021, David Kastrup wrote:
> Paolo Prete writes:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > on the very first page of a score, is there a way to place a string at
> the
> > bottom (minus the bottom margin), possibly without using the footer
> markup?
>
> Isn't that more or
Hello Paolo,
the only way I think this would be possible would be either using footer markup
(like using the copyright field) or hacking footnotes to get your way.
That being said, is there any reason not to use footer markup? After all this
is basically what that is for.
Cheers,
Valentin
Paolo Prete writes:
> Hello,
>
> on the very first page of a score, is there a way to place a string at the
> bottom (minus the bottom margin), possibly without using the footer markup?
Isn't that more or less what the copyright header field is for?
--
David Kastrup
Hello,
on the very first page of a score, is there a way to place a string at the
bottom (minus the bottom margin), possibly without using the footer markup?
Thanks!
P
Thanks for all your useful thoughts.
I think I'll try to make this with LateX for a start and see if I can manage
it!
--
Sent from: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/User-f3.html
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On 12.09.2018 00:48, Noeck wrote:
I guess the wording might be just a bit misleading, but I disagree with
that. Yes, LaTeX is good for scientific papers. But that's not because
looks don't matter. It's because of the beautiful look of mathematical
formulae, the clear and automatic structure of
t; that’s where LaTeX is
> > perfect, no doubt. If you’re going to design a poster, LaTeX is most
> > certainly not the tool of choice, because you want to have total
> > control over where everything is placed; visuals are essential. A
> > cover page is somewhere inbetween
Hi,
Am 11.09.2018 um 23:53 schrieb Simon Albrecht:
> On 11.09.2018 17:50, foxfanfare wrote:
>> - Is Latex a good replacement for Word?
>
> Maybe. LaTeX becomes less of a good choice the more you actually want to
> design the visuals. In a scientific paper, looks don’t matter at all,
> it’s only
going to design a poster, LaTeX is most certainly not the tool of
choice, because you want to have total control over where everything is
placed; visuals are essential.
A cover page is somewhere inbetween, but further to the poster side, I’d
say.
Interesting. The total control of the layout is very
aTeX is most certainly not the tool of
> choice, because you want to have total control over where everything is
> placed; visuals are essential.
> A cover page is somewhere inbetween, but further to the poster side, I’d
> say.
Interesting. The total control of the layout is very imp
. If
you’re going to design a poster, LaTeX is most certainly not the tool of
choice, because you want to have total control over where everything is
placed; visuals are essential.
A cover page is somewhere inbetween, but further to the poster side, I’d
say.
What manager you'd recommend
Aaron Hill wrote
> In fact, that is
> probably a good strategy for any application you are using that is not
> currently cross-platform. Seek out an alternative and start getting
> used to it now while you can still use your current setup.
>
> (Side note: Bear in mind you can start playing
foxfanfare writes:
> David Wright wrote
>> Judging from your posts here, I'm kind of surprised that you aren't
>> already using it, as you would seem to have the aptitude for it.
>
> Thanks David. But it is not as easy as it seems :) It is quite difficult to
> change all your habits, to learn
On 2018-09-11 1:07 pm, foxfanfare wrote:
Thanks David. But it is not as easy as it seems :) It is quite
difficult to
change all your habits, to learn everything again, even if I'm
convinced
about the necessities to do so.
There are a number of cross-platform TeX-centric editors out there.
David Wright wrote
> Judging from your posts here, I'm kind of surprised that you aren't
> already using it, as you would seem to have the aptitude for it.
Thanks David. But it is not as easy as it seems :) It is quite difficult to
change all your habits, to learn everything again, even if I'm
On Tue 11 Sep 2018 at 13:20:34 (-0400), Kieren MacMillan wrote:
> Hi fox,
>
> > Does this means the PDF is imported in LaTex, a bit like with inDesign?
>
> Not exactly… It’s included at PDF generation time, a bit like an \include
> file in Lilypond.
Because both LP and LaTeX are text-sourced,
On Tue 11 Sep 2018 at 09:11:51 (-0700), foxfanfare wrote:
> Malte Meyn-3 wrote
> > What do you mean by “manager”? What OS are you using?
>
> Thanks David & Malte for your first comments. What I meant by manager is a
> bit like Frescobaldi is to LilyPond to me! I'm still using Windows but
>
Am 11. September 2018 19:15:51 MESZ schrieb foxfanfare :
>Kieren MacMillan wrote
>> A decade ago, I tried to use Lilypond for the whole deal… but soon
>found
>> out it was not powerful or flexible enough.
>
>That's interesting! That's also what I fear, but I didn't try yet...
>
>
>Kieren
Hi fox,
> Does this means the PDF is imported in LaTex, a bit like with inDesign?
Not exactly… It’s included at PDF generation time, a bit like an \include file
in Lilypond.
> Don't you lose some margins precision?
Not that I’ve noticed. The file is simply included at full size.
> Is it
Kieren MacMillan wrote
> A decade ago, I tried to use Lilypond for the whole deal… but soon found
> out it was not powerful or flexible enough.
That's interesting! That's also what I fear, but I didn't try yet...
Kieren MacMillan wrote
> 2. Edit the "wrapper" in LaTeX, with the PDF score
Hi fox,
> I'd like now to go a bit further and create the "whole" score,
> with all the front and back pages, prefaces, etc.
>
> I'd like to get your experiences about creating the front page cover for
> your scores. What really is your process for doing this.
A decade ago, I tried to use
Malte Meyn-3 wrote
> What do you mean by “manager”? What OS are you using?
Thanks David & Malte for your first comments. What I meant by manager is a
bit like Frescobaldi is to LilyPond to me! I'm still using Windows but
probably going to change for Linux soon...
--
Sent from:
foxfanfare writes:
> All your comments really interest me, but here are some questions I'd also
> wish to ask:
>
> - Is Latex a good replacement for Word?
In the same manner as a CNC hand plane (if there is such a thing) is a
good replacement for a belt sander. Similar basic purpose, totally
Am 11.09.18 um 17:50 schrieb foxfanfare:
- Is Latex a good replacement for Word? What manager you'd recommend to use?
If you want a replacement similar to MS Word, use LibreOffice instead.
But LaTeX is good in another way: It’s text based and WYGIWYM like
LilyPond. And there is lyluatex, a
Hi all,
I've ended the process of re-engraving several of my scores to LilyPond (and
I'm still astounded by it, the more I use it, the less I see myself using
again Sibelius or buying Dorico...). But I'd like now to go a bit further
and create the "whole" score, with all the front and back pages,
> > {
> > \header{}
> > music
> > }
> >
> > } % end book
> >
> >
> >
> > if I use \pageBreak after \book I get the header of the first work on the
> > front page.
> > Is there a simple way just to have a blank first/cover page please ?
> >
> >
> > Paul
> >
>
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> I use (crudely)
>
> \book
> {
>
> \bookpart
> {
> \header {}
> music.
> }
> \bookpart
> {
> \header{}
> music
> }
>
> } % end book
>
>
>
> if I use \pageBreak after \book I get the header of the first work on the
>
I use \pageBreak after \book I get the header of the first work on
> the front page.
> Is there a simple way just to have a blank first/cover page please ?
>
>
> Paul
Hi,
To skip a page use an invisible markup:
\markup{" "}
\pageBreak
Hope this helps,
Jean
_
{
\bookpart
{
\header {}
music.
}
\bookpart
{
\header{}
music
}
} % end book
if I use \pageBreak after \book I get the header of the first work on the
front page.
Is there a simple way just to have a blank first/cover page please ?
Paul
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