On 12/02/2013 02:03 AM, Paul Morris wrote:
I have been keeping my eye on Gittip. It's basically a tool that lets
individuals make ongoing weekly payments to other individuals (or
organizations) to support whatever work they do. It happens that more
often than not this is volunteer work on
On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:18 PM, Chris Crossen elaparic...@gmail.com wrote:
I just wanted to re-emphasize that original point and hope the discussion has
convinced a few more of us to make a small, but regular donation.
If everyone on the mailing list chipped in 1 euro a month, that would
get
Christ van Willegen cvwille...@gmail.com writes:
On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:18 PM, Chris Crossen elaparic...@gmail.com wrote:
I just wanted to re-emphasize that original point and hope the
discussion has convinced a few more of us to make a small, but
regular donation.
If everyone on the
On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:11 AM, David Kastrup d...@gnu.org wrote:
Christ van Willegen cvwille...@gmail.com writes:
If everyone on the mailing list chipped in 1 euro a month, that would
get David out of financial problems, probably for the rest of his
life...
Just for the record, I am not
Hi,
we are nearing the end of the year, and, uh, it looks like I could make use
of some of the spirit of giving.
As you can see from the accompanying report, the current number of people
supporting my work on LilyPond financially is on the decline:
while there are a few large donors
Hi all,
a very important discussion! A couple thoughts:
2013/12/1 Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.com:
LP came out in the midst of other packages that already existed. As a
result, it is fighting for marketshare in a relatively mature market.
Granted, it is possible to overcome this
On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 1:31 PM, David Kastrup d...@gnu.org wrote:
SoundsFromSound soundsfromso...@gmail.com writes:
The biggest complaint I've heard from many of my peers (when it comes
to possibly switching from Finale/Sibelius) is that LilyPond looks
like way too much work and Text
On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 9:09 AM, Henning Hraban Ramm lilypon...@fiee.netwrote:
I guess „we“ have a chance in combination with TeX, i.e. at universities
etc. where TeX is in broad use, since the approach and needed expertise is
similar.
Good luck with that, at least if my university was any
Hi all,
this is quite a different subject from the promoting LilyPond stuff,
so i separated this thread.
2013/12/1 David Kastrup d...@gnu.org:
Kieren wrote:
Result? Not a single successful convert [to Lily] to date.
I think Frescobaldi with its templates would likely be helpful.
Possibly
On 01/12/13 15:09, immanuel litzroth wrote:
1) I don't seem to run into many of these problems with lilypond and I do
transcriptions of small ensembles *and* export all
the voices separately (that's including drums) -- I almost never have to clean
up for readability issues, and don't have the
2) The contention was that this stuff would be easier in Sibelius. Not
that you
can get it right there too.
Sibelius doesn't get things automatically right as well as Lilypond does,
but it's usually much, much easier to correct or customize them when it
doesn't give you what you want,
Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.com writes:
On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 1:31 PM, David Kastrup d...@gnu.org wrote:
Well, I'd argue that a mouse makes absolutely no sense for music input.
A practised typist can write several hundred words per minute and keep
this up for quite a long time.
I'm a retired school teacher, I know some C++, I'd be happy to help out
with dev if I can, though I may not know enough, but would be willing to
try. I know some c++ and lisp/scheme and music theory. I have a Windows 7
laptop, Netbeans for C++ dev. Let me know if there may be ways to help out
R.D. Latimer rdlati...@gmail.com writes:
I'm a retired school teacher, I know some C++, I'd be happy to help
out with dev if I can, though I may not know enough, but would be
willing to try. I know some c++ and lisp/scheme and music theory. I
have a Windows 7 laptop, Netbeans for C++ dev.
This is *exactly* why I've been playing/experimenting with GUI
backends/frontends since 2004. If you haven't done so, please have
a look at Schikkers List
http://lilypond.org/schikkers
This looks really cool! (Has it improved a lot or is the html5 demo new,
compared to last year? The
2013/12/3 Noeck noeck.marb...@gmx.de
This is *exactly* why I've been playing/experimenting with GUI
backends/frontends since 2004. If you haven't done so, please have
a look at Schikkers List
http://lilypond.org/schikkers
This looks really cool! (Has it improved a lot or is the
Carl Peterson carlopeter...@gmail.com writes:
On Dec 1, 2013 1:47 AM, David Kastrup d...@gnu.org wrote:
Noeck noeck.marb...@gmx.de writes:
I personally don't understand why LP is not common at music
universities but that's probably a chicken-or-the-egg thing and the
lack of large scale
Am 01.12.2013 09:45, schrieb David Kastrup:
This means that the first hurdle is overcoming the inertia of I
already have x, why should I switch? Which leads to (2) even if I can
demonstrate that LP overcomes the technical difficulties of another
notation program, people are going to be
I think it hasn't been stressed enough yet that the text input by itself is a
huge hurdle. I mean, not the syntax but the plain fact.
Amen.
If you're looking at a real-world score's input file it's overwhelmingly
daunting.
…even for me, and I’m one of Lily’s biggest users in terms of
Hi David,
The situation is not really all that unfavorable for LilyPond.
Having been “in the trenches” perhaps more than most others on this list, I can
tell you the situation *is* really all that unfavorable for Lilypond.
In my opinion, there are only two things that will ever change this:
Kieren MacMillan kieren_macmil...@sympatico.ca writes:
Hi David,
The situation is not really all that unfavorable for LilyPond.
Having been “in the trenches” perhaps more than most others on this
list, I can tell you the situation *is* really all that unfavorable
for Lilypond.
In my
Kieren MacMillan writes:
The situation is not really all that unfavorable for LilyPond.
Having been “in the trenches” perhaps more than most others on this
list, I can tell you the situation *is* really all that unfavorable
for Lilypond.
In my opinion, there are only two things that will
Hi David,
1. A real, live, useable, full-functioned GUI
According to the advertising, that's Denemo.
Perhaps when I’ve got a little time to spare, I’ll give that a look — if it’s
really all that, it might become part of my standard “proselytizing” package.
LilyPond for output only is not
Hi Jan,
This is *exactly* why I've been playing/experimenting with GUI
backends/frontends since 2004. If you haven't done so, please have
a look at Schikkers List
http://lilypond.org/schikkers
and come help me out! If only to lure people over to LilyPond,
increase its potential
Kieren MacMillan kieren_macmil...@sympatico.ca schrieb:
Hi David,
1. A real, live, useable, full-functioned GUI
According to the advertising, that's Denemo.
Perhaps when I’ve got a little time to spare, I’ll give that a look —
if it’s really all that, it might become part of my standard
Kieren MacMillan kieren_macmil...@sympatico.ca writes:
I think it hasn't been stressed enough yet that the text input by
itself is a huge hurdle. I mean, not the syntax but the plain fact.
Amen.
If you're looking at a real-world score's input file it's
overwhelmingly daunting.
…even for
Hi Urs,
If anybody is interested in this and has experience with Python and/or
MusicXML please contact us
I have no Python experience, but lots of XML/XSL(T) experience — and, of
course, a proven willingness to financially support Lilypond.
Will those help?
Kieren.
Hi David,
we'll probably need some open discussion of common problems and
imaginary input that would make it considerably easier for people to
overcome them.
I’m right in the middle of an immense engraving project — I have lots of fodder
and examples for such a discussion.
LilyPond's rigid
Jan Nieuwenhuizen jann...@gnu.org writes:
Kieren MacMillan writes:
(so that users *never* have to see Lilypond “code”); or
and this is what I don't understand.
My idea is exactly the opposite: to show people the corresponding text
input also,
also
so that they have a very easy way to
On 30/11/13 21:40, David Kastrup wrote:
The backend is much less coherent, so expertise is harder to acquire,
people tend to work with partial knowledge, and progress is a lot more
fragile. We need to get those four months down, and yes, a shouting
match is not going to help. What will help is
On 01/12/13 09:45, David Kastrup wrote:
Finale output is ugly to the degree where it is distracting readability,
particularly for instrumentalists. Sibelius' corporate parent has fired
its core developer team in the UK, including its original authors.
Steinberg does not yet have a finished
Joseph Rushton Wakeling joseph.wakel...@webdrake.net writes:
On 30/11/13 21:40, David Kastrup wrote:
The backend is much less coherent, so expertise is harder to acquire,
people tend to work with partial knowledge, and progress is a lot
more fragile. We need to get those four months down,
On 01/12/13 12:49, David Kastrup wrote:
I don't think this sort of preplanning works out well. Mostly it just
leads to people going away until the stuff they are not interested in is
done. We need to figure out better ways to work on parallel and partly
conflicting goals.
Yes, I guess that's
Hi Joseph,
The default output of Finale is indeed ugly, and I was reminded that Sibelius
too has its problems when I recently received a score from a friend which
would surely have looked much better done in Lilypond.
The thing is, though, both are so easy to tweak, it doesn't matter.
I
On 01/12/13 14:00, Kieren MacMillan wrote:
I disagree somewhat… and so do most of my Finale- and Sibelius-using friends
and colleagues, who complain endlessly about how much time it takes to tweak
scores and parts.
How does that compare to their reaction to Lilypond? I would guess amazement
On Sun, 2013-12-01 at 11:41 +0100, David Kastrup wrote:
In my opinion, there are only two things that will ever change this:
1. A real, live, useable, full-functioned GUI (so that users *never*
have to see Lilypond “code”);
According to the advertising, that's Denemo.
I hope nothing I
On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Joseph Rushton Wakeling
joseph.wakel...@webdrake.net wrote:
On 01/12/13 09:45, David Kastrup wrote:
Finale output is ugly to the degree where it is distracting readability,
particularly for instrumentalists. Sibelius' corporate parent has fired
its core
Kieren MacMillan kieren_macmil...@sympatico.ca writes:
Hi Joseph,
The default output of Finale is indeed ugly, and I was reminded that
Sibelius too has its problems when I recently received a score from
a friend which would surely have looked much better done in
Lilypond.
The thing is,
On 01/12/13 14:13, immanuel litzroth wrote:
I follow a music education program that requires me to play in a combo 1 hour a
week. The scores there are prepared
by paid professionals, usually in Sibelius. They are invariably late, and
usually unreadable when they arrive.
Chords on top of each
On 01/12/13 14:56, immanuel litzroth wrote:
Here's a nice example.
That's almost certainly someone writing to full score (which has particular
spacing properties) and auto-exporting to parts without ever actually looking at
them. Surprise to surprise, the horizontal spacing issues are
Am 2013-12-01 um 15:26 schrieb Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org:
I think it hasn't been stressed enough yet that the text input by itself is a
huge hurdle. I mean, not the syntax but the plain fact.
If you're looking at a real-world score's input file it's overwhelmingly
daunting. And if you
On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 3:03 PM, Joseph Rushton Wakeling
joseph.wakel...@webdrake.net wrote:
On 01/12/13 14:56, immanuel litzroth wrote:
Here's a nice example.
That's almost certainly someone writing to full score (which has
particular spacing properties) and auto-exporting to parts
Hi David,
I'm always a bit surprised about the low resonance on features like
URL:http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=3648
Issue 3648: Patch: Isolated durations in music sequences now stand for
unpitched notes
It’s a nice feature… but applicable, I would imagine, to a
Am 2013-12-01 um 19:15 schrieb David Kastrup d...@gnu.org:
I'm always a bit surprised about the low resonance on features like
URL:http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=3648
Issue 3648: Patch: Isolated durations in music sequences now stand for
unpitched notes
I hear you - as
How does that compare to their reaction to Lilypond? I would guess amazement
at how much Lilypond gets right, but frustration with how relatively
complicated it is to enter a score and see the results? And probably
overwhelming frustration when they hit the point of wanting to tweak
Hi Richard,
They had posted the musicXML too, so I imported it into Denemo
and re-typeset it with LilyPond. The result was this:
http://imslp.org/wiki/Oboe_Sonata_in_C_major_(Albinoni,_Tomaso)
I didn't need to tweak it with LilyPond, and, for fun, I transposed it
up a minor third for
On Sun, 2013-12-01 at 09:19 -0500, Kieren MacMillan wrote:
On the other hand, something really useful — and helpful in getting
users “out of the code” — would be the ability to say:
lastCymbalCrash = {
\atMoment (256 . 1) b4\accent\sff
}
and then output a 256-measure part (complete
Hi Richard,
Ha! It's funny you should mention this, but I just added a command to
Denemo to create a staff complete with time signature changes and empty
measures for a score (for a completely different reason).
Synchronicity!
Front-end stuff is so easy to do with a pre-processor like
Am 01.12.2013 12:04, schrieb Kieren MacMillan:
Hi Urs,
If anybody is interested in this and has experience with Python and/or MusicXML
please contact us
I have no Python experience, but lots of XML/XSL(T) experience — and, of
course, a proven willingness to financially support Lilypond.
On Sun, 1 Dec 2013, Kieren MacMillan wrote:
I am looking forward to examining Denemo, once my current project load
diminishes to the point where “free time” is a reality.
Denemo is mentioned several times in this thread.
I have installed and tried Denemo several times recently and in the
On Sun, 2013-12-01 at 17:27 +0100, Martin Tarenskeen wrote:
On Sun, 1 Dec 2013, Kieren MacMillan wrote:
I am looking forward to examining Denemo, once my current project load
diminishes to the point where “free time” is a reality.
Denemo is mentioned several times in this thread.
I
Richard Shann rich...@rshann.plus.com writes:
On Sun, 2013-12-01 at 11:41 +0100, David Kastrup wrote:
In my opinion, there are only two things that will ever change this:
1. A real, live, useable, full-functioned GUI (so that users *never*
have to see Lilypond “code”);
According to the
Henning Hraban Ramm lilypon...@fiee.net writes:
Am 2013-12-01 um 19:15 schrieb David Kastrup d...@gnu.org:
I'm always a bit surprised about the low resonance on features like
URL:http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=3648
Issue 3648: Patch: Isolated durations in music
Kieren MacMillan kieren_macmil...@sympatico.ca writes:
Hi David,
I'm always a bit surprised about the low resonance on features like
URL:http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=3648
Issue 3648: Patch: Isolated durations in music sequences now stand for
unpitched notes
It’s a
Martin Tarenskeen m.tarensk...@zonnet.nl writes:
On Sun, 1 Dec 2013, Kieren MacMillan wrote:
I am looking forward to examining Denemo, once my current project
load diminishes to the point where “free time” is a reality.
Denemo is mentioned several times in this thread.
I have installed
this message in context:
http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Supporting-my-work-on-LilyPond-financially-tp154644p154813.html
Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
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SoundsFromSound soundsfromso...@gmail.com writes:
The biggest complaint I've heard from many of my peers (when it comes
to possibly switching from Finale/Sibelius) is that LilyPond looks
like way too much work and Text input?? That makes absolutely no
sense for music. You're not writing a
David Kastrup d...@gnu.org schrieb:
SoundsFromSound soundsfromso...@gmail.com writes:
The biggest complaint I've heard from many of my peers (when it comes
to possibly switching from Finale/Sibelius) is that LilyPond looks
like way too much work and Text input?? That makes absolutely no
On Nov 30, 2013, at 12:06 AM, Janek Warchoł janek.lilyp...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
2013/11/29 David Kastrup d...@gnu.org:
But one person who just works on LilyPond can make a difference. Can we
keep this up?
As you can see, it appears that David (d...@gnu.org) is doing abou
as much as
Mike Solomon m...@mikesolomon.org writes:
On Nov 30, 2013, at 12:06 AM, Janek Warchoł janek.lilyp...@gmail.com wrote:
2013/11/29 David Kastrup d...@gnu.org:
But one person who just works on LilyPond can make a difference. Can we
keep this up?
As you can see, it appears that David
2013/11/30 Mike Solomon m...@mikesolomon.org:
On Nov 30, 2013, at 12:06 AM, Janek Warchoł janek.lilyp...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
2013/11/29 David Kastrup d...@gnu.org:
But one person who just works on LilyPond can make a difference. Can we
keep this up?
As you can see, it appears that
2013/11/30 Mike Solomon m...@mikesolomon.org:
I would argue that the point that Janek brings up above is not a healthy sign
for LilyPond development.
Several developers, including myself, have lowered their participation
considerably over the past two years.
Maybe i should ask the question
2013/11/30 David Kastrup d...@gnu.org:
Mike Solomon m...@mikesolomon.org writes:
I would argue that the point that Janek brings up above is not a
healthy sign for LilyPond development. Several developers, including
myself, have lowered their participation considerably over the past
two
Janek Warchoł janek.lilyp...@gmail.com writes:
The only way that i see in which David influences development is that
he doesn't allow bad code during reviews, and it's hard to write good
code when there's a lot of bad code and architectural problems already
in the codebase (at least that's
Janek Warchoł janek.lilyp...@gmail.com writes:
[] It is clear that our development cycles have not worked out
well. It's taken probably 9 months at least from the time we wanted
to go for releasing 2.18 to now, and it has been frustrating to
people. []
Well, i was intending to
2013/11/30 David Kastrup d...@gnu.org:
Janek Warchoł janek.lilyp...@gmail.com writes:
[] It is clear that our development cycles have not worked out
well. It's taken probably 9 months at least from the time we wanted
to go for releasing 2.18 to now, and it has been frustrating to
Am 30.11.2013 22:10, schrieb David Kastrup:
Janek Warchoł janek.lilyp...@gmail.com writes:
The only way that i see in which David influences development is that
he doesn't allow bad code during reviews, and it's hard to write good
code when there's a lot of bad code and architectural
Hi,
I was thinking about fund raising for some days now. I see several
possible sources for supporting LP financially:
1) Private donations from developers:
This seems to be partly the case and you have my deep respect that you
both work for and spend money on LP. This group probably stays
On Sun, 1 Dec 2013, Noeck wrote:
But: »Der Ton macht die Musik« (for non German speakers: it's not what
you say but the way you say it).
I can understand both German and English. But I have always thought the
original is in French: C'est le ton qui fait la musique. Sounds good to
me :-)
Noeck noeck.marb...@gmx.de writes:
2) Private donations from hobby users:
Probably most users are not paid for their music engraving. If LP would
not exist (nor some other free (as in free beer) software), they might
have to pay for Finale (600$) or Sibelius (550€). But probably they
would
On Dec 1, 2013 1:47 AM, David Kastrup d...@gnu.org wrote:
Noeck noeck.marb...@gmx.de writes:
I personally don't understand why LP is not common at music
universities but that's probably a chicken-or-the-egg thing and the
lack of large scale marketing. But this would also need official
Hi,
2013/11/29 David Kastrup d...@gnu.org:
There is still a lot LilyPond is in need of doing, I am pretty positive
that 2.18 will be out before Christmas, and I am responsible for a large
part of the developments even though the majority of contributions and
of organizational tasks and
As many of you already know, I have been working on LilyPond (and
nothing else) for quite a while, and since I asked for financial support
in March
URL:http://news.lilynet.net/?The-LilyPond-Report-24#an_urgent_request_for_funding
(read the following LilyPond reports for information on the
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