Re: engraving rules question - voices with merged heads
2011/1/29 James Bailey derhindem...@googlemail.com:
On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:17 AM, Janek Warchoł wrote:
Hi,
recently i was told that this notation
{ \mergeDifferentlyHeadedOn b'2 \\ { b'8 a' g' f' } }
is not allowed in vocal music (i.e., the noteheads shouldn't be
merged). Is that true?
correct. you shouldn't merge heads in vocal music.
Interesting. Is that true also when both voices have filled noteheads, i.e.
{ { b'4 g' } \\ { b'8 a' g' f' } }
?
Here LilyPond merges noteheads automatically, and i don't remember any
simple means to switch that off.
Thanks,
Janek
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Re: engraving rules question - voices with merged heads
W dniu 29 stycznia 2011 12:00:50 UTC+1 użytkownik James Bailey
derhindem...@googlemail.com napisał:
On Jan 29, 2011, at 11:25 AM, Janek Warchoł wrote:
2011/1/29 James Bailey derhindem...@googlemail.com:
On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:17 AM, Janek Warchoł wrote:
Hi,
recently i was told that this notation
{ \mergeDifferentlyHeadedOn b'2 \\ { b'8 a' g' f' } }
is not allowed in vocal music (i.e., the noteheads shouldn't be
merged). Is that true?
correct. you shouldn't merge heads in vocal music.
Interesting. Is that true also when both voices have filled noteheads,
i.e.
{ { b'4 g' } \\ { b'8 a' g' f' } }
?
Here LilyPond merges noteheads automatically, and i don't remember any
simple means to switch that off.
Thanks,
Janek
This is different. One voice has a beam, while the other doesn't. There
isn't any way to mistake a half note for a quarter note in this case, as is
the case in the other.
Sorry, but it doesn't make sense to me. In both examples one voice has
a beam and the other doesn't.
Please look at the attachments:
A - everything is clear. notes in upper voice must be quarters because
they have filled heads and no beams, while notes in lower voice must
be eights because they have filled heads and beams. Here we agree.
B - note in upper voice must be a half because it has a hollow
notehead and no beam. First note in lower voice has a hollow notehead,
but it cannot be a half because it has a beam. Therefore, it must be
an eight note. I don't see any way in which a half note could be
mistaken for a quarter note in this example.
The only case in which a half note could be mistaken for a quarter
note would be in C. I agree that merging heads in C would be totally
unacceptable.
thanks,
Janek
attachment: C.pngattachment: A.pngattachment: B.png___
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Re: engraving rules question - voices with merged heads
Janek Warchoł lemniskata.bernoullego at gmail.com writes:
recently i was told that this notation
{ \mergeDifferentlyHeadedOn b'2 \\ { b'8 a' g' f' } }
is not allowed in vocal music (i.e., the noteheads shouldn't be
merged). Is that true?
By the way, if there is a notehead shared by two voices (i.e. with two
stems, up and down), should there be two dots (one dot for each voice)
or one dot? Would one dot be a source of errors (it may look like it
applies only to one voice)?
Jan, I borrowed a copy of Kurt Stone's book from the library this week.
He merges note heads in vocal music (p. 300) but only when they are both
filled heads. In general (p. 78), he considers the rule to be
merge Differently Headed Off
If both voices are dotted, he says only one dot on a merged note (p. 125).
He acknowledges the potential confusion, but says it is tradition, and
points out that there is not really room for two dots if the note lies
in a space on the staff.
He advises (p. 126) merge Differently Dotted /only/ in cases where the
reader can see instantly, from the next note, which voice gets the dot.
-Keith
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Re: engraving rules question - voices with merged heads
On Jan 29, 2011, at 9:40 PM, Janek Warchoł wrote:
W dniu 29 stycznia 2011 12:00:50 UTC+1 użytkownik James Bailey
derhindem...@googlemail.com napisał:
On Jan 29, 2011, at 11:25 AM, Janek Warchoł wrote:
2011/1/29 James Bailey derhindem...@googlemail.com:
On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:17 AM, Janek Warchoł wrote:
Hi,
recently i was told that this notation
{ \mergeDifferentlyHeadedOn b'2 \\ { b'8 a' g' f' } }
is not allowed in vocal music (i.e., the noteheads shouldn't be
merged). Is that true?
correct. you shouldn't merge heads in vocal music.
Interesting. Is that true also when both voices have filled noteheads,
i.e.
{ { b'4 g' } \\ { b'8 a' g' f' } }
?
Here LilyPond merges noteheads automatically, and i don't remember any
simple means to switch that off.
Thanks,
Janek
This is different. One voice has a beam, while the other doesn't. There
isn't any way to mistake a half note for a quarter note in this case, as is
the case in the other.
Sorry, but it doesn't make sense to me. In both examples one voice has
a beam and the other doesn't.
Please look at the attachments:
A - everything is clear. notes in upper voice must be quarters because
they have filled heads and no beams, while notes in lower voice must
be eights because they have filled heads and beams. Here we agree.
B - note in upper voice must be a half because it has a hollow
notehead and no beam. First note in lower voice has a hollow notehead,
but it cannot be a half because it has a beam. Therefore, it must be
an eight note. I don't see any way in which a half note could be
mistaken for a quarter note in this example.
This is not normal vocal music engraving. This is more typical of piano music.
I've seen this in piano music, and never in vocal music. Were I singing this,
I'd understand what it meant, but it seems an unnecessary complication. Vocal
music engraving traditions stem from everything being sight read. I'd have to
read this twice, or at least stumble over it once before I realized that it
wasn't a half note for the lower voice.
The only case in which a half note could be mistaken for a quarter
note would be in C. I agree that merging heads in C would be totally
unacceptable.
thanks,
Janek
C.pngA.pngB.png
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Re: engraving rules question - voices with merged heads
I agree with James. As I think I've commented in another thread, I've
seen many rehearsals interrupted when singers needed to ask a question
because of confusing notation. Think of it this way: as a composer
you want to give the performers every possible chance to get it right
the first time so they can spend more time working on bringing your
music to life in performance.
Cheers,
Mike
2011/1/29 James Bailey derhindem...@googlemail.com:
On Jan 29, 2011, at 9:40 PM, Janek Warchoł wrote:
W dniu 29 stycznia 2011 12:00:50 UTC+1 użytkownik James Bailey
derhindem...@googlemail.com napisał:
On Jan 29, 2011, at 11:25 AM, Janek Warchoł wrote:
2011/1/29 James Bailey derhindem...@googlemail.com:
On Jan 29, 2011, at 12:17 AM, Janek Warchoł wrote:
Hi,
recently i was told that this notation
{ \mergeDifferentlyHeadedOn b'2 \\ { b'8 a' g' f' } }
is not allowed in vocal music (i.e., the noteheads shouldn't be
merged). Is that true?
correct. you shouldn't merge heads in vocal music.
Interesting. Is that true also when both voices have filled noteheads,
i.e.
{ { b'4 g' } \\ { b'8 a' g' f' } }
?
Here LilyPond merges noteheads automatically, and i don't remember any
simple means to switch that off.
Thanks,
Janek
This is different. One voice has a beam, while the other doesn't. There
isn't any way to mistake a half note for a quarter note in this case, as is
the case in the other.
Sorry, but it doesn't make sense to me. In both examples one voice has
a beam and the other doesn't.
Please look at the attachments:
A - everything is clear. notes in upper voice must be quarters because
they have filled heads and no beams, while notes in lower voice must
be eights because they have filled heads and beams. Here we agree.
B - note in upper voice must be a half because it has a hollow
notehead and no beam. First note in lower voice has a hollow notehead,
but it cannot be a half because it has a beam. Therefore, it must be
an eight note. I don't see any way in which a half note could be
mistaken for a quarter note in this example.
This is not normal vocal music engraving. This is more typical of piano
music. I've seen this in piano music, and never in vocal music. Were I
singing this, I'd understand what it meant, but it seems an unnecessary
complication. Vocal music engraving traditions stem from everything being
sight read. I'd have to read this twice, or at least stumble over it once
before I realized that it wasn't a half note for the lower voice.
The only case in which a half note could be mistaken for a quarter
note would be in C. I agree that merging heads in C would be totally
unacceptable.
thanks,
Janek
C.pngA.pngB.png
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Re: engraving rules question - voices with merged heads
2011/1/29 James Bailey derhindem...@googlemail.com: Were I singing this, I'd understand what it meant, but it seems an unnecessary complication. (...) W dniu 29 stycznia 2011 22:18 użytkownik Michael Ellis michael.f.el...@gmail.com napisał: I agree with James. (...) 2011/1/29 Keith OHara k-ohara5...@oco.net: [Stone] merges note heads in vocal music (p. 300) but only when they are both filled heads. (...) Thank you all for your answers! I think i'll stick with the tradition then (i.e. not merge different heads) unless the piece gets crowded or other special circumstances arise. Thanks again! Janek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
engraving rules question - voices with merged heads
Hi,
recently i was told that this notation
{ \mergeDifferentlyHeadedOn b'2 \\ { b'8 a' g' f' } }
is not allowed in vocal music (i.e., the noteheads shouldn't be
merged). Is that true?
By the way, if there is a notehead shared by two voices (i.e. with two
stems, up and down), should there be two dots (one dot for each voice)
or one dot? Would one dot be a source of errors (it may look like it
applies only to one voice)?
thanks,
Janek
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